suck ass training programs

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ShortNakedPuts's picture
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This message is to tell all you young up and comers to quit worrying
about "who has the best training program" because all of them are a
joke.  Imagine signing something that says you will owe them
$40,000 for training costs if you leave, when your training consists of
"here go read some stuff we posted online kid."  Yeah, I bet it
costs 40 grand per person to post some content online!!  What a
ripoff!!

The truth is they toss you through the system as fast as possible
before you're really even ready to have a fair shot.  You could
read about personal finance for 60 hours a week for 5 years and still
not know everything.  Yet I am thrusted through their training
program in 15-20 weeks and over half of that time I am working as a
f*cking receptionist.  Yes, working the switchboard of a major
wirehouse during the time I'm supposed to be studying.  "Study in
between calls" is what they tell me.  The phone rings on average 4
times per minute!  Good luck!!  They dont even hire a
permenant receptionist...they rotate two trainees!  What a joke!

Soothsayer's picture
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I would be the first to agree that most of the major wirehouse training programs are still based on 1990s models.  You know, back in the day of 19% compounded annual returns.  Just slam 'em into something and move on to the next one.  Every firm is trying to grow, but the number of registered representative has dropped every year since 2000 industry wide.  Attrition rates are eye-popping and sobering.  New brokers are not going to be successful targeting millionaires.  That being said, it can be done.  I started from zero, and I'm still standing.  Stop feeling sorry for yourself.  Do not accept failure as an option, and move on to a better working environment.

Roger Thornhill's picture
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There is a shortage of high impact sales training. The American College has incorporated the LUTC program into their curriculum, and I'm moderating courses. Compared to what I went through, LUTC is probably the best for a new grunt.
Of course, there's always my favorite site. There's a ton of great sales ideas over there. 

inquisitive's picture
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To the original poster:

I'm glad you mentioned that.  Most "training programs" are
unremarkable, to say the least.  They're laughable,
actually.  It's absurd for most people to be concerned about "the
best" training program, because your success is mostly up to you.

Too bad you didn't tell us what company you work for.

A training program isn't going to make a success out of someone
destined to fail, nor make a failure out of someone destined to succeed.

That's goes for the company you work for, too.  While I will agree
that a well-known name, a strong brand, can help you out while you are
beginning, it isn't going to make much difference in terms of your
overall success over time.

Even small regionals have $3 and $4 million producers.

Even Merrill Lynch's training program produces washouts.

blarmston's picture
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"...your success is mostly up to you...."
inq- that post is right on the money...

rightway's picture
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I started in a bank, and I was told to read series 7 material in week
1, take a week long review class in week 2, then take the 7 on that
Saturday...which my group did.  10 out of 13 passed.  We
showed up on Monday to work on teh 63 and go out and meet our branch
employees.  Then a week or so later we passed our 63 and began
taking referrals and selling immediately. 

We learned the business with other peoples hard earned money, and that was just plain wrong. 

Plugging through a training program, despite how independent,  and
self directed it may be, is better than the above.  If you cannot
get through a training program, you will not make in the business.

Roger Thornhill's picture
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Home offices can't train sales people. That's a field management job.
The dime-a-dozen MBA types that have never sold anything tried to redesign the field management positions during the 1980s and into the 1990s. Dilbert is real, and they cloned his arse. Home offices are infected with Dilberts like FPi is infected with failed planners.
The result:  All but non-existent field management, and what's left is rarely worth a damn.
Without those who know how to do the job, who can teach others how to do the job, the newbys fail as fast as flies find failed planner dung (isn't failed planner dung an oxy moron?)
But, there is hope! The American College is the ONLY source of higher education for financial services professionals that incorporates high impact sales training, through the revamped LUTC program.

Put Trader's picture
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rightway wrote:I started in a bank, and I was told to read series 7 material in week
1, take a week long review class in week 2, then take the 7 on that
Saturday...which my group did.  10 out of 13 passed.

Let's see if that makes sense.  Nah, it doesn't.

First, even a bank would not suggest that somebody sit for Series 7 with only two weeks preparation.

The book takes more than a week to read--they're about 1,000 pages of
boring, but highly confusing, material.  In order to finish the
book in a week you'd have to alllow no more than three hours to
options, two hours to municipal bonds and so forth.  It's amazing
that so many of you choose to lie about how much you prepared in a
forum filled with people who have also prepared--and in front of me, a
guy who has spent most of my career involved in the nebulous world of
branch administration which includes hiring, firing, training and test
preparation.

