2010 Edward Jones Summer Regional meeting

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RealWorld's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Wanted to get some info from some of the guys/gals who have already been to the regional meeting this year. I am about to go this weekend. The place we are going to is  certainly very very low quality. Also my region in terms of people out 0-10 years is increasingly hostile.I guess I just feel a curious as to what was different this year and any experiences that people had. Also did someone say there is an award for new accounts for everyone? I find that really questionable. My new accounts are down this year b/c each time you close an account it takes away a new account for the month/year (how stupid).

navet's picture
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Joined: 2010-02-25

Just got back from my regional meeting. It was worthless. I came out with one good idea and that was from a seg 3 comment outside the meeting. All kinds of talk about recruiting(right!). I guess they'll be needing it. Meetings were all about the 5 step process, boring and redundant. Presentations were rote. Hotel was nice, but of course jones didn't pay for parking or saturday lunch. I know at least three of us seg 2's that have resumes out. Will all most likely switch industries.

B24's picture
B24
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I think we did a region-specific award for all FA's.  It was at the spouses/FA meeting on Day 1, not at the awards dinner.  Pretty hoakie, since msot of the enw accounts by the veterans are just Advisory Solutions acounts for re-positioned assets, not "true" new households.Actually, we have always gone to VERY nice hotels - resort-type destinations around New England.  I can't really complain about that.  But yes, I think the 0-10 crowd (or more likely 2-10 year crowd) is getting increasingly bitter.  Tired of the kool-aide, have seen a few people leave for other firms this year (we have had VERY few leave for other firms in the past few years), and are just plain tired I think.  The 10+ crowd are either happy as clams because they net 200K in bad years and don't have to work very hard, or are lazy, old slobs that barely keep their heads above water grossing 250K on trails and a few maturing bonds each month.

RealWorld's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

I hear you guys on the resort style places, however my region this year is going to a 3 star hotel. I have stayed in the same hotel before and I pricelined it for $65. Whatever.Navet- Man leaving the industry... that is a tough pill to swallow. What is your situation, is there anything I can help with?As far as the meeting, I am almost ready to explode so I hope that things are done very well without the standard BS or someone might get their head ripped off and I might not have a job on Monday.

navet's picture
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Joined: 2010-02-25

Love people, love the intellectual challenge, hate prospecting. These knees wouldn't allow me to door to door even if I was willing. I have a nice 7 figure nestegg and will retire in 5 years no matter what. I just don't see the sense in working this hard just to give my book away when it is just starting to pay off. I can make more money than I'm currently pulling in in a couple of different industries, get better bene's and some time off. I really don't like jones, kool-ade and the born agains in my region. So, this obviously not the place for me. It works for younger people who are good at schmoozing and think $50k is good money. What I've learned about investment management has been invaluable. Unfortunately, none of that was actually taught by jones. It bothers me that jones hardly seems to care what you put peoples money in(within the relative range of mf's, bonds, and recommended stocks), just wants you to gather assets. I wouldn't let 95% of the FA's I've met at Jones touch my money. That being said, I do respect jones history. A nice , conservative middle america house that caters to rural america in a personal manner. It will only get so far using that business model, but it performs that particular function well. But as for me, after some family illness issues I getting ready to draw down, downsise and destress. Like a wise man said, "I've never seen these words on a gravestone: I wish I'd spent more time at the office".

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

We're headed to ours this weekend.  The worst place we've ever stayed has been a hotel in Louisville, KY.  Most people would think it's a great hotel, but once  you've traveled a few times with Jones, you start to recognize good and great hotels.  Ours this year is a brand new one (to Jones and physically), so it should be great.  I think I've been to 9 Summer Regional meetings now.  I always seem to come away with one good idea.  I hate the recruiting stuff.  I've already got about 20 other EDJ guys whose offices I can almost walk to in about 30 minutes.  Enough with the recruiting.  The most interesting thing about the awards banquet is seeing how much alcohol that one table will consume.  It's normally a lot.  I hate the two day format.  Seems like a complete waste of time to drive for 4-5 hours for 8 hours of meetings. When they were three days it was at least a really nice long weekend and you had some free time to relax. I can't wait to hear more about the 5 step process.  I'm really looking forward to that.  (insert sarcastic emoticon here) 

iceco1d's picture
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Navet, what region/area/state are you in?  Feel free to PM me...

