Why not become a bank rep ?

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Joe2121's picture
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I am weighing different options from ML, SB, EJ, and a few banks. I kind of like the options available the banks, but it seems vets bash a long term bank career. Any ideas why ?

Joe2121's picture
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Ok. Well if a bank rep comes from a background in which prospecting was a must, wouldnt it be a glorious match ?

snaggletooth's picture
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How many promises do they make to you that never come to fruition?  100%?

Joe2121's picture
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I have no clue, I didnt take the job yet. Just getting ideas. If they pay you 35% of gross for the rest of your career and that is all they give you, what is wrong with that ?

snaggletooth's picture
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I know you have no clue.  It was a rehetorical question. 
 
If 35% of gross is all you ever want and you have no other aspirations, then you'll be a perfect fit for the bank...go for it. 

Joe2121's picture
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Isnt that the payout at Jones ?

babbling looney's picture
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Joe2121 wrote:Isnt that the payout at Jones ?
 

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MoMoney's picture
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Look on the bright side, theres plenty of room for advancement in the big banks.Also,when you tell someone your an adviser somewhere like Wachovia or BOA you automatically have credibility. 99% of people trust employees of internationally known banks.If you were starving would you go to Earls Hamburgers and Stuff or Burger King ? You'd go with what you know.

Vin Diesel's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-18

go to work at a bank if you want to make $ and have a high quality life. go to a wirehouse if you wanna struggle and have a big ego.

Gordon Gekko's picture
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Every fc I know who went to BAC has left because it sucked. Granted, that is only three fcs but it is still 100%. I hear WB has a better setup at the branch level.

Joe2121's picture
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Do you guys have any opinion on JP Morgan Chase ?

Gordon Gekko's picture
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they might buy out WB, no clue about their brokerage.

snaggletooth's picture
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MoMoney wrote:Look on the bright side, theres plenty of room for advancement in the big banks.Also,when you tell someone your an adviser somewhere like Wachovia or BOA you automatically have credibility. 99% of people trust employees of internationally known banks.If you were starving would you go to Earls Hamburgers and Stuff or Burger King ? You'd go with what you know.
 
If I was starving, I'd go to Mexican restaurants and have chips and salsa and water all day long.
 
People won't just trust you because you're at a bank that is internationally known.  I've heard from countless people recently that want an independent advisor because they don't trust the Merrill guys or the UBS folks or this or that.  Credibility does not come "automatically" at all in this business.  You earn your credibility.  People aren't happy with the banks right now either.

Broker24's picture
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Joe2121 wrote:Isnt that the payout at Jones ?
 
No, you mostly get 40% , plus proftability bonus as you become profitable.  As you get over, say 300K in production, your payout (due to bonus) will rise.  Over 1mm in production, you're looking at 55%+.
 
It is basically the same as all the other wirehouses and regionals.  Depending on production levels, we are right in the middle of the pack (though every firm has different payout structures, bonus plans, etc.).

MoMoney's picture
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snaggletooth wrote:MoMoney wrote:Look on the bright side, theres plenty of room for advancement in the big banks.Also,when you tell someone your an adviser somewhere like Wachovia or BOA you automatically have credibility. 99% of people trust employees of internationally known banks.If you were starving would you go to Earls Hamburgers and Stuff or Burger King ? You'd go with what you know.
 
If I was starving, I'd go to Mexican restaurants and have chips and salsa and water all day long.
 
People won't just trust you because you're at a bank that is internationally known.  I've heard from countless people recently that want an independent advisor because they don't trust the Merrill guys or the UBS folks or this or that.  Credibility does not come "automatically" at all in this business.  You earn your credibility.  People aren't happy with the banks right now either.Ive actually been to Mexico, and they do it better than American restaurants.Notice I said "99%" of people and mentioned the big banks that are instantly recognizable.I used the term "credibility" to illustrate the difference between someone who works at Office ABC over on 456 Street and someone who works at BOA etc. There is definitely a difference when it comes to name recognition and perception. People have a general understanding that BOA MORE THAN LIKELY has higher standards in regards to who works for them.My point is that most people are not as well versed in what makes a good adviser etc. Alls they know is that they want to park their money with someone they can trust....another words the bank. I know business itself is not automatic, but when you have an advertising juggernaut like BOA doing most the work, the foot traffic tends to be primed.

snaggletooth's picture
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MoMoney wrote: snaggletooth wrote:MoMoney wrote:Look on the bright side, theres plenty of room for advancement in the big banks.Also,when you tell someone your an adviser somewhere like Wachovia or BOA you automatically have credibility. 99% of people trust employees of internationally known banks.If you were starving would you go to Earls Hamburgers and Stuff or Burger King ? You'd go with what you know.
 
