Some info bout Edward Jones,is this true?

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RickJames's picture
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Joined: 2006-03-24

I read some stuff about Edward Jones about how the training is good,
but it's a terrible place to work because they literally fool you into
thinking you're gonna make it big, but it's really kind of a scheme to
suck out all the customers you draw in.  I hear you can't bring
customers with you if you try to leave.  I also heard that much of
what Edward Jones says about having your own assistant and being in an
office is more of an embellishment than anything and that it's actually
really hard to get that.  Can someone give me some insight on
EDJ?  I've read a few posts and people have not recommended
working there, but I kind of want to know exactly why.  If there's
an earlier post on it, please give me the link because I can't find it.

BigLew's picture
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Joined: 2005-12-20

(1)  All firms try to discourage your clients from following you if you go to another firm. Most firms have you sign a non-compete clause. Most brokers can get around this if they jump ship.
(2) Every EDJ broker in a short period of time does get their own office and office assistant.
(3) Most brokers rip on EDJ because they believe we have a "holier than thou" attitdue and our lack of a fee based platform.
(3) I have been w/EDJ for many years and am very happy with my career here.  People can be happy and successful at many other firms.
(5) Fortune magazine has consistantly rated us one of the top 100 firms to work for.  We were ranked #1 a few years ago.
 
 
 
 

RickJames's picture
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Joined: 2006-03-24

Can I hear from some of the people who don't recommend EDJ?  I want to know why they don't think it's good.  Thanks!

RickJames's picture
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BigLew wrote:(1)  All firms try to discourage your clients
from following you if you go to another firm. Most firms have you sign
a non-compete clause. Most brokers can get around this if they jump
ship.
(2) Every EDJ broker in a short period of time does get their own office and office assistant.
(3) Most brokers rip on EDJ because they believe we have a "holier than thou" attitdue and our lack of a fee based platform.
(3) I have been w/EDJ for many years and am very happy with my
career here.  People can be happy and successful at many other
firms.
(5) Fortune magazine has consistantly rated us one of the top 100 firms to work for.  We were ranked #1 a few years ago.

Also, nowhere did you say that you can bring your clients with you when
you leave.  So is that true that you can't bring your clients if
you go indy or go to another firm?

RR352's picture
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Joined: 2006-03-15

BigLew wrote: (1)  All firms try to discourage your clients from following you if you go to another firm. Most firms have you sign a non-compete clause. Most brokers can get around this if they jump ship.
(2) Every EDJ broker in a short period of time does get their own office and office assistant.
(3) Most brokers rip on EDJ because they believe we have a "holier than thou" attitdue and our lack of a fee based platform.
(3) I have been w/EDJ for many years and am very happy with my career here.  People can be happy and successful at many other firms.
(5) Fortune magazine has consistantly rated us one of the top 100 firms to work for.  We were ranked #1 a few years ago.
 
 
 
 

I to work for jones. everyone does not get an office in a short peroid of time. Most won't even make it. I have only been out a short while and most that have started with me are no longer here. Not that jones is a bad place. They have a good program to get you past the series 7. But then you will work from your house until you qualify for an office.

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-31

If you look back through these boards, there are several examples of former Jones reps that left and took the vast majority of their client base with them.  I've not worked for Jones, but the biggest negatives I hear regularly is (1)lack of (or twisted/skewed) management communication (2)lack of product breadth, (3)lack of a satisfactory fee-based alternative, (4)ongoing effort to brainwash reps into thinking that Jones is the best alternative (5)perceived employee/management arrogance, (6)lack of opportunity to advance through LP, and (7)bad hair/teeth and/or polyester suits.  There are probably others, but if you look around, you'll see these crop up again and again.  Yet, at the same time, it is obvious that there are plenty of folks like Big Lew who are just as happay as can be with Jones, so like anything, it is probably a matter of the firm fitting with your personality.

compliancejerk's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-03

Indyone,
Best description of the ex employer I've read in a long time

Big Easy Flood's picture
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Indyone wrote:If you look back through these boards, there are several examples of former Jones reps that left and took the vast majority of their client base with them.  I've not worked for Jones, but the biggest negatives I hear regularly is (1)lack of (or twisted/skewed) management communication (2)lack of product breadth, (3)lack of a satisfactory fee-based alternative, (4)ongoing effort to brainwash reps into thinking that Jones is the best alternative (5)perceived employee/management arrogance, (6)lack of opportunity to advance through LP, and (7)bad hair/teeth and/or polyester suits.  There are probably others, but if you look around, you'll see these crop up again and again.  Yet, at the same time, it is obvious that there are plenty of folks like Big Lew who are just as happay as can be with Jones, so like anything, it is probably a matter of the firm fitting with your personality.
 