xej1984's picture
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hey spiffy,  how many of those 9 summer regionals have you attended as an FA, and how many as a stl observer?your firm's business model is built on constant growth due to canabalism and failure within the industry. .... JUST LIKE every other firm. navet's statement about not trusting his own money with basically any FA within the firm is very telling....but from my years at your firm I'd say if anything those numbers have gone down.  navet seems like the typical 10+ year vet. Pissed off and feeling used and abused.......can you say transfer broker?  

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

I've never been to one as a home office observer.  So, all of them have been as an FA. navet is a new FA who is looking for a reason to hang it up here at Jones.  He's admitted that he's got a million in the bank and is just biding his time in the industry until he can retire or find something else to do until he does retire.  He won't become a transfer broker.  Unless he moves to a bank for some reason.  I don't know much about his money management skills, but I would venture a guess to say that his opinion of the other Jones FAs in his region is more about his own ego than their abilities.  B - I agree that most of the 5-10 year guys in our region are just plain tired.  If you started 10 years ago, you've got bookend financial meltdowns on your record.  Dealing with one of those is bad enough, two would be mind numbing.  We're going on two years and a half years of overall negative returns.  So, if you've been out for 5-7 years, around half of your career has been spent apologizing to clients or hand holding nervous folks while they see their retirement savings try to claw it's way back to what it was before.  We keep getting told that prospecting should be really easy right now with all of the changes in the brokerage industry and the disgruntled clients out there, but I don't believe very many of us are seeing that actually be the case.  If most of those folks are like me, they'd like to take about a 3 month sabbatical.  A week in Tortola or New Zealand is nice, but it's not long enough to fully recharge the batteries.  It's kind of like charging your dead cell phone for 3 minutes.  It'll get things going again, but pretty soon you'll need to recharge again.   

B24's picture
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I don't like the two-day format either.  Too far to drive and bring the family for two days.  Seem to just rush from one thing to another, always just hoping to get out of the meetings.  This year we had one awesome speaker (he was a LTC attorney) who was obviously a professional speaker.  The 5-step process was so useless.  I honestly think half the people at Jones think that Jones invented that process, like it's something revolutionary.  Navet-why would you have joined this industry so late in life as a new/new?  I don't blame you.  I can't imagine being in this industry less than 10 years and retiring (unless you had been hired to work an existing book).  I only know one guy that is doing it well.  Most come and once they realize how hard it will be and how long it will take, leave.  But this one guy actually started at age 58, and got to segment 4 in about 2.5 years.  He averages about 30K per month (he's 5 years in now), and started totally from scratch.  He just has a very good work ethic, a very good process, is very diligent and responsible, and is actually one of the few people I know at Jones that I would trust my money with.  He spent like 25 years in the insurance industry (none of it in sales) in operations, accounting, etc.  He worked at Aetna or Hartford or something.

Kaner's picture
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Joined: 2010-06-17

Spaceman,You took the thoughts right out of my head.  I keep telling myself I am not going to take the crappy side of this job just to throw in the towel in time for some other guy to reap all the benefits.  Though I am not the "5-10 year guy" you mentioned (I'm out 3 years), I feel the grind.  I love the job but need some time to get my mind fresh.  Some days the phone weighs a ton and I don't feel like going to see prospects.  3 months doing anything else would be great, it just wouldn't pay the bills.   Hearing of 5-10 year guys feeling this way is not reassuring.  What positive ways do you deal with these thoughts? As for the regional...I am indifferent toward going to this one.  This will be my fourth but the first which I am not looking forward to attending.  I am in a very mature region (Seg 5 is the largest segment.) So, you would think there is a lot of good things to be learned.  It seems to me most of the vets who do show up are merely there to socialize with the other long-timers. The no-shows have "done their share of summer regionals."   

