What happened to voltmoie?
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What the hell are you talking about ? Am I missing something? 5,000 years ago could two men reproduce ? Two women ? I am pretty sure society would be finished completely well before 1452 if that is when heterosexual marriage finally became the norm. [/quote][quote=Still@jones]
So, I agree with Spiff that we live in a society that evolved to not be appropriate for gay activity…
oh, wait, is Spiff ok with evolution?
oh boy…
Approximate end of the roman empire.
[quote=anonymous]]Moraen, I think that if you talked to your gay friends, in hindsight, they will tell you that they liked people of the same sex before they got to the age that they had to find an appropriate mate.
By the way, my beliefs on this subject is that like lots of things there are both biological and environmental factors at play. I think that “gayness” is more on a continuum than just “straight” or “gay”. Biology will factor in to where one is on this continuum. For those like me who are way over on the straight side, nothing in the environment will cause them to be attracted to someone of the same sex. For those on the other side, no environmental factors will cause them to be attracted to someone of the opposite sex. For the people in the middle, environmental factors could certainly play a big part.
There also seems to be a big male/female difference with this. For instance, a large % of college girls have at one time at least made out with someone of the same sex. This is usually a drunken thing and doesn’t make the girl gay. Yet, if a guy does that, they are probably gay. Straight guys don’t mess around with guys. [/quote]
No, most of them dated women, got burned and thought guys were the way to go. They were always “different” but each of them was different in a different way. One guy was goth in high school, another just hated sports (from Texas - if you don’t like sports in Texas you are automatically gay). Another guy wanted to dance. And managed to be a dancer for quite a bit of his adult life. But here’s the thing: All of the other male dancers he was around were gay.
There are some that you just have no idea about though. Could have been gay their whole lives.
I agree with women. I have a buddy though, going through a divorce. His wife left him after 16 years for another woman. Go figure.
Morean, you have an interesting theory, I actually hadn’t heard it before but it sounds plausible. Some people are programmed to take the path of least resistance in life and for some that’s being gay. Some people want acceptance anywhere they can get it and if they’re not finding it with women they’d rather find it with a man than not at all.
[quote=BerkshireBull]
Morean, you have an interesting theory, I actually hadn’t heard it before but it sounds plausible. Some people are programmed to take the path of least resistance in life and for some that’s being gay. Some people want acceptance anywhere they can get it and if they’re not finding it with women they’d rather find it with a man than not at all.
[/quote]
and that my friends is environment…AKA…Choice
With gay women. The majority of them only fool around with women because of it’s social stigma. It’s “hot” for them to make out with another woman. If guy’s thought of lesbians the way they do gay men, women wouldn’t touch each other in college. My best friend is “lesbian”, and has been for the last 7 years, but she’ll be the first to tell you that she will never marry a woman. She’s just “Having fun”. What a shocker that she was straight as hell when I met her, then came to college and met a bunch of gay women and WHOALA…
There are some women that I totally believe Moraen on, along with the men. They just aren’t accepted with the opposite sex and just go the easy route. Then demand thats who “they are”. I say BS, grow some balls and deal with a woman’s sh*t like the rest of us. Occasionally it’s worth it!
[quote=BerkshireBull]
Morean, you have an interesting theory, I actually hadn’t heard it before but it sounds plausible. Some people are programmed to take the path of least resistance in life and for some that’s being gay. Some people want acceptance anywhere they can get it and if they’re not finding it with women they’d rather find it with a man than not at all.
[/quote]
My wife works with EBD and early childhood development. We have these discussion every night. I’ve peer-reviewed (not being a peer) more articles than I’d care to admit. She is the editor of a journal that deals with these issues. The last issue that came out dealt with sexual identification and it’s role in childhood development.
Crazy stuff.
So I come up with stuff all of the time. Most of it crap.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=BerkshireBull]
Morean, you have an interesting theory, I actually hadn’t heard it before but it sounds plausible. Some people are programmed to take the path of least resistance in life and for some that’s being gay. Some people want acceptance anywhere they can get it and if they’re not finding it with women they’d rather find it with a man than not at all.
[/quote]
My wife works with EBD and early childhood development. We have these discussion every night. I’ve peer-reviewed (not being a peer) more articles than I’d care to admit. She is the editor of a journal that deals with these issues. The last issue that came out dealt with sexual identification and it’s role in childhood development.
Crazy stuff.
So I come up with stuff all of the time. Most of it crap.[/quote]
Is your wifes degree in Psych? If she deals with early childhood development then she will know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the children in DHS custody, who have gay parents. I remember working one night at the behavior clinic and a 10 year old boy who had gay parents was caught naked with another 11 year old boy. Come to find out, the 10 year old kid was trying that with almost every other young boy. It was very odd, but that sort of thing will break your heart. Thats why i have such a huge stance on it, i’ve seen it with my own eyes.