If I was starving, I'd go to Mexican restaurants and have chips and salsa and water all day long.
 
People won't just trust you because you're at a bank that is internationally known.  I've heard from countless people recently that want an independent advisor because they don't trust the Merrill guys or the UBS folks or this or that.  Credibility does not come "automatically" at all in this business.  You earn your credibility.  People aren't happy with the banks right now either.Ive actually been to Mexico, and they do it better than American restaurants.Notice I said "99%" of people and mentioned the big banks that are instantly recognizable.I used the term "credibility" to illustrate the difference between someone who works at Office ABC over on 456 Street and someone who works at BOA etc. There is definitely a difference when it comes to name recognition and perception. People have a general understanding that BOA MORE THAN LIKELY has higher standards in regards to who works for them.My point is that most people are not as well versed in what makes a good adviser etc. Alls they know is that they want to park their money with someone they can trust....another words the bank. I know business itself is not automatic, but when you have an advertising juggernaut like BOA doing most the work, the foot traffic tends to be primed.
 
I work at a place like "456 Street".  People don't have a problem trusting us.  You must be drinking the kool-aid. 
 
I think you assumptions are a little off.  "People have a general understanding that BOA MORE THAN LIKELY has higher standards in regards to who works for them."  I have gone the same background checks that a BOA guy has.  What makes their standards any better compared to anyone else?
 
"My point is that most people are not as well versed in what makes a good adviser etc".  Do you know the answer to this question?  Don't you think that's a little subjective?
 
"Notice I said "99%" of people".  Did you take a poll?

MoMoney's picture
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Your starting with that "Kool Aid" garbage and Im not going there.Also if you need me to spell out the concept of "perception" then this debate is over before it even started.

renewed's picture
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Joe2121 wrote:I am weighing different options from ML, SB, EJ, and a few banks. I kind of like the options available the banks, but it seems vets bash a long term bank career. Any ideas why ?I read this site from time to time, but never post...unless I think I can actually help. First, as far as why vets bash banks, keep in mind that these "vets" are taking time from their day to post messages on an online forum. The vets that I know and respect probably do not know this website exists--they got to be successful and respectable by not wasting their time on this crap. What you need to realize is that it doesn't matter which of the above firms or banks you go with, your success depends more on your attitude and your situation. You can walk into a great situation (good book, good assistant, etc) at a terrible firm and make money and love life. Conversely you can end up at one of "Fortune's Top 100 Companies to Work For" but have a miserable situation--working from your house door-knocking neighborhoods in the summer heat that have been hammered by other reps in your town for years. A bank may have great investment clients and be very supportive of their FA. Or, you might be forced to compete with the Branch Manager to get money into investments and not into deposits.That's why your attitude comes into play. There is no perfect firm or situation, so you have to determine what makes you happy and go for it. You will also have to decide how you define success. Our industry will pay you based on sales, not client satisfaction, retention, portfolio quality, diversification, or asset allocation. That's why some of the FAs that firms recognize as "successful" are just good salesman. That goes back to the vets that I look up to. They are the rare breed that care a great deal about clients and do the right thing even when they don't get paid. They put in the long hours, ask for referrals, and manage their own time and finances well. Most of the FAs I look up to happen to have started in pretty good situations--book, office, etc--and that's why they're still around. I have been with a few different firms, including banks. The main advice I would give you is to dig deep into the fine print these firms are providing, and find out the specifics of the position they are providing. Will I take over a book, or office? What's the make-up of the investments in the book (A-shares, C-shares, Managed money)? What are your expectations of me? How am I expected to gather new clients? Where can I go from here--will I have to move to get a real promotion (to St Louis or NY)? There are tons of other questions and areas you should be concerned with in terms of going to a bank. In general, be aware that you will not make them as much money as other things they offer to their clients (loans, checking accts, credit cards, etc). As someone else mentioned, though, the likelihood of moving into salaried management is higher at a bank. Plus the benefits tend to be a little better (personal experience). I will add that in my experience at a bank your payout per transaction will almost always be lower, but you should be doing more transactions. AND your payout will be what your actually getting paid. For instance someone said the payout at Ed Jones is 40%...but then they take out national advertising (that may have changed recently), your share of office expenses (not sure of the phone/postage breakdown, I think that changed recently too), and your own expenses involved in finding customers--chamber, rotary, toastmasters, client appreciation dinners. I would also pay close attention to the people you are interviewing with when the question of turnover comes up. Some firms reward recruiters or reps for "firm growth" so they may dance around the issue. A good friend of mine was trying to break into the industry a few years ago and the hiring Manager actually took him out to dinner with the sole purpose of convincing him he couldn't make it...he is now recognized as a leader in his office and just successfully completed his CFP (definitely one of the "rare breed"). You also need to find out as much of the specifics as you can about particular product payout and availability. I could go on and on, but I hope I made it clear you need to do your homework before you accept a position. Remember when you sign with a firm that's a CONTRACT you're signing.