RealWorld's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Spaceman- How many assets did you take over?

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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RealWorld wrote:Spaceman- How many assets did you take over?Not enough.  It started at about $9 mil, but about $2-2.5 mil transferred out or moved to another branch in the first couple of months.  It was just enough that I knew I wasn't going to put a $0 on the board in a month, but not enough that I could live off the the trails and the bond calls. 

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-14

navet wrote:...I have a nice 7 figure nestegg and will retire in 5 years no matter what...iceco1d wrote:Navet, what region/area/state are you in?  Feel free to PM me...How funny Ice. You're DKing a Jones guy onlline! Get that 7 figure ACAT paperwork started early.navet wrote:Love people, love the intellectual challenge, hate prospecting. These knees wouldn't allow me to door to door even if I was willing... Navet - Think about it, pray about it and make the best decision for you. Good luck and God bless

Fooled No More's picture
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Joined: 2009-08-14

Typical Regional:  (Segment = meeting/ dinner)1.  Cheerleading segment  (The firm is the greatest firm in the world)2.  Smoozing Segment   (I Bleed Green and I will help the RL any way possible)3.  Growth Segment  (We need to grow to gain scale and lower costs!! Humm $1300/month P&L charge for Computers??)                    Did I buy another new computer this month?4.  Drinking Segment (Whoooo hooo, Free drinks!)5.  Hotel Room Segment (FA telling Wife how much he hates most of the FA in the Region)6.  Dinner/Awards Segment (Great I get a plaque for production, nic nac for mentoring and upset stomach from the new guy telling me "He got a guy" who has a million and he is about close the deal and move segments.7.   Drive home Segment (Think about trying to find another million dollars this month to keep alive and meet production goals.  8  Monday Segment: (Right back to the Grind)9.  Wake up Segment:  (After 4 of the above meetings)  (Build a business for yourself and not for someone else)10:  Easy Math Segment:   (using 10M for example: Bigger numbers = bigger difference)                                          10 Million @ 1% = 100k  (90% pay out) = 90K net                                         10 Million @ 1.35 =135K (40% pay out)=  54K net (81K -- disappears, who took it?)90K vs 54K  (Prettty easy choice)  ----If you this is how you run your own business, you might want to do something else                                                     --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

RealWorld's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Holy Crap Fooled no more... that actually may be the most genuis post I have read on here. Pretty much got it right in terms of how the regional meeting is going to go. Spaceman - That is probably what made you make it here. Got enough to not commit suicide but not enough to not work your #!$ off. Good for you.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Fooled - Your depiction of a typical Jones summer regional meeting is pretty funny.  Also, accurate.  I really hate to get this conversation started, but I'm going to anyway.  You're math, while correct, isn't technically accurate.  I'll give you props for at least getting the numbers right.  Here's where I disagree:  Do you even get to keep $90K if you're only grossing $100K at an indy?  I'm not sure you do, but I'm sure someone will correct me pretty quickly.  But let's just assume you do.  What do you spend on your business out of that $90K.  Rent, technology, assistant (maybe), postage, marketing, insurance, etc.  Now, I realize you're not going to spend the whole $36,000 ($90K-54K) that you got paid out above what the Jones guy did, but you're certainly not going to take home $90K.  The question then is how  much do you take home and how much extra work do you put into your business for that extra money.    I'm not arguing the merits of Jones vs indy.  I am fully aware that there are some advantages and disadvantages to both.  But if you're going to do the math, at least make it an apples to apples comparison. 