Not all testing centers are open on Saturday, and Saturday appointments
are high desireable.  There are two things about that part of
Righway's lie that caught my seasoned eye.  First is the FACT that
it is damn near impossible to get Saturday appointments with only two
week's notice--second is the FACT that except for two centers in
Manhattan it is my understanding that the testing centers are not large
enough to accomodate more than six Series 7 candidates per day. 
They need their terminals for other exams, not only NASD exams
either.  You might be sitting next to somebody taking a test to
become a pilot on a river barge or some other exotic thing.

rightway wrote:
We
showed up on Monday to work on teh 63 and go out and meet our branch
employees.  Then a week or so later we passed our 63 and began
taking referrals and selling immediately. 

We learned the business with other peoples hard earned money, and that was just plain wrong. 

Plugging through a training program, despite how independent,  and
self directed it may be, is better than the above.  If you cannot
get through a training program, you will not make in the business.

Rightway is not a fan of banks.  It would figure that he would lie
about anything about them---including what exams he took, how long they
allowed him to prepare, and everything else.

Virtually every bank in the country has it's NEW HIRES take Series 6/63
because that is all that is required to sell their product mix.

I am no fan of the idea of bank advisors.  I've been on committees
where bank types are explaining that they recruit tellers and Assistant
Assistant Vice President platform people to the bank's investment
efforts and then go on to explain that they find that those (primarily)
women find passing Series 6 to be exceptionally challenging and that
the few times they tried Series 7 classes they would get pass/fail
ratios in the 20% area.

To handle the Series 7 business--about 90% of it is liquidating assets
to be reinvested in the mutual funds and annuities being flogged by the
women out there in the branches--there is a call center not unlike at
e*Trade.

Mrs. Jones, the investment advisor for four branches, spends one day a
week in each of her branches and returns to each branch every fourth
Friday for some pre-arranged "event" where she can hold a seminar or
meet and greet "party" with a select group of branch customers.

For years banks worried that investment efforts were prostelizing their
CD business--bankers like the money to stay in CDs because it can be
lent to other customers.  What is put into mutual funds and
annuities is "gone" from the bank and cannot be used to fund consumer
loans.

After much study it was determined that if presented right a bank based
B/D can actually attract money out of traditional places such as
Merrill--that there was an occasioal client who would liquidate their
CD in order to settle a mutual fund purchase, but that they were
unusual rather than the rule.

Anyway, back to the call center.  Banks do have the ability to
handle a client's debt and equity positions--it's mostly liquidating,
although they will also buy.  A huge portion of what they do is
done with market orders and the souls who answer the phone are (very
often) not the "image" that the bank is trying to put forward in the
branches--meaning fat and ugly smart-people who were capable of passing
Series 7 while the folks out pressing the flesh found that it took them
two or three times to pass the Series 6, but at least they're not fat
and ugly.

Starka's picture
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Roger, what's the deal with LUTC?  Is it geared specifically towards the insurance industry, or is it a general sales training course?

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:Roger, what's the deal with LUTC?  Is it geared
specifically towards the insurance industry, or is it a general sales
training course?

Why Starka, I thought a guy like you would know something as basic as the "Life Underwriters Training Council."

It's something that is a big deal in the insurance industry.  It
is our experience that people who get the LUTC designations--there is
more than one--have been through some extensive training in both
product knowledge and selling techniques.

LUTC has become a division of The American College and has also gotten
itself tied in with a relatively new organization called
NAIFA--National Association of Financial and Insurance Advisors.

Anyway, LUTC offers a designation called "Life Underwriters Training
Council Fellow" which is--to a degree--as impressive in the insurance
industry as the CFP is in the securities industry. Which explains why
The American College was willing to acquire the right to grant the
designation.

We get reports that joining your local NAIFA chapter might be a decent
idea.  Apparently they are mostly life and A&H insurance
types, but they can be a source of referals because most insurance
types avoid what they see to be the hassles of having to understand
investing in addition to their bread and butter.

Starka's picture
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"Why Starka, I thought a guy like you would know something as basic as the "Life Underwriters Training Council.""
                                      -----Put Trader
*******************************************************
As I am so far superior to you in virtually every respect, I guess it would surprise you that I didn't know that.  However, I never let my ego get in the way when I want to know something.
 

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:As I am so far superior to you in virtually every
respect, I guess it would surprise you that I didn't know that. 
However, I never let my ego get in the way when I want to know
something.

It would be fun to hear a single standard of measurement in which you
think you excel.  From where I sit you're dumb as a rock and as
angry as a mad dog.

What is particularly a shame is that you found it necessary to ask about something involved in the business you are engaged in.

Starka's picture
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As I am not God, there are things "about the business that I'm engaged in" that I'm not aware of.
Humility, Put.  You should try it.  After all, you have so much to be humble about.

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:As I am not God, there are things "about the business that I'm engaged in" that I'm not aware of.
Humility, Put.  You should try it.  After all, you have so much to be humble about.

What role does humility play in achieving?  How does one win while focusing on being humble?

stanwbrown's picture
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Put Trader wrote: Starka wrote:
As I am not God, there are things "about the business that I'm engaged in" that I'm not aware of.
Humility, Put.  You should try it.  After all, you have so much to be humble about.
What role does humility play in achieving?  How does one win while focusing on being humble?
And just what would you, a refugee from production, know about winning OR achieving?

