500 or bust??

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whalehunter's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-28

Nuff said.

skbroker's picture
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wow another rumor.  I think we are up to the 1000th rumor in 2 months.  I heard from my mother who has a friend who works for budweiser who has a nephew who works for wells fargo mortgage who know the CFO who just spoke to CEO said that there will be no retentiion.  LOL  

JamesF's picture
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I am pretty sure we won't hear about it this year.  If there is a deal, how could they use any TT numbers other than year end 2008.  I am sticking with ML package for WB and step up in deferred for AGE.  I hope this thread can turn into one full of movie quotes.
 
"silver is down, than call the lone ranger"
"gambling is illegal at Bushwood and I never slice"
"gungagalunga"

troll's picture
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whalehunter wrote:It's been a while. Rumor has it there will be NO deal....
 
Here is a movie quote for you. The Jerk - 1979 with Steve Martin.
 
Navin R. Johnson: Well I'm gonna to go then. And I don't need any of this. I don't need this stuff, and I don't need you. I don't need anything except this. [picks up an ashtray] Navin R. Johnson: And that's it and that's the only thing I need, is this. I don't need this or this. Just this ashtray. And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need. And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need. And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball. And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that's all I need. And that's all I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one - I need this. The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure. And this. And that's all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair. [walking outside] Navin R. Johnson: And I don't need one other thing, except my dog. [dog barks] Navin R. Johnson: I don't need my dog.

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

Just watch, Jan will then run into Feb with no news. I guess these guys figure if they just wait and say and do nothing everyone will just forget about it and their problem will quietly go away. How many weeks has it been ? 12? I lost count. 

troll's picture
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Steady yourself man.

ryedog123's picture
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whalehunter wrote:It's been a while. Rumor has it there will be NO deal....
 
Today I received a reply via email responding to my WIN online question asking Danny (during the conference call) when the retention will be anounced. 
 
The email was suprisingly detailed in that it said that 1. there will be a retention, 2. that I am not alone and that many FAs are concerned about retention, and 3. the decision and announcement on retention is now a main priority and will be announced soon. 
 
The email explained that there were other things that they wanted to get out of the way first.  Namely, shareholder vote and naming of danny as CEO.  Could all be jibberish.  May be that the firm just wants to use calendar year 2008 production to determine retention.  On the bright side, can't see how we wouldn't get a retention based upon the nature of the email.  Thought you all might want to know.   

fritz's picture
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ryedog123 wrote:whalehunter wrote:It's been a while. Rumor has it there will be NO deal....
 
Today I received a reply via email responding to my WIN online question asking Danny (during the conference call) when the retention will be anounced. 
 
The email was suprisingly detailed in that it said that 1. there will be a retention, 2. that I am not alone and that many FAs are concerned about retention, and 3. the decision and announcement on retention is now a main priority and will be announced soon. 
 
The email explained that there were other things that they wanted to get out of the way first.  Namely, shareholder vote and naming of danny as CEO.  Could all be jibberish.  May be that the firm just wants to use calendar year 2008 production to determine retention.  On the bright side, can't see how we wouldn't get a retention based upon the nature of the email.  Thought you all might want to know.   
 
From what I hear not Danny's fault, he has submitted retention proposals twice.  Problem is WFC does not want to pay any..maybe they will give in, but think if more than 1 week of silence ,you have your answer as to who won.

Vet20's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-29

A main priority??
Why couldn't they just communicate with us? If we did that to our clients, we'd be out of business.
To quote: "Tell them what you're going to tell them. Then tell them. Then tell them what you
Told them!"

Vet20's picture
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I love you honey and if anything changes, I'll let you know.

troll's picture
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After the push for FA's to go to managed money (where the money managers the advisors can use don't go to cash)  in the worst market most of us have ever seen -- they would be unwise to use calender yr 2008  that as the watermark for retention imho (unless they want unahappy FA's).  It would be seen as being cheap and reinforce how many reps already feel about banks nickle and dime clients and FA's.

fritz's picture
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Joined: 2006-01-12

they would be unwise to use calender yr 2008  that as the watermark for retention imho (unless they want unahappy FA's)
 I would say use 1999 or 2000..those were my best years. 
 
Are you serious about them not wanting unhappy FA's..I read some stuff on here that makes me wonder how stupid people are.  If they wanted to make you happy they would raise the grid every year, give you a 2% bump up every time you hit a 50K milestone, give you 100% payout during December to help with gift buying etc etc.