LockEDJ's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-06

Fuzzy math.you are forgetting some simple pieces. Like the 10 to 25 bp the BD takes off the top, and that's before the 10% haircut (and I'm not so sure you're getting 90% payout if your history is $120000 a year). So you are netting a whole bunch less. And I run my office about as cheaply as you can, and technology, rent, association fees or whatever cost over $1500 a month. Minimum.So your $90K just became more like $81K out of the gate, and you haven't paid the $18000 a year nut to keep the doors open. All told, you are jumping ship for the difference between $54K and ... $64? And one last thing: if you were doing $10K in advisory solutions, there's absolutely ZERO chance you'll get a 100% rate of success bringing business with you ... OOPS. Now you're making less at your new office. Good luck with that.

LockEDJ's picture
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duplicate comment.

gethardgetraw's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-22

Why make $64k when you can make $54k good point.

gethardgetraw's picture
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From: http://forums.registeredrep.com/forums/rookies-trainees/gethardgetraws-2009-2010-cold-calling-journal?page=10#comment-2242461navet wrote:Just what I would be looking for. Some 20 something who doesn't know sh-t, calling me wasting my time. Go somewhere for 10 years and get some experience junior. The only money you're going to get is a few "I feel soory for the little prick" dollars. Then:navet wrote:... These knees wouldn't allow me to door to door even if I was willing. ... I just don't see the sense in working this hard just to give my book away when it is just starting to pay off. I... So, this obviously not the place for me. ... It works for younger people  Navet, you're a tool. And you failed.

fedup's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-16

The point was not fully illistrated... The 1% net is after the B/d charge. Office expenses are running about 1500.00 mth or 18k year. With full time assistant  they are 53k year.  Going back to the the original example of 90k minus the 18k in expenses leaces 72k in gross profit.  Allow 15-18k for federal taxes and  8k in state taxes it leaves a single independent with 46k after taxes. Compare that to EDJ 54 minus 14k in Fed taxes and 6k in state taxes leaves the w2 employee at about 34k in after tax income.  Also what you have to remember the independent can defer  around 15,500 in 401k and additional 15-18k in company p/s match That puts his retirement contribution to 30,500.00. lowers his gross profit from 72k to 42k. Now you have less in takes and you net net income far exceeds w2 employee.  My self I actually only have 15,500.00 in taxable income my other income comes as dividends. (taxed at much lower rate. I defer all of my w2 income and have a 25% ps mathc. I put 32500.00 in retirement last year. I still had profit which is now sitting in by business account as profit and is MY equity. Not a firms equity. Hands down you do net net more after appling the tax advantages of self emlpoyment as indy

navet's picture
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Joined: 2010-02-25

Get-hard??? Is that wishful thinking junior? You're a little young for viagra. Was successful before you were born. This is a supplement to my income. I can leave when I choose and still have a six figure income.

LockEDJ's picture
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fedup wrote:The point was not fully illistrated... The 1% net is after the B/d charge. Office expenses are running about 1500.00 mth or 18k year. With full time assistant  they are 53k year.  Going back to the the original example of 90k minus the 18k in expenses leaces 72k in gross profit.  Allow 15-18k for federal taxes and  8k in state taxes it leaves a single independent with 46k after taxes. Compare that to EDJ 54 minus 14k in Fed taxes and 6k in state taxes leaves the w2 employee at about 34k in after tax income.  Also what you have to remember the independent can defer  around 15,500 in 401k and additional 15-18k in company p/s match That puts his retirement contribution to 30,500.00. lowers his gross profit from 72k to 42k. Now you have less in takes and you net net income far exceeds w2 employee.  My self I actually only have 15,500.00 in taxable income my other income comes as dividends. (taxed at much lower rate. I defer all of my w2 income and have a 25% ps mathc. I put 32500.00 in retirement last year. I still had profit which is now sitting in by business account as profit and is MY equity. Not a firms equity. Hands down you do net net more after appling the tax advantages of self emlpoyment as indyAgain, your whole point is that you can make sooooo much more as an independent. The fact is, you cannot. Even you are restating that the difference is between 46 and 34K - and that assumes that you were able to transition 100% of your assets. No reasonable person would chance his whole world on that marginal assumption. Read your original post: you asked where the difference between 90K and 54K might be? Well, it sure as sh!t isn't a $46K differential now is it?Which is exactly the point I was making. And for GetHard, let me reiterate: no reasonable person would chance his whole world on that marginal assumption.