Mojo's picture
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Put Trader wrote: 
What role does humility play in achieving?  How does one win while focusing on being humble?

A$$hopper, here's what some of your peers are achieving (ref Level 5 leaders):

"Transformation to greatness is possible because of leaders, who are
able to combine extreme personal humility with intense professional
will.

Level 5 refers to the highest level of leadership capabilities. The
characteristics common to Level 5 leaders include: personal humility,
professional will, unwaivering resolve, and the practice of giving
credit to others while assigning blame to themselves (cue the
reverberation effect)."  Collins, J.C. Good to Great: Why some companies make the leap and others don't

(Remember the Seinfeld episode where Jerry suggests to George
that he should try doing the opposite of whatever his natural urge
would be...whadya think Porgy? Maybe you could start by calling your
brookie Bess. Let me think what a good name for an American
Staffordshire Terrier would be instead of velcro...hmm...frobro? And
you can call this a humble shakedown.)

Roger Thornhill's picture
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Starka wrote:Roger, what's the deal with LUTC?  Is it geared specifically towards the insurance industry, or is it a general sales training course?
It's the origional third party training for life agents.
LUTC is going through some changes to make it more appealing to a broader audience, including retail brokers and financial advisors.
I've been moderating the courses for three years, and compared to what one does to obtain licenses, and other popular credentials (CLU, ChFC, CFP), the LUTC program is the ONLY one that has a focus on sales, and the activities that make a financial services professional successful.

Roger Thornhill's picture
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Put Trader wrote:LUTC has become a division of The American College and has also gotten itself tied in with a relatively new organization called NAIFA--National Association of Financial and Insurance Advisors.
Incorrect. NAIFA is ex NALU, which is the oldest organization of financial services professionals in the United States.

Put Trader's picture
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Roger Thornhill wrote:
Incorrect. NAIFA is ex NALU, which is the oldest organization of financial services professionals in the United States.

NALU has been around forever, but NAIFA is new, even though it's nothing more than a renaming of an old organization.

NAIFA is approaching banks and brokerage houses in an attempt to build
participation in their local chapters--something NALU did not do, or
was unable to do.

Several of us went to a NAIFA gathering on Long Island--we were
unimpressed with the quality of the "professionals" we met. 
Poorly dressed, poorly spoken, poorly educated--but a possible source
of referals.

We would never hire them, but we were more than willing to attempt to exploit them.

In any case, if a stock broker type--say with Merrill--wants to access
the LUTC training program it is my understanding that they will have to
join NAIFA.  Am I right?

Mojo's picture
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Put Trader wrote:
Roger Thornhill wrote:
Incorrect. NAIFA is ex NALU, which is the oldest organization of financial services professionals in the United States.
 
 Several of us went to a NAIFA gathering on Long Island--we were
unimpressed with the quality of the "professionals" we met. 
Poorly dressed, poorly spoken, poorly educated--but a possible source
of referals.

We would never hire them, but we were more than willing to attempt to exploit them.
 

Okay, instead of Judge Smails we go with Pudge Smails...whadya think Commodore?

Starka's picture
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Put Trader wrote: Roger Thornhill wrote:
Incorrect. NAIFA is ex NALU, which is the oldest organization of financial services professionals in the United States.
NALU has been around forever, but NAIFA is new, even though it's nothing more than a renaming of an old organization.NAIFA is approaching banks and brokerage houses in an attempt to build participation in their local chapters--something NALU did not do, or was unable to do.Several of us went to a NAIFA gathering on Long Island--we were unimpressed with the quality of the "professionals" we met.  Poorly dressed, poorly spoken, poorly educated--but a possible source of referals.We would never hire them, but we were more than willing to attempt to exploit them.In any case, if a stock broker type--say with Merrill--wants to access the LUTC training program it is my understanding that they will have to join NAIFA.  Am I right?
No, you are not right.
They offer a discount on course tuition to NAIFA members.
If you are going to make sarcastic remarks and answer questions that are not put to you, it might be advisable to know more about the subject than the questioner, which you clearly do not.  Just a nickel's worth of free advice.

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:If you are going to make sarcastic remarks and
answer questions that are not put to you, it might be advisable to know
more about the subject than the questioner, which you clearly do
not.  Just a nickel's worth of free advice.

Let me see if I have this right.  You indicated that you had no idea what LUTC meant and  had never heard of NAIFA.

I indicated that I was aware of both, and had actually been to a NAIFA
expo thing on Long Island and you're whining that I should know what
I'm talking about?

We've gone through the looking glass.

Starka's picture
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When did I say I wasn't aware of either?  I was asking if the training was geared specifically to insurance.  I never mentioned the NAIFA.
Read before pulling the trigger there, junior.