Being brought up by gay parents, is really no different than my friend who went to college and hung out with the gay crowd. It’s environment and anyone will do ANYTHING given the right environmental circumstances.
[quote=Ronnie Dobbs] [quote=Moraen] [quote=BerkshireBull]
Morean, you have an interesting theory, I actually hadn’t heard it before but it sounds plausible. Some people are programmed to take the path of least resistance in life and for some that’s being gay. Some people want acceptance anywhere they can get it and if they’re not finding it with women they’d rather find it with a man than not at all.
[/quote]
My wife works with EBD and early childhood development. We have these discussion every night. I’ve peer-reviewed (not being a peer) more articles than I’d care to admit. She is the editor of a journal that deals with these issues. The last issue that came out dealt with sexual identification and it’s role in childhood development.
Crazy stuff.
So I come up with stuff all of the time. Most of it crap.[/quote]
Is your wifes degree in Psych? If she deals with early childhood development then she will know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the children in DHS custody, who have gay parents. I remember working one night at the behavior clinic and a 10 year old boy who had gay parents was caught naked with another 11 year old boy. Come to find out, the 10 year old kid was trying that with almost every other young boy. It was very odd, but that sort of thing will break your heart. Thats why i have such a huge stance on it, i’ve seen it with my own eyes.
Being brought up by gay parents, is really no different than my friend who went to college and hung out with the gay crowd. It’s environment and anyone will do ANYTHING given the right environmental circumstances.[/quote]
She has a dual Master’s, one in Educational Psychology and the other in Special Education. Finishing up her dissertation for her Ph.D in curriculum and instruction. MOST of what she deals with is Special Education related, but sometimes the work she does crosses over into Psychology, Neuroscience and Biology. Her curriculum is heavily quant-based, so empirical data is the big deal.
So it is not specifically Psychology in nature, although a lot of the papers we read at night deal with psychology. And part of her dissertation is on gender roles and the effect of them upon identification of EBD. And EBD is tied closely to both environment and genetics, depending.
Not so sure that would be the path of least resistance..............[/quote][quote=BerkshireBull] Morean, you have an interesting theory, I actually hadn’t heard it before but it sounds plausible. Some people are programmed to take the path of least resistance in life and for some that’s being gay. Some people want acceptance anywhere they can get it and if they’re not finding it with women they’d rather find it with a man than not at all.
He said for some. But think about it. If the only other people who will talk to you and let you hang out with them are other weird guys.... it is a little easier. Certainly easier than trying to make friends with jerks that hate you because you are different.
[quote=gethardgetraw]
What do you guys think of universal healthcare?
[/quote] Have you seen the way they have handled SS, Medicare, the budget, and the post office? You really want those people running healthcare too? Nice try at changing the subject though.[quote=gethardgetraw]
What do you guys think of universal healthcare?
[/quote]Life - Right
Ability to defend yourself - Right
Ability to say whatever you want - Right
Be stupid - Right
Vote for whoever you want to - Right
Retirement - Not a right
Healthcare - Not a right
TV - Not a right
Vehicle - Not a right
Driver’s License - Not a right
Let’s think about that last one for one second. We will take away somebody’s driver’s license for reckless driving and deny them the privilege of driving. But people who don’t take care of themselves and overeat - we’ll pay for their healthcare?
Health care is not a right. Unless you are unable to fend for yourself.
[quote=hotair1]You guys are idiots.
Fat chicks will date anyone. Ask Windy. [/quote]Not true. Fat chicks have been empowered by famous fat chicks and think they are hot.
Men who dress like Criss Angel but look like Pigpen with makeup on don't get fat chicks even.
What I am saying is the act of gay sex is a sin, so is premarital sex, so is lusting after hot tellers, so is cheating on your spouse. I am uncomfortable around a guy I work with who frequently cheats on his wife. I am also uncomfortable with having my 5 year old son spend the night at the home of a gay couple. All sins are equal and God will choose the punishment. [/quote] Who made these rules for what is a sin and what isn't? Are you saying that eating meat on friday is as bad as ass F**king your neighbors wife? The problem with deeply religious educated people is... Well I guess there really aren't any in the world. BTW- For what it is worth. I can't wait until you "religous people" realize that not wanting to be around people for their sexual orientation isn't ANY different from not wanting to be around Cancer patients. Also calling a group of the population "creepy" is HATE. Lastly - Voltmie to me has always sounded like an idiot. Some new dude at Jones who thinks in the first 5 months he knows what is what. I have been cracking at this company for years and I still don't know.[quote=LockEDJ][quote=Ron 14] … Being gay is a sin. [/quote] [quote=Ron 14]So is lusting after the hot teller that just walked by.[/quote]
Ya see … I’m pretty sure I know my Ten Commandments. Let’s see … which one of these two things is not like the other? If you’re going to suggest that all the things decried or scorned in the Old Testament are sins, then it’s time to give up bacon for breakfast and consider slavery a good idea.