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-14

are you saying LockEDJ is not a reasonable person or the spread was MUCH more enticing?

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B24
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LockEDJ wrote:Fuzzy math.you are forgetting some simple pieces. Like the 10 to 25 bp the BD takes off the top, and that's before the 10% haircut (and I'm not so sure you're getting 90% payout if your history is $120000 a year). So you are netting a whole bunch less. And I run my office about as cheaply as you can, and technology, rent, association fees or whatever cost over $1500 a month. Minimum.So your $90K just became more like $81K out of the gate, and you haven't paid the $18000 a year nut to keep the doors open. All told, you are jumping ship for the difference between $54K and ... $64? And one last thing: if you were doing $10K in advisory solutions, there's absolutely ZERO chance you'll get a 100% rate of success bringing business with you ... OOPS. Now you're making less at your new office. Good luck with that.Can you elaborate on that comment?

LockEDJ's picture
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B24 wrote:LockEDJ wrote:Fuzzy math.you are forgetting some simple pieces. Like the 10 to 25 bp the BD takes off the top, and that's before the 10% haircut (and I'm not so sure you're getting 90% payout if your history is $120000 a year). So you are netting a whole bunch less. And I run my office about as cheaply as you can, and technology, rent, association fees or whatever cost over $1500 a month. Minimum.So your $90K just became more like $81K out of the gate, and you haven't paid the $18000 a year nut to keep the doors open. All told, you are jumping ship for the difference between $54K and ... $64? And one last thing: if you were doing $10K in advisory solutions, there's absolutely ZERO chance you'll get a 100% rate of success bringing business with you ... OOPS. Now you're making less at your new office. Good luck with that.Can you elaborate on that comment?My bone of contention is that if you had $10MM at Jones in fee-based business, you obviously can't transition all $10MM. So you probably are talking about getting $8MM in assets, which is about average. At $8MM, by time you're done paying the BD ($80k *.9 = 72K) and your monthly nut ($18K) you barely are making the same as Jones. And that's making some incredible assumptions (80% transition is normal, but not every BD gives 90% payouts on that sort of a T12). The real elaboration is this - that you need to be sure you have some acorns set aside when you go AWOL. Sometimes posters paint this picture of independence  ... oh, you're only making $54000 when the indy's are making $90000 on the same business. It doesn't exactly translate that way.

Madman's picture
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Joined: 2010-02-06

Please tell me that you guys are making more than what the numbers are that are being used?  $34K-64K?  How long have you been in the business?  I'm not judging I'm asking as a newb trying to figure out what people are "actually" making out there especially in the first couple of years. 

navet's picture
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Joined: 2010-02-25

Madman, there are three things people always lie about: 1. How much money they make; 2. How smart their kids are; 3. How big their d-ck is. 

LockEDJ's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-06

? Madman, the whole conversation was based on an arbitrary starting point of having $10MM in Advisory Solutions. I'm guessing there isn't 15 EDJ FA's in all of NYS that had that much in fee-based business at the end of 2009.  

Advisor238's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-25

I've watched 5 people leave our region and either go independent or to a wirehouse in the past 18 months. I've kept up with what percentage of their assets they took with them, and it appears out of these cases, most of the FA's only took about 40 to 60% of their book. I don't know what the average is, but this is what I have witnessed in our region. I have never seen anyone in our area leave the firm and take 80% of their book with them.

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Thanks Lock.  I see what you're saying.  I also look at some of the numbers that indies post on here with some skeptacism.  Specifically, I don't understand how you can run an indy shop with 20-25K in expenses.  I guess it's possible if you work out of your house with no assistant, and don't include a lot of stuff.  But you're not gonna do a heck of a lot of production that way.I have looked at an indy setup, and figured at 250K production, taking home about 65%.  I could significantly increase that if my production goes up, but only until about 400-450K production, then another staff member might be needed.