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:When did I say I wasn't aware of either?  I was
asking if the training was geared specifically to insurance.  I
never mentioned the NAIFA.
Read before pulling the trigger there, junior.

Seeing as NAIFA is almost unknown name, even in the insurance industry,
it defies credulity that a moron such as yourself would have heard of
it.

As for LUTC, you had no idea what it meant--so how in the world would
you have known anything about the insurance side of the biz?

You're a joke Starka, everybody knows it.

By the way, you forgot to say if your mother was married to your father
or was he just a guy who passed through her life for a few weeks years
ago?  You know how it is in the community and all.

Starka's picture
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Wow.  I guess you told me!
Try to imagine my chagrin.

rightway's picture
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Put Trader wrote:
rightway wrote:I started in a bank, and I was told to read series 7 material in week
1, take a week long review class in week 2, then take the 7 on that
Saturday...which my group did.  10 out of 13 passed.

Let's see if that makes sense.  Nah, it doesn't.......
....meaning fat and ugly smart-people who were capable of passing
Series 7 while the folks out pressing the flesh found that it took them
two or three times to pass the Series 6, but at least they're not fat
and ugly.

I started as I stated.  No series 6, just a 7,63,life and variable
contracts...circa early 1990's.  Series 7 was REQUIRED in our
program, series 6 was not enough.  We did not all sit in branches,
we had separate investment consulting centers around town as well as
branch office locations. 

As for the 7, we got the books and did out best to read them during the
1st week, but we passed based on the 1 week review course.  We all
took our exam on Saturday, all done in just over 2 weeks. 
Period.  I am not proud of this, I actually think it is sad.

As for bank programs, I was the first batch of reps in the program and
watched it grow all through the 1990's.  Put, your description is
more of a structure today, but not then. An it certainly is not a
depiction of the program I was a part of.

Your right...I disdain bank programs as a whole.  This has alot to
do with the fact much of the management spews un-informed garbage like
you.  This is unrelated to the accuracy of my own beginnings
though.  You all can take it as you wish.

Roger Thornhill's picture
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Put Trader wrote: Let me see if I have this right.  You indicated that you had no idea what LUTC meant and  had never heard of NAIFA.
I know for a fact that Starka is aware of both, since we've both posted about it before, so you're pulling this out of your arse.
That means you do not have it right. Again.

Roger Thornhill's picture
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Put Trader wrote: Seeing as NAIFA is almost unknown name, even in the insurance industry, it defies credulity that a moron such as yourself would have heard of it.
Seeing that you don't know much about the insurance industry, perhaps you should stick to a subject you know something about.
NAIFA is most certainly well known among the life insurance industry.
Like most associations, some chapters are stronger than others. I've been to some that were lacking (like yours in Long Island), and I've been to some that were superb.
Unlike you, I don't judge a book by its cover. Some of those people you were making fun of earn more in a month than you earn all year long.

rightway's picture
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Put Trader wrote:
Starka wrote:

As for LUTC, you had no idea what it meant--so how in the world would
you have known anything about the insurance side of the biz?

You're a joke Starka, everybody knows it.

Put-

A few weeks back you failed to be able to articulate basics of Alpha,
St. Dev, and a few other basics anyone who took a series 7 or
understands a Morningstar report could understand.  I believe your
answer was "beats the hell out of me"  then you dismissed your
ignorance by claiming it was not important.--so how in the world would
you have known anything about the investment side of the biz?

Answer?  You don't.  So, Put- take a minute and look up a few
more definitions and make your next post.  We all are waiting...

Put Trader's picture
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rightway wrote:

Put-

A few weeks back you failed to be able to articulate basics of Alpha,
St. Dev, and a few other basics anyone who took a series 7 or
understands a Morningstar report could understand.  I believe your
answer was "beats the hell out of me"  then you dismissed your
ignorance by claiming it was not important.--so how in the world would
you have known anything about the investment side of the biz?

Answer?  You don't.  So, Put- take a minute and look up a few
more definitions and make your next post.  We all are waiting...

Failed to articulate the basics of Alpha, Standard Deviations, and the
like?  No I didn't what I said was that in the hands of amatures
such things have a way of blowing up.

You are a rank amature and seem to be on a frenzy of wanting to "add
alpha" to your client's portfolios.  I supect you read about it in
a newsletter and decided that that is what your clients need.

All I am saying is that alpha works both ways--if you can goose your
portfolio by an additional 10% in a rally you will slam dunk it an
additional 10% in a decline.

I am saying that you are too stupid to know what you're doing and it's
best to stay away from it.  I'm not stupid by any means, in fact I
am so smart that I know where I do not belong--and making amature
attempts to add alpha is not where I belong.

Finally, it would be fun to hear what you think is a sample Series 7 question dealing with Alpha.