Those who read the poison pen attacks on Jones would be well advised to rememeber that they are all written by disgruntled former employees.  Most are actually on their way out the industry's door and are simply taking a shot at one of the places that they failed.
There is not a failed salesperson out there who doesn't blame their failure on not having enough to sell.  The reality is that somebody selling at Jones has what they need to serve their cients.  They may not have Fund X and a prospect may want Fund X, but if they were somewhere else anohter prospect would want Fund Y and it would  not be availale to them.
Whining about a lack of management communication is curious in light of the fact that most Jones types crave the independence they offer.  They fill the niche between being a "wire house slave" and the feeling of being all alone against the world that is common among those who go completely independent.
Ongoing effort to brain wash Jones Reps into thinking Jones is the best alternative?  Say it's not so, you mean an employer actually tries to convince their employees that their firm is the best?
Perceived managment arrogance.  There is not a soldier alive who doesn't think his commanding officer is an arrogant moron.  It's a concept as old as time.  Sometimes the leader is arrogant, but more often than not it's nothing more than the bitching that made Beetle Bailey and Ernie Pyle's whiners famous and their creators rich.
Lack of opportunity to advance.  What is the realistic opportunity for a guy at a Smith Barney office somewhere in Iowa?  If he's lucky he might get to manage a branch down the street from the Edward Jones guy who is managing his branch.  In almost every business in the country the air gets very rarified very fast when you try to move into management.  It's not a lack of opportunity so much as it's a lack of what it takes to be offered the opportunity.
Bad hair, teeth and polyester suits.  Childish, but what difference does that make to somebody anyway.  How in the world would you be negatively affected by the way somebody else looks or dresses?  If anything it would make you look so much better by comparision.
There are thousands of Jones offices out there, and half a dozen whiners on an Internet message boards.  If you're thinking of Jones don't read what you hear from the whiners, walk into their offices and talk to the man or woman who is in charge.

Revealer's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-13

Yeh. And that person is going to say what? Best firm on the street. We're BETTER than the rest. (Just look @ their ad campaign). I've never worked for jones, but in my many yrs. of observing how they do biz., I GENERALLY run into more unethical conduct w/jones reps than ANY other competitor. I attribute this conduct to a level of "rookieism" and "blinderism". Just do what the firm says and you'll be successful. Yeh,right....by whose standards? I intensely DESPISE those who give bad advice, screw people over for a trip, adopt a holier than thou attitude. Go to work for a REAL brokerage firm. At least compare. 

Big Easy Flood's picture
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Revealer wrote:
I GENERALLY run into more unethical conduct w/jones reps than ANY other competitor. 
 
And are you a head of compliance with a national firm?
How many different Jones brokers, across the country, do you encounter as competition.  You know, so that you can say that you run into "more unethical conduct?"
The very nature of Jones' business plan means that any one of us is not likely to "compete" with more than two or three Jones brokers and for most people there will be one Jones broker as competition.
Even if the sleaziest Jones broker in their entire organization has the office down the street from you you're being intellectually dishonest to conclude that every Jones broker is as sleazy as that guy.
The point is this.  Your perspective is very narrow, especially if you operate in a small town.  There are those who would consider you to be sleazy.  Would they be right, or would that be an unfair accusation?
Unless you are an NASD complance type, or a senior complaince officer of a firm, you have no idea what goes on just beyond your frame of reference.

noggin's picture
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Revealer wrote:Yeh. And that person is going to say what? Best firm on the street. We're BETTER than the rest. (Just look @ their ad campaign). I've never worked for jones, but in my many yrs. of observing how they do biz., I GENERALLY run into more unethical conduct w/jones reps than ANY other competitor. I attribute this conduct to a level of "rookieism" and "blinderism". Just do what the firm says and you'll be successful. Yeh,right....by whose standards? I intensely DESPISE those who give bad advice, screw people over for a trip, adopt a holier than thou attitude. Go to work for a REAL brokerage firm. At least compare. 
The ad campaign is "Making Sense of Investing". How in the world can you possibly misconstrue that to say that is saying Jones is better than the rest? In my neck of the woods I run across more unethical folks at RJFS, LPL and AGE but that doesn't mean they are not great firms to work for. To each his own, but at least be objective with a gripe.