Sam Houston's picture
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Go_Long wrote:After the push for FA's to go to managed money (where the money managers the advisors can use don't go to cash)  in the worst market most of us have ever seen -- they would be unwise to use calender yr 2008  that as the watermark for retention imho (unless they want unahappy FA's).  It would be seen as being cheap and reinforce how many reps already feel about banks nickle and dime clients and FA's.
 
If you can't figure out how to go to cash in the firms managed money programs, you have need to stop using managed money.  If you go to another firm on Monday, they will use your 2008 TTM.  Why should WFC do anything different?  There are many advisors who increased there TTM this year.  The retention will come when it comes.  Call your clients.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Sam you miss the point.  The managed accounts got wacked too.
 
PS
I do my call my clients, and yours too.  LOL
 

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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Go_LongNo offense meant, but your reply to Sam conflicts with itself.Are you saying that you dont want to do managed money because they dont go to cash to protect clients when necessary? But that you dont take assets out of money to protect clients because you would lose gross??>>??A little confusing.I'm not a fan of managed money for the reason you suggest. At least not using outside managers. I do managed money with me as the manager. The point about the recruiting firms making offers based on 2008 T-12 is a good one. I dont understand all the debate about whether the firm cares if you are happy or not. Of course they dont. I am not with Wach, but i am with a wire. And they are all the same. The world as we once knew it doesnt exist anymore. And never will. The handwriting is on the wall. The wires are all now banks. And they absolutely dont care about the FA's. All they care about is the ledger, the score, the gross.In 5 years, you wont be able to stay at a wire if you dont do 700k. You will have to either go indie or get out of the biz. The wires want to use the 80/20 rule to their advantage. 80% of their gross comes from 20% of their FA's. They want less FA's aka less overhead, with more business.So i dont understand all the debate about whether they care. Of course they dont.

fritz's picture
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Joined: 2006-01-12

fee based brokers probably not sharp enough to even know how far down they are..Unless the market rallys 2000 points tomorrow, Jan will be a rude awakening.  Than they can multiply that figure by 4 and they will realize they have lost 35% of their gross.  And then when the market breaks down under 8000 and goes down to 6500 or 7000 next year or 2010 the power flush will be the brokers leaving out the back door and looking for another gig (me included).

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

Sam Houston wrote:
 
If you can't figure out how to go to cash in the firms managed money programs, you have need to stop using managed money.  If you go to another firm on Monday, they will use your 2008 TTM.  Why should WFC do anything different?  There are many advisors who increased there TTM this year.  The retention will come when it comes.  Call your clients.

I hope they use 2008 Calendar Year production. I heard today from the home orifice that it will be Jan 15th.

YHWY's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-18

It is always very important to have hope. Hopefully, in addition to "hope" you can additionally hope for change.

Anonymous's picture
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I hope you find help for your bitterness and repressed anger in therapy.

YHWY's picture
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Keep the hope alive! 

Anonymous's picture
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YHWY wrote: Keep the hope alive! 

I thought her name was Kim. Are you having an affair?

YHWY's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-18

Stop blocking my PMs, coward.

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I'd hardly equate blocking your PM's as cowardice. You just don't have anything interesting or useful to say.

albert's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-04

I am told that there will be retention and it will be anounced soon.  However, I have learned in the past 18 months that I do not need to believe all that I am told. (I used to do that). As an AGE guy where we did not ever  even pay front money it will suprise me if we are paid for our business again after having been paid in 2007. Guess  after the huge wealth destruction of the WB situation it will be nice but I do not see it as a good business decision any more than I see the deals as being good business for the buying firms. Never have.
I am concerned about the paperwork that will come along with the retention deal. The AGE retention did not have any non compete. I think a new deal will be less friendly that way. Lots of AGE  folks have money earned by February  and paid in March and will not leave before then. I expect it will be sign or bolt sometime before those payments are due so should see retention news very soon.

Sam Houston's picture
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Go_Long wrote:Sam you miss the point.  The oh so great managed accounts got wacked. Thats what the firm is pushing these days-- you should know that, and the managers don't go to cash.   FA's that did move some client assets out of the managed accounts to cash--well that doesn't generate gross.   The majority of advisors did not increase their TTM in 2008, or saw it trail off after the merger announcement.  Yes the retention will come when it comes, and FA's reception positive/negative will be based on what is offered.  Payouts are going down and client fees are going up.  Give us all another kick in the privates if they want.  And then let the chips fall.    Personally I will hope for the best, but not hold my breath.
 