Put Trader's picture
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rightway wrote:

As for the 7, we got the books and did out best to read them during the
1st week, but we passed based on the 1 week review course.  We all
took our exam on Saturday, all done in just over 2 weeks. 
Period.  I am not proud of this, I actually think it is sad.

I'm sixty, and I do not think I have ever encountered and individual so pathelogical in their desire to lie.

Rightway was given every opportunity to back away from stupid
comments--but instead he reinforces them--the sign of a true
pathelogical liar.

Tell me, if you read an entire Series 7 textbook in a week--when did you do sample questions?

Tell me, if you were in a week long cram course from Monday through
Friday, then took the test on Saturday just when did you to sample
questions?

And finally I will cut to the chase--you are a liar regarding a bank
program that requires people to get a Series 7.  There is NO BANK
PROGRAM--not one--that requires a Series 7.

I suggest you're so stupid you don't even know that all you hold is a Series 6.

rightway's picture
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Put Trader wrote:
rightway wrote:

As for the 7, we got the books and did out best to read them during the
1st week, but we passed based on the 1 week review course.  We all
took our exam on Saturday, all done in just over 2 weeks. 
Period.  I am not proud of this, I actually think it is sad.

I'm sixty, and I do not think I have ever encountered and individual so pathelogical in their desire to lie.

Rightway was given every opportunity to back away from stupid
comments--but instead he reinforces them--the sign of a true
pathelogical liar.

Tell me, if you read an entire Series 7 textbook in a week--when did you do sample questions?

Tell me, if you were in a week long cram course from Monday through
Friday, then took the test on Saturday just when did you to sample
questions?

And finally I will cut to the chase--you are a liar regarding a bank
program that requires people to get a Series 7.  There is NO BANK
PROGRAM--not one--that requires a Series 7.

I suggest you're so stupid you don't even know that all you hold is a Series 6.

Your wrong.

Roger Thornhill's picture
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Put Trader wrote: And finally I will cut to the chase--you are a liar regarding a bank program that requires people to get a Series 7.  There is NO BANK PROGRAM--not one--that requires a Series 7.
Large banks with serious trust departments have portfolio managers that are required to have a 7. This isn't new, either. They've had 7s about as long as one could take the test.
You must live in a small town.
A VERY small town.

Starka's picture
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Judging by the kind of nonsense that ClerkBoy puts out Roger, I'd wager that he lives in a small universe, which is to say, his own little malfuntioning universe.

Put Trader's picture
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Roger Thornhill wrote:
Large banks with serious trust departments have portfolio managers
that are required to have a 7. This isn't new, either. They've had 7s
about as long as one could take the test.
You must live in a small town.
A VERY small town.

My building has more residents than a small town.

Tell me, is there a difference between a portfolio manager in a trust department and the job that Rightway is talking about?

Also, why would a portfolio manager need a Series 7, what with being on the buy side and all?

Put Trader's picture
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rightway wrote:
Put Trader wrote:

I suggest you're so stupid you don't even know that all you hold is a Series 6.

Your wrong.

It's you're, as in you are.

In any case, I reiterate that you simply do not know that you only have
a Series 6.  It is impossible for 10 out of 13 people who spent no
time doing sample questions to pass Series 7.

Every piece of advice given on this forum is to do sample question
until you can't stand it any longer, then take a break followed by
doing some more.

Yet you, fool, actually believe that the rest of us think that you did
it without doing a single sample question.  And are you not also
the goof who claims that you passed while allowing no more than 15
seconds per question.

I repeat--it's pathelogical lying on parade.

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As for the 7, we got the books and did out best to read them during the 1st week, but we passed based on the 1 week review course.  We all took our exam on Saturday, all done in just over 2 weeks.  Period.  I am not proud of this, I actually think it is sad.
I don't know about passing the 7 with this type of program. But I can tell you that that was how my bank platform did the insurance licensing, many many moons ago. About 15 yrs ago they sent us to a half day cram course where they basically force fed us the answers to the insurance exam for life, health and property/casualty. We crammed the info into our heads from 8to 1:00 and then got up and walked directly into the next room, took the test (rather puked up the answeres) and if passed got fingerprinted on our way out the door.   On Monday the manager of the program said "OK, go sell annuities. Here is one with a bonus rate."   Many of the crew were: "Duh, what is an annuity?" 
And so, a sales force of untrained, ignorant used to be tellers and loan officers were unleased on the unsuspecting yet oddly trusting Bank customers.  Is it any wonder that the insurance/annuity/bank platform has a terrible reputation. Also it is no wonder that now to get your insurance license it requires accredited classroom time and requires more hours of CE to maintain a license.   That is actually a good thing. 
There is NO BANK PROGRAM--not one--that requires a Series 7.
I believe that you are right.  In fact, most Bank programs actively discourage Series 7 due to compliance and the need to have adequate tech infrastructure to support it.  Usually in the Bank programs only the manager has a 7 and rarely use it.  However, anymore, Banks outsource or contract their programs to independent firms.  Raymond James and Financial Network are two that come to mind in my local area.

rightway's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

Put Trader wrote:
Roger Thornhill wrote:
Large banks with serious trust departments have portfolio managers
that are required to have a 7. This isn't new, either. They've had 7s
about as long as one could take the test.
You must live in a small town.
A VERY small town.