Admitting you are uncomfortable around gays is no crime - heck, I find clowns frightening. Suggesting that they deserve to be punished for their sins, well, now you’re in a whole other world. [EDIT= I mean suggesting that punishing clowns for their crimes, naturally. No one in their right mind would punish gays for their sins.]
[quote=RealWorld]
[][/quote]
Is it hate to say that men who lust after little boys are “creepy”? If you don’t think so, then you sir are creepy.
Besides, peoples’ opinions don’t mean something is hate. I’ll go further. I think two men together are DISGUSTING, but that’s their choice. My gay friends think it’s disgusting that I have sex with my wife.
Interestingly enough Charles Darwin was a deeply religious man.
As was Galileo.
Today, there are plenty of educated religious people.
[quote=RealWorld]
Who made these rules for what is a sin and what isn't? Are you saying that eating meat on friday is as bad as ass F**king your neighbors wife? The problem with deeply religious educated people is... Well I guess there really aren't any in the world. BTW- For what it is worth. I can't wait until you "religous people" realize that not wanting to be around people for their sexual orientation isn't ANY different from not wanting to be around Cancer patients. Also calling a group of the population "creepy" is HATE. Lastly - Voltmie to me has always sounded like an idiot. Some new dude at Jones who thinks in the first 5 months he knows what is what. I have been cracking at this company for years and I still don't know. [/quote] 1 - God - See Exodus Ch. 20 - you might have heard of it being called the 10 Commandments. He passed on a lot of things to us through people like Moses, Abraham, the Apostles, and Paul, but He gave us the rulebook while he was at it. 2 - Paul wrote, I'll have to edit with the chapter and verse tomorrow since I don't have my Bible on my desk, that sexual sins are worse than others because they are a part of your body. I know I'm really paraphrasing that, but the basic idea is that when you sin sexually it has a different effect on you psychologically than say eating meat on Friday during Lent. Which, in my denomination, isn't a sin at all. Social justice isn't the same as God's judgement. In His court a misdemeanor carries the same punishment as a felony. They're all death sentences (Romans 6:23). However, there can be repentance, forgiveness, and grace. Which is a topic for another day. 3 - There are ton's of highly educated religious people. However, their beliefs are put in question by their peers and not taken seriously. The thing about highly educated non-religious people is that they lack one thing that their highly educated religious people don't - faith. Educated people typically look for empirical evidence for something before they pronounce their belief in it. They can't possible believe, because they can't prove it emperically, that there is a God and all the things that go along with that. They'll believe in evolution, global warming, and yeti, but not God. If you think there aren't any educated religious people, you need to read the works of CS Lewis. Start with the Cliff notes. 4 - In my opinion, it is absolutely different. Being gay is a choice. Getting cancer isn't. Equating a lifestyle choice to a disease isn't even a fair comparison. The fact that gay people are creepy to me isn't the same as hating them. In fact, hating them would be a sin. So, I choose to spend my time with other people who have similar viewpoints to me. You can be as gay as you want to be, doesn't matter to me, just don't invite me to your all guy sleepover and expect me to participate in the spin the bottle game. Question - a lot of you jumped on my case last week and called me a bigot for my opinions. Why is it, in this day and age, that the homosexual lifestyle is more socially acceptable than being a fundamental Christian? Why is it that society is trying to rid the country of anything religious? 52 what's his name started a thread calling the evangelical christian conservative republican (unless you're catholich, then you're OK) the most dangerous group in the country. I didn't hear anyone step up and flat out call him a bigot. Doesn't anyone see the hypocrisy in that?[quote=Spaceman Spiff] [quote=RealWorld]
Are you saying that eating meat on friday is as bad as ass F**king your neighbors wife?
The problem with deeply religious educated people is… Well I guess there really aren’t any in the world.
BTW- For what it is worth. I can’t wait until you “religous people” realize that not wanting to be around people for their sexual orientation isn’t ANY different from not wanting to be around Cancer patients.
Also calling a group of the population “creepy” is HATE.
Lastly - Voltmie to me has always sounded like an idiot. Some new dude at Jones who thinks in the first 5 months he knows what is what. I have been cracking at this company for years and I still don’t know. [/quote]
1 - God - See Exodus Ch. 20 - you might have heard of it being called the 10 Commandments. He passed on a lot of things to us through people like Moses, Abraham, the Apostles, and Paul, but He gave us the rulebook while he was at it.