LockEDJ's picture
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Advisor238 wrote:I've watched 5 people leave our region and either go independent or to a wirehouse in the past 18 months. I've kept up with what percentage of their assets they took with them, and it appears out of these cases, most of the FA's only took about 40 to 60% of their book. I don't know what the average is, but this is what I have witnessed in our region. I have never seen anyone in our area leave the firm and take 80% of their book with them.With an EDJ book, it's not a question of what percentage moves; it's a question of what portion of the book has value in the independent channel. What to do with the loyal client that sends you $1000 a month to spread among five funds? The ticket charges alone makes them useless. So if an independent runs out at 60% of their book, they've probably scored nearly a 100% victory of clients that make any sense. The average industry wide is close to 80%. I'd bet that the average - among targeted clients - is pretty close to that number. Good luck to the newbie with all those wonderful DCAs and muni-bond/A share VA books, though.

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Joined: 2009-07-14

I think the main point of going indy is not the conversion rate of the book or the percentage increase of the grid. I personally think it is the freedom from "shedding" the book which makes everything else seem so much better and in actuality it probably is.

RealWorld's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Seriously when I think about going INDY it isnt about my personal greed to make more and more that will happen no matter if I stay or go. It is to not have to deal with the steady stream of BS that flows green. Higher expectations, summer regionals, field training, new broker takes over 50 million and gets his d!#$ sucked.... that is what keeps me interested. For me it is just a matter if all that BS becomes too much.

LockEDJ's picture
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I've done well; no need to clarify that point. But I would hesitate for anyone to go independent because of the money because it really isn't there. Like RW says, there's a ton of reasons but they damn well better be worth the uncertainty, the worry, and the loss of at least one if not two months of income. And the immense amount of work. Almost everyone knows me as a type-A guy, a workaholic. But the last two months nearly killed me.It was worth it for me, but I honestly think I had it timed pretty darn good. I would advise caution to others and really good motivation.  

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-14

I get the impression from your pre-move comments vs your post-move comments that you had no idea how difficult the two month+ transition would be. Congrats on digging in deep and pulling it off! Reward yourself when things finally get in place and the chaos slows down.

LockEDJ's picture
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True enough ND, true enough. ... [edit]I have a mini-vacation planned for NYC/the North Fork for the holiday weekend. Boy do I need it. 

Roadhard's picture
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Wow I've been off the treads for over six months...glad to hear that the regional meetings at Jones haven't changed much!  I've been indy for over three years now after being at Jones for 14 years. I only recruit for my own business...I only answer to my OSJ....oh that's me!Listen Spiff is right about the numbers...you have contract fee's...bonding...Error issurance ect.But don't think you can't lose those advisory accounts at Jones...I've taken some from you guys already.  Plus I can keep stocks, bonds, ETF.s, Partnerships, Private Reits and most mutual funds in my own SAM accounts.If you are thinking about pulling the plug at Jones...get your ducks in a row.  But please don't think you are going to find the garden of eden in Indy world.  If you're not enjoying this business...then do something else and enjoy your life.Roadhard Lives!

Magician's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-19

You make more as an indy.  Wait till you file your taxes Lock, you'll be pleasantly surprised.You can run an indy (even RIA) office VERY cheaply, even not working from your home.  Jones spends a lot of money they don't need to.B24, you have talked about how straightforward the P&L is at Jones.  And it is.  However, the costs don't line up with real world expenses.  A true business owner nickels and dimes that stuff.I have a four person office that costs me half of what my two-person office at Jones cost me, and it is in a more affluent area in a busy office park.