My building has more residents than a small town.

Tell me, is there a difference between a portfolio manager in a trust department and the job that Rightway is talking about?

Also, why would a portfolio manager need a Series 7, what with being on the buy side and all?

Forget the portfolio manager for a moment.  A client comes in with
a CD for 100K and in the process decides to transfer $200K in from
another firm.  In that account, there is a concentrated position
in 1 stock.  They wanted the consultants to be able to advise on
situations beyond mutual funds and annuities.  A 7 is required for
this, and that is what was, and is, required for that program.

As for portfolio managers (outside of covenants of the Trust Indenture
Act), there are discretionary programs in banks where a 7 and 65 are
required.

Put Trader's picture
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Joined: 2005-04-08

babbling looney wrote:
I don't know about passing the 7 with this type of program. But I
can tell you that that was how my bank platform did the insurance
licensing, many many moons ago. About 15 yrs ago they sent us to a
half day cram course where they basically force fed us the answers to
the insurance exam for life, health and property/casualty. We crammed
the info into our heads from 8to 1:00 and then got up and walked
directly into the next room, took the test (rather puked up
the answeres) and if passed got fingerprinted on our way out the
door.   On Monday the manager of the program said "OK, go
sell annuities. Here is one with a bonus rate."   Many
of the crew were: "Duh, what is an annuity?" 
And so, a sales force of untrained, ignorant used to be tellers and
loan officers were unleased on the unsuspecting yet oddly trusting Bank
customers.  Is it any wonder that the insurance/annuity/bank
platform has a terrible reputation. Also it is no wonder that now to
get your insurance license it requires accredited classroom time and
requires more hours of CE to maintain a license.   That is
actually a good thing. 

Puked out the answers--what a great line.

There are a couple of things worth noting.  Insurance licensing
exams are administered by state government--and state government is
obsessed on leveling the playing field and as a result the questions
are in the public domain.  Those old fashioned cram school
literally taught the test and it was possible to do exactly what Looney
is suggesting.

That was NEVER the case with securities exams.  First they are
administered by a private organization--the NASD is not government--and
steps have alway been taken to keep the exams as secret as they can be.

If a certain question gets answered correctly too much--determined by
the computer--it is deleted because apparently it has leaked out to the
training departments and independent schools.

Similarly, if a question is missed too frequently it is also reviewed for clues as to why.

Years ago a question was "Prior to opening a new options account, the registered representative should....."

It was a Roman numeral type question and the answers were not all that hard so we couldn't figure out why it was missed so much.

Finally somebody suggested that the phrase "Prior to opening...."
should be changed to "Before opening....."  That seemed to be the
problem because as soon as "Prior to" was changed to "Before" the
percentage of people getting it correct increased.

And to think that there are those who believe that younger people don't have the basic skills.

rightway's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-02

Put Trader wrote:
babbling looney wrote:
I don't know about passing the 7 with this type of program. But I
can tell you that that was how my bank platform did the insurance
licensing, many many moons ago. About 15 yrs ago they sent us to a
half day cram course where they basically force fed us the answers to
the insurance exam for life, health and property/casualty. We crammed
the info into our heads from 8to 1:00 and then got up and walked
directly into the next room, took the test (rather puked up
the answeres) and if passed got fingerprinted on our way out the
door.   On Monday the manager of the program said "OK, go
sell annuities. Here is one with a bonus rate."   Many
of the crew were: "Duh, what is an annuity?" 
And so, a sales force of untrained, ignorant used to be tellers and
loan officers were unleased on the unsuspecting yet oddly trusting Bank
customers.  Is it any wonder that the insurance/annuity/bank
platform has a terrible reputation. Also it is no wonder that now to
get your insurance license it requires accredited classroom time and
requires more hours of CE to maintain a license.   That is
actually a good thing. 

Puked out the answers--what a great line.

There are a couple of things worth noting.  Insurance licensing
exams are administered by state government--and state government is
obsessed on leveling the playing field and as a result the questions
are in the public domain.  Those old fashioned cram school
literally taught the test and it was possible to do exactly what Looney
is suggesting.

That was NEVER the case with securities exams.  First they are
administered by a private organization--the NASD is not government--and
steps have alway been taken to keep the exams as secret as they can be.

If a certain question gets answered correctly too much--determined by
the computer--it is deleted because apparently it has leaked out to the
training departments and independent schools.