BACFA's picture
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I've been a bank broker for most of my career, now I'm at BOA.  Unfortunately, the bank FAs deserve the bad rap because for many years, moving a CD into an annuity was the easiest sale out there.  That type of transactional business, especially at a larger bank, is difficult to do now. 
But as much as I dislike banks for veterans, I think it's a great place to start a career.  The primary goal of any new FA is to gather clients and assets and the banks are, without doubt, the fastest way to do it.  Yes, you have to deal with dumb bank stuff (helping branches with checking accounts) but you will NEVER need to do a seminar or send out mailers.
 

In terms of perception, it doesn't matter for veteran brokers because they have the skill and knowledge to overcome a firm's reputation (good, bad, or unknown).  However, for a rookie, it makes a difference

rightway's picture
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 There are pro's and con's with every platform.  I started at a bank ing the flow of clients and money without really prospecting.  I left after several years because they did not have the resources to handle more complex client needs.  I like my path of building at the bank and leaving once I had a business.  I went to ML and love it.

Crystal's picture
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You will not enjoy being a bankrep. It is KMart investing. You are SO limited in what you can sell and the bank SHAVES your commissions on annuities and then pays them out a percentage per quarter. They are making interest on YOUR money. For example: an annuity pays 7% to the bank. The bank then will pay you .285 of 4%. This commission is paid out 1% per quarter. AMAZING!

You will be doing alot of work for bankers who are on salary. You will be on commission. You will train them, make joint calls with them. Nothing like two people doing the work one person can do. You are doing their work for them. They get paid a commission on top of the salary they are making. Bankers can work the straight 7-8 hour day and take days off, weekends, and vacations. You will not be doing this. You will be busting your A from 7am to 8pm when the last teller leaves- 6 days a week and with NO time off and with no vacation. Because you will STARVE if you do!

You may be given multiple banks with NO books of business. Lots of pages in the old database of deposits under $3000. I could count deposits over $75,000 on my 20 digits. Not too many people to call. Unless you call from the list of the branches located 2 miles east, west, south, or north of you which you are discouraged from doing. I think this bank and McDonalds have an affair going on. And if you do find a client with money then the boys upstairs in private client services will eventually get wind of it.... so long.

Also, FAs are treated like DIRT in a bank. So, do not think that being a VP means anything. EVERYONE is a VP. You have NO authority.

There is NO getting around it. This is a tough career. There is NO way to make it unless you inherit books of business. You have to be in the right place at the right time and be CONNECTED! Otherwise you are toast! Or you can just kiss years of your life away trying to make it in this increasingly tough regulatory environment.

I could go on. As you can see. I do not like the bank! WARNING!!

I am not sure I like the business. The regulations, compliance, and paperwork will eventually snuff the last spark of joy out of you.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU FIND ANOTHER CAREER.

If you WRITE me I will be glad to share which bank I will be leaving shortly. I did start off a a brokerage it does not seem so bad anymore.

Thank you - I feel better now.....

Ron 14's picture
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I am pretty sure there are good bank programs out there. Does the bank make you pay $500+ for insurance each month and also make you buy toilet paper and knock on doors?
 