2 - Paul wrote, I’ll have to edit with the chapter and verse tomorrow since I don’t have my Bible on my desk, that sexual sins are worse than others because they are a part of your body. I know I’m really paraphrasing that, but the basic idea is that when you sin sexually it has a different effect on you psychologically than say eating meat on Friday during Lent. Which, in my denomination, isn’t a sin at all.
Social justice isn’t the same as God’s judgement. In His court a misdemeanor carries the same punishment as a felony. They’re all death sentences (Romans 6:23). However, there can be repentance, forgiveness, and grace. Which is a topic for another day.
3 - There are ton’s of highly educated religious people. However, their beliefs are put in question by their peers and not taken seriously. The thing about highly educated non-religious people is that they lack one thing that their highly educated religious people don’t - faith. Educated people typically look for empirical evidence for something before they pronounce their belief in it. They can’t possible believe, because they can’t prove it emperically, that there is a God and all the things that go along with that. They’ll believe in evolution, global warming, and yeti, but not God.
If you think there aren’t any educated religious people, you need to read the works of CS Lewis. Start with the Cliff notes.
4 - In my opinion, it is absolutely different. Being gay is a choice. Getting cancer isn’t. Equating a lifestyle choice to a disease isn’t even a fair comparison.
The fact that gay people are creepy to me isn’t the same as hating them. In fact, hating them would be a sin. So, I choose to spend my time with other people who have similar viewpoints to me. You can be as gay as you want to be, doesn’t matter to me, just don’t invite me to your all guy sleepover and expect me to participate in the spin the bottle game.
Question - a lot of you jumped on my case last week and called me a bigot for my opinions. Why is it, in this day and age, that the homosexual lifestyle is more socially acceptable than being a fundamental Christian? Why is it that society is trying to rid the country of anything religious? 52 what’s his name started a thread calling the evangelical christian conservative republican (unless you’re catholich, then you’re OK) the most dangerous group in the country. I didn’t hear anyone step up and flat out call him a bigot. Doesn’t anyone see the hypocrisy in that? [/quote]
Hey now, I’ve been bashing 52 all over the place. I’m not a religious man, but I do follow some tenets.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff] …
I just looked at this passage. Funny thing, no reference to homosexuality there.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
Social justice isn’t the same as God’s judgement. [/quote]
And of course, this is precisely my point, made earlier … that most of the tenets used to harass gays are as culturally based as demeaning females or approving of slavery. And it’s worthwhile saying again - there are no passages in the Bible where homosexuality isn’t decried as a part of some sort of other deviancy like rape or promiscuity. As I perceive my homosexual friends, I see neither rape or promiscuity.
Painting them as such is the domain of the religious few that would prefer to simply demean them than understand them. It’s easy to think they want to get abuse little boys (when, in fact, heterosexual child abuse is far more prevalent) or to think they can’t stay faithful (when divorce rates sail above 50%), and so deserving of God’s wrath - and by extension, ours. It is a short path from demeaning a group of society, and it nearly always starts with some sort of religious justification.
As regards 52 … a butthead. As regards my comments towards yourself … I don’t think I called you a bigot and my apologies if that seems the case. I probably jumped to the conclusion that you believe that Aids was sent by our Lord to kill gays. But that’s a natural extension of what you’ve written here.
“4 - In my opinion, it is absolutely different. Being gay is a choice. Getting cancer isn’t. Equating a lifestyle choice to a disease isn’t even a fair comparison.”
Spaceman, I am really looking for some sort of explanation for this. I do understand that the act of having sex with one's own sex is a choice. If I'm not mistaken, "being gay" means that one is attracted to someone of their own sex. How is this a choice? I couldn't choose to attracted to someone of my sex even if I wanted to do so. I also couldn't choose to be attracted to the 500 pound smelly mean girl with acne and going bald. Are you saying that one has the choice as to whom they will find attractive?[quote=anonymous]“4 - In my opinion, it is absolutely different. Being gay is a choice. Getting cancer isn’t. Equating a lifestyle choice to a disease isn’t even a fair comparison.”
Spaceman, I am really looking for some sort of explanation for this. I do understand that the act of having sex with one's own sex is a choice. If I'm not mistaken, "being gay" means that one is attracted to someone of their own sex. How is this a choice? I couldn't choose to attracted to someone of my sex even if I wanted to do so. I also couldn't choose to be attracted to the 500 pound smelly mean girl with acne and going bald. Are you saying that one has the choice as to whom they will find attractive?[/quote] How often do you hear about a gay man coming out and saying "I'm straight and I was born that way"? You don't. However there are many examples of men who have been married to a woman who have said "I'm gay, always have been, I was born that way". Yet they made the choice to have sex with a woman for many years. You can't have it both ways.