Similarly, if a question is missed too frequently it is also reviewed for clues as to why.

Years ago a question was "Prior to opening a new options account, the registered representative should....."

It was a Roman numeral type question and the answers were not all that hard so we couldn't figure out why it was missed so much.

Finally somebody suggested that the phrase "Prior to opening...."
should be changed to "Before opening....."  That seemed to be the
problem because as soon as "Prior to" was changed to "Before" the
percentage of people getting it correct increased.

And to think that there are those who believe that younger people don't have the basic skills.

Hence my dislike of bank programs as a whole.

Put Trader's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-04-08

rightway wrote:

As for portfolio managers (outside of covenants of the Trust Indenture
Act), there are discretionary programs in banks where a 7 and 65 are
required.

What does "Outside the covenants of the Trust Indenture Act"
mean?  It seems like you're a teenager writing a paper that will
be graded by somebody who only counts the words.

"Why I be matriculting on my vacation as soon as I be enticing the mail deliery to be stopped."

Back to the basic question.  Why would a portfolio manager need a
Series 7 license?  What percentage of the nation's bank trust
officers do you suppose have it?

Is a portfolio manager supposed to raise money for a portfolio or decide how the money that is raised is invested?

Put Trader's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-04-08

rightway wrote:

Hence my dislike of bank programs as a whole.

A review of your contributions to this forum would reveal a guy who has
failed at every opportunity--drifting form place to place, bitching
about horrible management everywhere you went.

For people like you the problem is you, not where you work, not who you work for, not the product line, not the customer base.

You're sitting out there worried about "adding Alpha" when what you should be doing is selling.

If you want to add Alpha become a portfolio manager--get away from the
sell side to the buy side.  Convince somebody that you're what
they need to manage their "Alpha Added Fund" and they'll give you a
cubicle--perhaps a small office--where you can sit there and play with
standard deviations till the cows come home.

It will be a lot more rewarding than being an actuary at an insurance
company--or doing car count studies for a state's Department of Motor
Vehicles.

What's happened Rightway is you find yourself pretending to be
something you're not--and you are so out of touch with the reality of
what the rest of us do (or did) that you've become a pathelogical liar
in an attempt to appear to know what you're talking about.

rightway's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-02

Put Trader wrote:
rightway wrote:

As for portfolio managers (outside of covenants of the Trust Indenture
Act), there are discretionary programs in banks where a 7 and 65 are
required.

What does "Outside the covenants of the Trust Indenture Act"
mean?  It seems like you're a teenager writing a paper that will
be graded by somebody who only counts the words.

"Why I be matriculting on my vacation as soon as I be enticing the mail deliery to be stopped."

Back to the basic question.  Why would a portfolio manager need a
Series 7 license?  What percentage of the nation's bank trust
officers do you suppose have it?

Is a portfolio manager supposed to raise money for a portfolio or decide how the money that is raised is invested?

In order to make buy and sell recomendations to clients on stocks and
bonds, a license is required.  However, the Trust Indenture Act is
a blanket covering bank Trust Dept's, so they are not reuired to get
the "series licenses" required by reps in B/D's.  A trust Dept
hires an MBA type and has them run money, thats it.

I think a few years ago, very few bank trust officers had a 7, however
this is changing as the walls between the Bank B/D and the Trust Dept's
are coming down.  In essence, you will have 1 sales force, meet
with the prospect, they will direct them to Trust and/or B/D. 
This will require all get a 7.

Put Trader's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-04-08

rightway wrote:

In order to make buy and sell recomendations to clients on stocks and
bonds, a license is required.  However, the Trust Indenture Act is
a blanket covering bank Trust Dept's, so they are not reuired to get
the "series licenses" required by reps in B/D's.  A trust Dept
hires an MBA type and has them run money, thats it.

I think a few years ago, very few bank trust officers had a 7, however
this is changing as the walls between the Bank B/D and the Trust Dept's
are coming down.  In essence, you will have 1 sales force, meet
with the prospect, they will direct them to Trust and/or B/D. 
This will require all get a 7.

Do you think the word "Trust" in "Trust Indenture Act" means a bank's trust department?

Is the Series 7 required of people who make recommendations, or of
people who earn commissions if those recommendations are acted upon?

rightway's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-02

Put Trader wrote:
rightway wrote:

And finally I will cut to the chase--you are a liar regarding a bank
program that requires people to get a Series 7.  There is NO BANK
PROGRAM--not one--that requires a Series 7.

I suggest you're so stupid you don't even know that all you hold is a Series 6.

Put- your an idiot.

- US Bank Corp.