It could be worse.

norway401's picture
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Geez Crystal ....some vent. Your right this is NOT a career for you. Please find yourself a good career advisor and move

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Ron 14 wrote:I am pretty sure there are good bank programs out there. Does the bank make you pay $500+ for insurance each month and also make you buy toilet paper and knock on doors?
 
It could be worse.
 
Yeah, LPL's insurance is expensive.  TP can be a pain to have to remember when you're at Sam's.  You only have to doorknock if you like getting new clients.  If you don't want to, it's OK. 

Crystal's picture
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Say Norway,

How did you start? Did you start with zero? Were you connected ie. Captain of your sports team in your local community in which you now reside? I am saying unless someone is CONNECTED this is ROUGH. Were you connected?

Have your arrived? Can you balance your life yet? How long have you been doing this?

And the bank is not any easier than door knocking. There are trade offs but I do not believe they add up to make the bank more attractive. Especially if you enjoy REALLY helping the client, financial planning, and NOT having a 1000 clients plus with $5000 or less to invest.

Where are you today? How many clients do you have? What is your payout?

norway401's picture
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PM me and I will discuss. BTW , I still work long hours and meet clients on Saturdays or even Sundays if required. And to your question....yes started out a ZERO.
 

Ron 14's picture
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Is that what bank life is about? You run around basically filling investment transactions with no real control over your schedule and such?
 
Right now I am seriously considering a move to JPM/Chase from EJ. Input please?

Defector's picture
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I disagree to a certain extent. If you are providing practically all load funds and front-end load VA's without much of a breakpoint, I'd probably agree one might average close to a 40% payout.  Also, considering the bonus payout, that's only if the firm is in a bonus bracket. I've seen some pretty long dry spells where there was  no bonus bracket. So, by the time one generates peanuts for providing cds, jockying some stock (low payout too), and providing bonds netting a low payout, I'd say the average payout is closer to 32-35%. If you have a pretty diversified book of business, your gonna have those low or no-payout positions. If your averaging 40%, keep doing what your doing , as long as it is appropriate for the client.

Ron 14's picture
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What the hell are you talking about?

Borker Boy's picture
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I have a cousin who started at JP Morgan; he was there for probably 6 months and was starving to death.
 
He left a couple weeks ago for Merrill.

Crystal's picture
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I highly recommend avoiding Chase and teaming up with FAs you have an affinity with, that you share like values, and respect. Join one of the independent firms. I would team up and share expenses under the umbrella of Raymond James or LPL. Find some reps with these firms and interview them. Being part of a team will be stimulating, good company, and you can share expenses. Once your overhead is covered you will have shear profit and good payouts. Forget about the bank!

You will own your book of business. Your payouts will be greater and you will not have to build a book of thousands.

Build on your current base of business with client appreciation events. Thank you clients and have them bring two friends each to your event. Have your vendors help you.

You will keep control of your time. You lose control at Chase. Your time will be managed by everyone else. The more banks brnaches you have the worse it is.

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I met a guy the other day who is independent with LPL but has offices in about six different branches of the same credit union.
 
He and a partner cover the branches, and he said compared to brokerage life, this is cake.
 
Is anyone familiar with this setup?

norway401's picture
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Crystal ....are you looking for a Friendship Club or a Career? Review your original post and I will quote you:
1) " Also , FAs are treated like dirt".
2) " I am not sure I like the business".
3) " There is NO way to make it unless you inherit books of business".
4) " You have to be in the right place at the right time and be CONNECTED ".
Or you can simply work harder and smarter. In conclusion , I will quote my friend ICE -
" Or you can be bitter".

Ron 14's picture
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I think what she is saying is leaving a brokerage firm to go to a bank is not the golden path.

Whats wrong with being bitter? I love it!

CreditOnion's picture
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Crystal wrote:You will not enjoy being a bankrep. It is KMart investing. You are SO limited in what you can sell and the bank SHAVES your commissions on annuities and then pays them out a percentage per quarter. They are making interest on YOUR money. For example: an annuity pays 7% to the bank. The bank then will pay you .285 of 4%. This commission is paid out 1% per quarter. AMAZING!
 