PS
I do my call my clients, and yours too.  LOL
 
 
There is not one managed program in the AGE system that you cannot do what is best for the client and not take a pay cut doing so, you just aren't thinking hard enough.  I don't recomend wasting your time calling my clients, you need to make sure you survive.  Only partake in activities that will lead to business for yourself.

3rd ID's picture
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Go long, what do you suppose they should use? The best any one could hope for would be Nov 2007 to Oct 2008 or perhaps Dec 2007 to Nov 2008. My t-12 in Sept 08 was about 620k. Ending the year at 565k (production and fees have really dropped). If they want to pay me on 565k, fine. Just send the docs and cut the damn checks already. This is ridiculous. 

whalehunter's picture
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What I see most here missing is that at ML and BAI NO REPS who received a deal after 2004 qualified for the retention. Unless I'm wrong didn't MOST reps get a deal with the AGE merger? Thus not much for the rest if any...

ryedog123's picture
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whalehunter wrote:What I see most here missing is that at ML and BAI NO REPS who received a deal after 2004 qualified for the retention. Unless I'm wrong didn't MOST reps get a deal with the AGE merger? Thus not much for the rest if any...
 
ML wasn't taken over a few years ago.  The guys at ML who received deals after 2004 received upfront money to leave their respective firms and come to ML.  As you know, upfront money to move is approx 2x what any retention deal is going to be.  In addition they signed an 8 year deal.   
 
AGE reps, on the other hand, didn't move to another firm.  We were compensated because of the change in ownership.  We didn't willingly change firms and merely signed a 6 year forgivable loan note.  Now ownership has changed again. 
 
Also, legacy WS reps were given a small retention for the changes they would experience from the WS-AGE merger as well.  So, pretty much everybody from both legacy firms received a retention. 
 
Not saying age reps will get much of a retention.  But if a retention is offered, the age reps will receive something IMHO. 

whalehunter's picture
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ryedog123 wrote:whalehunter wrote:What I see most here missing is that at ML and BAI NO REPS who received a deal after 2004 qualified for the retention. Unless I'm wrong didn't MOST reps get a deal with the AGE merger? Thus not much for the rest if any...
 
ML wasn't taken over a few years ago.  The guys at ML who received deals after 2004 received upfront money to leave their respective firms and come to ML.  As you know, upfront money to move is approx 2x what any retention deal is going to be.  In addition they signed an 8 year deal.   
 
AGE reps, on the other hand, didn't move to another firm.  We were compensated because of the change in ownership.  We didn't willingly change firms and merely signed a 6 year forgivable loan note.  Now ownership has changed again. 
 
Also, legacy WS reps were given a small retention for the changes they would experience from the WS-AGE merger as well.  So, pretty much everybody from both legacy firms received a retention. 
 
Not saying age reps will get much of a retention.  But if a retention is offered, the age reps will receive something IMHO. 
WOW keep drinking the coolaid. Mngmt does not view it this way.

WSxAG's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-23

The level of self-delusion here is amazing. "I had to go through two transitions . . ."   boo-freakin'- hoo. Do you like the company and how it treats you and your clients?  Yes -stay. No-Go. End of story.

Anonymous's picture
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whalehunter wrote: ryedog123 wrote:whalehunter wrote:What I see most here missing is that at ML and BAI NO REPS who received a deal after 2004 qualified for the retention. Unless I'm wrong didn't MOST reps get a deal with the AGE merger? Thus not much for the rest if any...
 
ML wasn't taken over a few years ago.  The guys at ML who received deals after 2004 received upfront money to leave their respective firms and come to ML.  As you know, upfront money to move is approx 2x what any retention deal is going to be.  In addition they signed an 8 year deal.   
 
AGE reps, on the other hand, didn't move to another firm.  We were compensated because of the change in ownership.  We didn't willingly change firms and merely signed a 6 year forgivable loan note.  Now ownership has changed again. 
 
Also, legacy WS reps were given a small retention for the changes they would experience from the WS-AGE merger as well.  So, pretty much everybody from both legacy firms received a retention. 
 