While we expect that
you’ll possess a strong basic skill set, including excellent
communication and people skills, strong analytical and problem-solving
skills, and the ability to work effectively in a team or independently,
we also require:

  • Strong analytical skills to assess client’s needs
  • The ability to work effectively on a team or independently
  • Initiative, self-motivation with a drive to succeed
  • The ability to prioritize your client base and follow through on all client communications
  • A professional attitude and reliable work style.
  • Excellent oral and written communication skills
  • College degree preferred, with at least two years job-related experience in a bank environment.
  • Series 7, 63 and State Insurance licenses

http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=31766506&amp ;AVSDM=2005%2D07%2D07+12%3A01%3A47&Logo=1&opt=go&amp ;sort=rv&vw=b&cy=US&brd=1,1862,1863&rad=50&a mp;q=financial%20consultant

rightway's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-02

Just for Fun Put- here is another,not that you qualify.

Financial
Consultant is responsible for selling appropriate financial services
products to potential clients and performing business development
activities.Requires: 2 to 5 years of direct investment sales
experience with proven production; thorough knowledge of investment
products including mutual funds, annuities, stocks and bonds. Must have
NASD Series 7 and 63 licenses along with a Life and Disability license.Strong sales, verbal and presentation skills are essential.

  • NASD Series 7&63 and L&D licenses required.
  • Minimum 2 years experience required.
  • Proven production required.
  • Bank program preferred.

Washington
Mutual is an Equal Opportunity Employer. Anyone needing accommodation
to complete the interview process should notify the recruiter.

rightway's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-02

Put-

Try this one

PNC Investments, the
retail broker-dealer subsidiary of PNC Bank, is a premier brokerage
firm with a sales culture on client needs rather than product-oriented
selling. We are currently seeking qualified Senior Financial
Consultants to join our team of investment professionals.This
position requires 3-5 years of experience in a broker-dealer role and
possession of NASD Series 7 and 63 licenses. This experience should
include a thorough understanding of investment markets and products
with a proven ability to meet revenue goals. A bachelor's degree in
Business, Finance, or related field is preferred.

Put Trader's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-04-08

rightway wrote:
Put Trader wrote:
rightway wrote:

And finally I will cut to the chase--you are a liar regarding a bank
program that requires people to get a Series 7.  There is NO BANK
PROGRAM--not one--that requires a Series 7.

I suggest you're so stupid you don't even know that all you hold is a Series 6.

Put- your an idiot.

- US Bank Corp.

While we expect that
you’ll possess a strong basic skill set, including excellent
communication and people skills, strong analytical and problem-solving
skills, and the ability to work effectively in a team or independently,
we also require:

  • Strong analytical skills to assess client’s needs
  • The ability to work effectively on a team or independently
  • Initiative, self-motivation with a drive to succeed
  • The ability to prioritize your client base and follow through on all client communications
  • A professional attitude and reliable work style.
  • Excellent oral and written communication skills
  • College degree preferred, with at least two years job-related experience in a bank environment.
  • Series 7, 63 and State Insurance licenses

What you said was that you were hired by a bank without a license and
that the bank handed you a 1,000 page textbook and another 1,000 pages
of sample questions which you digested in a week, then you attended a
week long cram couse and took the test on the day after the cram course
ended.

Now what you're saying is that US Bancorp has a website that invites those who ALREADY HAVE their Series 7 to apply for a job.

Are you bright enough to grasp the intellectual disconnect?

A harsh truth is that banks have to hire Series 7's from outside
because their own, home grown, pool of talent is not bright enough to
pass the exam.

rightway's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-02

Put-

I think this is more your speed-

THIS IS A DIRECT HIRE POSITION, NOT TEMPORARY. MUST HAVE AVAILABILITY TO START WITHIN NEXT WEEK!Industrial Cleaning company located in Channahon, Illinois has immediate need for Truck Drivers/Laborers. You must possess a current ACDL license, BCDL license or permit required. You willneed to pass a driving test at the customer's facility. Drug screen and back ground check required. SAFETY IS A MUST!!

Put Trader's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-04-08

Put- your an idiot.

Rightway--what is wrong with that?

Put Trader's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-04-08

rightway wrote:Put-

I think this is more your speed-

THIS IS A DIRECT HIRE POSITION, NOT TEMPORARY. MUST HAVE AVAILABILITY TO START WITHIN NEXT WEEK!Industrial Cleaning company located in Channahon, Illinois has immediate need for Truck Drivers/Laborers. You must possess a current ACDL license, BCDL license or permit required. You willneed to pass a driving test at the customer's facility. Drug screen and back ground check required. SAFETY IS A MUST!!

My read on that is that poor old Rightway is about to wash out at his
latest employer and is studying the want ads, or surfing Monster.

I suspect he's banging his head against the wall because he cannot pass
Series 7 and has found that his Series 6 isn't worth much.  He
knows, just knows, that he'd be able to soar like an eagle if he could
just get past Series 7.

Maybe fourth time will be a charm if he can just hold out for the six
months he  has to wait after failing it for the third time.

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