We can sell anything you can sell at a brokerage firm and with lower expenses. Our IRA annual fees for example are $25 dollars. Our list of what we have available to sell is endless.You will be doing alot of work for bankers who are on salary. You will be on commission. You will train them, make joint calls with them. Nothing like two people doing the work one person can do. You are doing their work for them. They get paid a commission on top of the salary they are making. Bankers can work the straight 7-8 hour day and take days off, weekends, and vacations. You will not be doing this. You will be busting your A from 7am to 8pm when the last teller leaves- 6 days a week and with NO time off and with no vacation. Because you will STARVE if you do!
 
Maybe you dont understand. A "joint call" is a free referral. When you make that "joint call", you are tapping into a new client that never would have existed if you had not participated. You may be given multiple banks with NO books of business. Lots of pages in the old database of deposits under $3000. I could count deposits over $75,000 on my 20 digits. Not too many people to call. Unless you call from the list of the branches located 2 miles east, west, south, or north of you which you are discouraged from doing. I think this bank and McDonalds have an affair going on. And if you do find a client with money then the boys upstairs in private client services will eventually get wind of it.... so long.
 
My CD call list for this month is over $5,000,000 in untapped assets. Most of these members are very loyal to the credit union and want to work with you. I have 6 branches and look forward to every visit at every branch to build a relationship with those folks that give me 40 - 60 referrals per month and I never have to door knock to build my book of business.  Also, FAs are treated like DIRT in a bank. So, do not think that being a VP means anything. EVERYONE is a VP. You have NO authority.
 
We are treated like gold. I just spent 5 days in San Diego with the credit union's senior management and they respect us and treat us like an asset that is a credible way to build positive relationships for our members. There is NO getting around it. This is a tough career. There is NO way to make it unless you inherit books of business. You have to be in the right place at the right time and be CONNECTED! Otherwise you are toast! Or you can just kiss years of your life away trying to make it in this increasingly tough regulatory environment.
 
Actually, this business gets much easier once you get into a good bank environment. I had wasted 3 years at EJ working the same book of prospects and clients. Now I work with an endless supply of prospects and they treat me with the respect I deserve and want to hear my opinion.I could go on. As you can see. I do not like the bank! WARNING!! I am not sure I like the business. The regulations, compliance, and paperwork will eventually snuff the last spark of joy out of you.
 
You are going to find compliance issues everywhere you go. If you run an ethical business, it is not a problem. maybe you should review what your goals are and make sure your clients are treated the way you would want to be treated. It makes compliance much easier.I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU FIND ANOTHER CAREER.If you WRITE me I will be glad to share which bank I will be leaving shortly. I did start off a a brokerage it does not seem so bad anymore. Thank you - I feel better now.....

norway401's picture
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RON14 - I would agree that there is no perfect situation. But Crystal plain and simple sounds like an Very Angry , Very Frustrated and perhaps Failing Advisor.
She admits she is or will be leaving the Bank and wants this " Perfect " situation where everything will be just so wonderful And she will be bringing to the table ....what
Her Book of Business , Her Connections or perhaps she thinks that another situation will be the cure all to her perceived injustices of the real world.

Ron 14's picture
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Joined: 2008-07-10

I hear ya. In her defense those are the exact feelings I have. It seems that sometimes  struggles in this business force people (myself included) to look elsewhere because your number one priority is self preservation.

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Defector wrote:I disagree to a certain extent. If you are providing practically all load funds and front-end load VA's without much of a breakpoint, I'd probably agree one might average close to a 40% payout.  Also, considering the bonus payout, that's only if the firm is in a bonus bracket. I've seen some pretty long dry spells where there was  no bonus bracket. So, by the time one generates peanuts for providing cds, jockying some stock (low payout too), and providing bonds netting a low payout, I'd say the average payout is closer to 32-35%. If you have a pretty diversified book of business, your gonna have those low or no-payout positions. If your averaging 40%, keep doing what your doing , as long as it is appropriate for the client.
 
Actually, Jones is still well into bonus territory.  It has been many years since Jones did not pay a bonus.  Since 1991, there have only been two trimesters (3rd trimester 2002, and 1st trimester 2003) where Jones did not pay bonuses.  So 49 out of the last 51 trimesters have had bonuses (Considering that most firm's stock is down 50% or more, and many are laying people off, I don't think a "smaller" bonus is much to whine about right now).
 
As far as "VA's without much of a breakpoint" (not sure what that means) and "providing CD's and jockying stocks (low payout too)", I have no idea where you come up with this stuff (2% of our asset sales are CD's, 14% are stocks, and I am not sure what is wrong with a-share annuities). 
 