Not saying age reps will get much of a retention.  But if a retention is offered, the age reps will receive something IMHO. 
WOW keep drinking the coolaid. Mngmt does not view it this way.

Produce more then. The management I talk to say otherwise. Of course I produce a lot :)

Gaddock's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

At AGE/WS we are lucky to ewven be here. There isn't going to be a retention package.

BukiRob's picture
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ryedog123 wrote:whalehunter wrote:What I see most here missing is that at ML and BAI NO REPS who received a deal after 2004 qualified for the retention. Unless I'm wrong didn't MOST reps get a deal with the AGE merger? Thus not much for the rest if any...
 
ML wasn't taken over a few years ago.  The guys at ML who received deals after 2004 received upfront money to leave their respective firms and come to ML.  As you know, upfront money to move is approx 2x what any retention deal is going to be.  In addition they signed an 8 year deal.   
 
AGE reps, on the other hand, didn't move to another firm.  We were compensated because of the change in ownership.  We didn't willingly change firms and merely signed a 6 year forgivable loan note.  Now ownership has changed again. 
 
Also, legacy WS reps were given a small retention for the changes they would experience from the WS-AGE merger as well.  So, pretty much everybody from both legacy firms received a retention. 
 
Not saying age reps will get much of a retention.  But if a retention is offered, the age reps will receive something IMHO. 
 
And WS guys under contract got nothing.   Go talk to any former Advest broker who was under contract about what kind of retention bonus they got when ML purchased Advest.... A guy in my office moved to Advest about 5 years ago to take over a relatives book of business.  He got a nice package to move and less than a year later ML purchased Advest...  He got nothing.  Sadly for him, he utterly dispised ML.
 
 
Industry precident is that if you are under a contract you do not participate in retention.  WS brokers under contract did not get retention.  As an AGE broker, if you were doing 400-500k at the time of the merger you could have chosen to take your Base Retention (50%) up front in a 6 year forgivable loan.  If you were doing 400 that means you got a check for $200,000.00 to stay in your seat.  In additon to that you also got a 20% defferred bonus.
A broker doing 400,000 got a total of 280,000 in total retention.  It boggles my mind that AGE  brokers feel they somehow got slighted.  WS paid the highest amount of retention in industry history and yet you guys say you somehow got screwed?
 
I can't really see why Wells would pay AGE brokers anything.  That said,  personally  it matters not to me one way or the other.  My guess is WFC is going to side on industry precident and at best you will get a small amount of defferred bonus but, I would not be surprised if people under contract get nothing.
 
 

Tincup's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-13

I'm under the 6 yr forgiveable loan and I would think with these market conditions little if any will be offered in retention. If they did enhanced payout for a year I feel both parties win... 

fritz's picture
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From what I heard today from WFC there are no plans for retention.

bondking's picture
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Gaddock wrote:At AGE/WS we are lucky to ewven be here. There isn't going to be a retention package.
 
uh, yes there definitely is a retention package.  no later than Jan. 15th, it'll be announced.  no clue how much, but there will be retention.  mgmt is starting to reach out to us and give some answers, just not all the answers

WSxAG's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-23

I've read research reports with more suspense.  Since New's Years is the time for predictions - here's one;
 
Legacy AGE - Less than $350k - No retention. Greater than $351 -750k original retention restored with new timeframe and NON-Compete. $750 and above gets original restored and immediate vesting of deferred $$.
 
WS - See Merrill Package

whartonkiddie's picture
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Joined: 2006-02-18

Pretty funny stuff.

Frankly, for you wirehouse rats, I hope you don't get a thing. Based on my conversations with someone at WS today, that's what will most likely be happening.

For those of you who sit at your desks only hoping to get another WS retention package, you deserve nothing. Be thankful that ALL of your clients have yet to fire you and that you can still sling your POS marked up bond positions to your silly clients. Anyone care to tell your clients about the misguided BS retention packages truly are? They breed conflicts of interest, since you are essentially forbidden from telling your clients the truth about the inner-workings of your truly horrible companies. WS, Merrill, SB, UBS and MS are all teetering on borderline collapse, and you think you need to be handed a 'bonus' to hang around?

I laugh.... hard.

'Where's my retention package?', they cried. 'Any word on the retention package', as they swoon by the branch manager's office.... thinking those useless pieces of trash will have the answers. Har-dee-har, har, har.