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Joined: 2010-02-05

If you are into convenience and not taking chances then Jones would be the place. From a true business perspective  Magician is spot on.. It is an absolute no contest for an indy vs a wirehouse or Jones.  Jones is nice place to be comfortable and get pampered while the hungry elephant eats the steak and leaves the sides. There are a couple of points about people at Jones (myself included) 1. When you are new...You have to make it...come hell or high water2. If/When you do make it..SEG 4 or 5 you are so burned out..that the thought of change scares the crap out of you3. The firm continues to reinforce that idea because they know how to stroke your ego..you're now a veteran. You can now have the "opportunity" to give back in hopes of a large partnership allocation(which is so political) and your family is spoiled by the Jones vacations.4. You forget about the actual business decision of the fact that "YOU" had to do most of not all of the work to get this business off the ground (I give credit where credit is due) using the backing of Jones' name and marketing materialOnce you're to that point and say you have 40-50 million grossing 350-450k the math of being indy is huge. Most Jones reps don't have two boa's at that level... So let's talk some approximate numbers for the heck of itYou have 50mm you take 70% which is what I took.. 35 million in AUM you can get 1/2 fee based the other stays transactional ( you charge 120bps avg on F/based)and you make 60 bps on your transactional stuff. 210,000 f/b +105,000 transactions 315,000 gross 90% payout 283,500 -90,000 assistant+taxes+rent etcAround here a decent BOA makes 35k+18k rent/utitlies+30k taxes+7k ticket charges e/o fees etc..Here's how you get around the taxable income issue that you cannot do as an employee$16,500 401k, $25,500 profit sharing, 70-80k cash balance pension (done by actuaries I'm mid 30's) in retirement every year $110-120k90k business deductions+other stuff like mileage business meals etc..but even skipping that out of the $193,000I took home I was only taxed on 73-83k and I am putting away a milliion every 8.5 years..and I own it! At jones grossing 350-400 means I have a taxable income w/o 401k of 130-145. Assuming you max the 401k b/c your not netting enough to do deferred comp, ( 200k+ to participate) means you are forced to do after tax savings?(Great!!) The point here is control I can control how much income I make from 73k-193k impossible as an employee for the most part. You can depreciate many things or write them off.. The tax advantages are HUGE!!I wouldn't mess around with being indy unless you have assets more than 10-15 million. The numbers make better sense for someone with a larger book instead of just 10 million. If you are at that point I wouldn't  change unless you had a couple of other people coming with you to split costs and an assistant.It's funny watching the people who are at Jones trying to defend a business argument based on emotions and comfort and not logic. I have respect for a personal decision to stay, but please don't fool yourself about it being logical.  Most people who start businesses want control of their own destiny. What is so ironic about the path at Jones is eventually you are taught that having all of that control again ( like you had doorknocking) is really not worth the effort. This is because you have now "arrived". You have arrived alright... to the place that Jones wants you to be..Worn out, tired, lacking creativity, and in a snare that is hard to break free. Not to be taken the wrong way but it is sad to look bad to see how caught up I was in the company culture...It's crazy it's done on purpose and I hope more people really take a good hard honest look at thier career.  I wish someone would have sat me down as a business person and said. Look here it is all the facts no B/S. Franklin T-chart this baby and tell me what you come up with...

BigCheese's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Now that is the post Spiff and B ought to print out and laminate. The other side, the one where you look at things truly objectively. I couldn't agree more. Out 4 years, I had my best year ever two years ago and this year looks like I might eclipse it. You glossed over something very important...You own your biz and you can sell it.I am currenlty negotiating a buyout of an indy FA who has 70M AUM. He grossed 500K and is looking for 1M. LP or ownership. Hands down its the best ROI out there, I'll take ownership anytime.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

I don't think B24 and I have participated in this indy vs. Jones conversation thus far.  I don't disagree that being indy has some advantages over EDJ.  I don't believe I've ever argued that point.  I don't believe B has either.  He's very open and clear about how he feels on the indy vs. EDJ discussion.  And I don't believe he's 100% pro-Jones.    So, Cheesey, how about you quit trying to put words in my mouth? 