You might be using your own poor historical approach to investing as a proxy for the firm as a whole, but I think you must be the exception and no the rule.
 
I find that a lot fo rookies come on here whining about payout and stupid stuff, but that fact is, the payout for rookies is the same at most firms.  Ask a veteran doing 800K gross, and most of their payouts (just production + bonus) is around 55-60%.  That does not include profit sharing (I never count trips, even though Jones does).  Profit sharing adds another 2% or so (about 4%+ of net).

norway401's picture
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Ron14 - I am not making light of very REAL situations. Understand frustration , struggles and self preservation. Reviewing her two posts several times indicates to me ( my opinion ) that PERHAPS this Industry is straight out not for her. I am being very honest when I say I have not meet any person that has built up their business that has not gone through all of the above emotions.

Ron 14's picture
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Norway-All very true. Everyone has different situations and personalities to combat any possible struggles. It may not be the business for her.
 

Crystal's picture
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Norway401,

I am angry with Chase bank. It is impersonal and will suck you dry. As far as making it in the business, I am over my goals and am on pace. That is not the problem. The problem is management, the structure, and the payouts. It is so big you will only get the runaroud.

The environment DOES make a difference in where one will be happy. I am saying the brokerage and the bank are both hard work. The rewards, freedom, ahd payouts are greatest with the independent quality brokers.

Norway who do you work for/with?

Ron, you are doing the right thing, stay the course!

norway401's picture
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That is my only point to her. Her suggestions that only Connected People , Captain of Football Team , Inherited Books of Business etc. are the only way to make it .....is just plain wrong. What is going to change for her going to her perceived Perfect Situation? She has what to offer

Indyone's picture
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Borker Boy wrote:I met a guy the other day who is independent with LPL but has offices in about six different branches of the same credit union.
 
He and a partner cover the branches, and he said compared to brokerage life, this is cake.
 
Is anyone familiar with this setup?
 
Yeah, I've heard of it and it's the only way I'd look at a bank.  There is at least one contributor on this board that's doing just that, but I'll let that person speak for themselves.
 
A common way for an independent to do this in a bank is to set up a separate rep number for bank referrals where the bank gets perhaps 20% of the gross for sending the business and providing space.  The exact details and what else the bank provides varies by location, but the reps run their own corporations, partnerships or schedule C businesses.  Obviously, the bank benefits from the commission splits and some cross business as rep clients are likely to bank at the same place for convenience sake.  The big thing that would need to be worked out in advance is what happens if the rep wants to move out and set up their own shop.  My assumption is that the commission sharing for referred clients would go on for a set amount of time after the rep leaves.

Ron 14's picture
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Joined: 2008-07-10

You have to admit that it is easier if you are well connected. At least the first 3-4 years. Every guy/gal in my area who is off the charts is well connected. At year 10 its all a wash, but the hard part is the first 4 yrs and if you have some people who can boost your biz early on it takes the stress off.

vbrainy's picture
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Is it true that you have quotas at banks?  Like you HAVE to sell so many annuities, mutual funds, etc?
 
That would be the deal breaker for me.

troll's picture
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vbrainy wrote:Is it true that you have quotas at banks?  Like you HAVE to sell so many annuities, mutual funds, etc?
 
That would be the deal breaker for me.It's a deal breaker for all low producers.

Methodical Momma's picture
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At my bank we do have quotas.  But the quotas are not product specific.  Must meet a minimum GDC.

B24's picture
B24
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I just met a bank broker that did 17K gross in her first year. That's right. 17K. She's salaried. No wonder.

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Joined: 2004-11-30

Borker Boy wrote:I met a guy the other day who is independent with LPL but has offices in about six different branches of the same credit union.
 
He and a partner cover the branches, and he said compared to brokerage life, this is cake.
 
Is anyone familiar with this setup?
I am familiar. You can ask anything you want to....

Charlie Brown's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-11

Noggin can you share a few positives and negatives about your arrangement such as
payout ratio?
number of leads per month

is your product plateform limited?
etc..

Crystal's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-08-05

Hello CreditOnion,

The thought process here is about banks. Actually, I only worked for one. So, my reactions art to that one.

You work for a Credit Union. Do you know the difference? If not PM me and we will chat.

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