Wahhhhhhh.

Big babies. You fellas saw what was happening at your companies and still told clients that all is 'fine with us', since you were paid to sling the company line. Now, your stocks are practically worthless, you have no currency left, and you've gotten what you've deserved.

So, 'management (like they matter) is 'reaching out' to give us some answers'... blah, blah, blah...... and ha, ha, ha.

Saw a WS guy's foreclosure notice in the paper today. Buh-bye broker-rats.

Goooooood day.

skbroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

Buki,
 
    You sounds so bitter about the possibility of legacy AGE FA's getting another retention.  It does not effect you in anyway and not taking money out of your pocket.  You ramble on about AGE legacy guys getting the best retention on the street and we shouldn't be complaining and then you follow that by saying that you don't care.  Of course you care or else you wouldn't be writing a paragraph explaining the details of why we don't deserve one in the first place.  Should all age legacy fa's just shut our mouth and be happy with our first retention?  Would you not want one if you were legacy age?  I doubt it so please shut the fuck up.     

skbroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

Wow, we have a prediction of no retention to small retention to big retention.  No wonder we are so good at picking investments.

mnbondguy's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-13

If you look what the legacy AGE broker have lost in future 401k and deferred comp contributions, plus the hit they have taken on the restricted stock and options that converted to WB stock, I don't think the retention payment they got was enough. 

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

Looks like Whartonkiddie hit the bottle a little early today. Nobody likes a nasty drunk, wharton.

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

look the deal is 250k to 500 is 50%. 500 to 750k is 75% and over 750k is 100%. Problem is most of its going to ISG. The others that got deals will get a partial, but that is all. I guess it will be prorated for them from the last deal they got.

whalehunter's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-28

3rd ID wrote:look the deal is 250k to 500 is 50%. 500 to 750k is 75% and over 750k is 100%. Problem is most of its going to ISG. The others that got deals will get a partial, but that is all. I guess it will be prorated for them from the last deal they got.
OK, really?

AGE Forever's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-23

You are jealous. You just be an unemployed attorney. Happy New year Mr. Bitter

Sam Houston's picture
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whartonkiddie wrote:Pretty funny stuff. Frankly, for you wirehouse rats, I hope you don't get a thing. Based on my conversations with someone at WS today, that's what will most likely be happening. For those of you who sit at your desks only hoping to get another WS retention package, you deserve nothing. Be thankful that ALL of your clients have yet to fire you and that you can still sling your POS marked up bond positions to your silly clients. Anyone care to tell your clients about the misguided BS retention packages truly are? They breed conflicts of interest, since you are essentially forbidden from telling your clients the truth about the inner-workings of your truly horrible companies. WS, Merrill, SB, UBS and MS are all teetering on borderline collapse, and you think you need to be handed a 'bonus' to hang around? I laugh.... hard. 'Where's my retention package?', they cried. 'Any word on the retention package', as they swoon by the branch manager's office.... thinking those useless pieces of trash will have the answers. Har-dee-har, har, har. Wahhhhhhh. Big babies. You fellas saw what was happening at your companies and still told clients that all is 'fine with us', since you were paid to sling the company line. Now, your stocks are practically worthless, you have no currency left, and you've gotten what you've deserved. So, 'management (like they matter) is 'reaching out' to give us some answers'... blah, blah, blah...... and ha, ha, ha. Saw a WS guy's foreclosure notice in the paper today. Buh-bye broker-rats. Goooooood day.
 
It must suck for you to deal with this market and know you are not getting a big check.  Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

nestegg's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-14

can someone explain how you think the prorationg would work let's say you got 100k last time and are due 150k does that mean u would get 50 k since you already got 100

fritz's picture
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nestegg wrote:can someone explain how you think the prorationg would work let's say you got 100k last time and are due 150k does that mean u would get 50 k since you already got 100
 
The calculation is simple, anyone can figure it out..no calculator or math skills needed. "0"

Hank Moody's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-10

I don't understand why people under contract expect a retention bonus. Retention bonuses are used to retain brokers. Existing contracts already retain brokers. 

nestegg's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-14

who is under contract not me but my co and clients have been sold tobtwo banks in a years time we are not even done a the first merger yet

phatbasturd's picture
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Hank Moody wrote: Existing contracts already retain brokers. 

Kinda like the huge surrender charges on those annuities you like to slam people into?

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