BigCheese's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

So, Cheesey, how about you quit trying to put words in my mouth?  Spiffy-Why such an angry overtone? I just suggested you print and laminate. That way you could readi it without editing...if that constitiutes putting words into your mouth my sincerest apologies.Silly me...I thought you had the ability to form your own sentences...

RealWorld's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Holy crap, let me sidebar this Indy vs Ejones argument. (somehow I feel like we have had this debate 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 times) ...My God - my summer regional was very miserable this year. I am frankly disappointed in how it was set up. For those of you who went was your hotel/resort a cheaper version of the the last few years? I personally really let me review eat about the regional. We didn't accomplish much. a. 30% of time talking about recruitingb. 25% of time getting products pitched by wholesalersc. 20% of time watching video from home office or listening to their speakers.d. 15% of time listening to some idiot ass talk about something he clearly doesn't understand.e. 10% of the time getting great information from really good vets, as well as talking strategy,etc.  

BigCheese's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Imagine how much money the firm would save if they just had webex's. If every FA saved 90% of the headaches and got 10% of the good stuff...maybe a higer bonus bracket or bonus...Hey maybe they'll give you guys LP for going to summer proproganda train.Spiff would be happy...somethin for nothin. AAAAhhh the Edward Jones regionals....Sure do miss them. I remember when I thought they were a vacation....

navet's picture
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Joined: 2010-02-25

It was the first jones meeting I ever went to that I didn't get a good idea. I did get one outside of the meeting, but I get more than that every day at this site.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

RealWorld wrote:Holy crap, let me sidebar this Indy vs Ejones argument. (somehow I feel like we have had this debate 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 times) ...My God - my summer regional was very miserable this year. I am frankly disappointed in how it was set up. For those of you who went was your hotel/resort a cheaper version of the the last few years? I personally really let me review eat about the regional. We didn't accomplish much. a. 30% of time talking about recruitingb. 25% of time getting products pitched by wholesalersc. 20% of time watching video from home office or listening to their speakers.d. 15% of time listening to some idiot ass talk about something he clearly doesn't understand.e. 10% of the time getting great information from really good vets, as well as talking strategy,etc.Funny that you said that you needed to sidebar the indy vs EDJ conversation when it was the actually the sidebar.  You're just getting us back on track.  Our venue was one of the better ones we've had.  New hotel, great area, lots for us to do.  The downside is that it's only a 2 day meeting, which doesn't lead to very much time for anything of any consequence to be discussed.  I didn't bring much home from it as far as new ideas go.  I did bring back a realization that FAST is the way the firm is headed and if you're not on board, you're going to be a dinosaur.   There was also a direct correlation between the big producers and FAST adopters.  My big takeaway was to get more involved with that tool.  Quickly.  The two day meeting format is a waste of time.  They should put the firm update online for viewing before the meeting.  Anyone who really cares about it, already knows how the firm is doing.  They put that info on Jonesnet all over the place.  We spent an hour of an 8 hour meeting doing nothing but intros.  You know, it seems like a waste of time to meet the new people.  And the vets already know each other.  Let's just skip that and talk about something more meaningful.  We get weekly updates on technology from Vinny Ferrari in our inbox, so skip that.  I don't need to hear about recruiting.  The wholesalers don't need an hour to do their presentation.  1/2 hour tops.  Not one discussion about the changes in minimum expectations.  That would have been a great topic to cover.  It would have been nice to have the RL explain it some more and let us ask questions.  The one that got me was the compliance session.  Shades of Gray?  Are you kidding me?  My kids could have figured out that both of those folks did something wrong.  How about making us think next year?  My final gripe - The Pioneer award.  Why do we give out an award for keeping your job for 12 months?  OK, I'm done.   

Greenbacks2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-03

Do you have to go to the regional meetings?  

BigCheese's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

The Pioneer Award... Looking for gold in all the wrong places....

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

That would be the Ted Jones Prospecting Award. 

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