Indyone's picture
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Big Easy Flood wrote:
Revealer wrote:
I GENERALLY run into more unethical conduct w/jones reps than ANY other competitor. 
 
And are you a head of compliance with a national firm?
How many different Jones brokers, across the country, do you encounter as competition.  You know, so that you can say that you run into "more unethical conduct?"
The very nature of Jones' business plan means that any one of us is not likely to "compete" with more than two or three Jones brokers and for most people there will be one Jones broker as competition.
Even if the sleaziest Jones broker in their entire organization has the office down the street from you you're being intellectually dishonest to conclude that every Jones broker is as sleazy as that guy.
The point is this.  Your perspective is very narrow, especially if you operate in a small town.  There are those who would consider you to be sleazy.  Would they be right, or would that be an unfair accusation?
Unless you are an NASD complance type, or a senior complaince officer of a firm, you have no idea what goes on just beyond your frame of reference.
Wow...if you're NOT Put Trader, you're doing a damn good imitation of him.

ezmoney's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

i thought lance sounded alot like put trader also.

Revealer's picture
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noggin wrote:
Revealer wrote:Yeh. And that person is going to say what? Best firm on the street. We're BETTER than the rest. (Just look @ their ad campaign). I've never worked for jones, but in my many yrs. of observing how they do biz., I GENERALLY run into more unethical conduct w/jones reps than ANY other competitor. I attribute this conduct to a level of "rookieism" and "blinderism". Just do what the firm says and you'll be successful. Yeh,right....by whose standards? I intensely DESPISE those who give bad advice, screw people over for a trip, adopt a holier than thou attitude. Go to work for a REAL brokerage firm. At least compare. 
The ad campaign is "Making Sense of Investing". How in the world can you possibly misconstrue that to say that is saying Jones is better than the rest? In my neck of the woods I run across more unethical folks at RJFS, LPL and AGE but that doesn't mean they are not great firms to work for. To each his own, but at least be objective with a gripe.

Revealer's picture
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I particularily like the one in the auction house IMPLYING that jones doesn't encourage buying/selling. Tell the truth noggin, ok to sell something IF it fits into your firm's notion of "What makes sense". I've seen great positions blown out IF purchased somewhere else because the jones broker needed to make a quota or some othe BS reason. Just be truthful, OK?

Revealer's picture
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Big Easy Flood wrote:
Revealer wrote:
I GENERALLY run into more unethical conduct w/jones reps than ANY other competitor. 
 
And are you a head of compliance with a national firm?
How many different Jones brokers, across the country, do you encounter as competition.  You know, so that you can say that you run into "more unethical conduct?"
The very nature of Jones' business plan means that any one of us is not likely to "compete" with more than two or three Jones brokers and for most people there will be one Jones broker as competition.
Even if the sleaziest Jones broker in their entire organization has the office down the street from you you're being intellectually dishonest to conclude that every Jones broker is as sleazy as that guy.
The point is this.  Your perspective is very narrow, especially if you operate in a small town.  There are those who would consider you to be sleazy.  Would they be right, or would that be an unfair accusation?
Unless you are an NASD complance type, or a senior complaince officer of a firm, you have no idea what goes on just beyond your frame of reference.

Revealer's picture
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Not head of any compliance. I am the almighty and powerful "Revealer". Reveal me this, Flood. Why is it that the ONLIEST firm I have EVER had use liquidation forms (instead of ACATS) is jones. I'll Reveal why, because the gutless little bast**ds don't want positions showing up and then have to liquidate to switch into the "magnificant 7" (er 8). No, when you liquidate @ the delivering firm, the trf. shows up as "new" $$. (Trip involved?) OK to put the client @ mkt. risk rather than sell/buy same day? Noooo, that makes  sense for the client but not the ir. I have had NO other firm do that, only jones and several irs @ that. Tells me this is something "trained" or at least talked about @ the "diversification trips."Before you rant about me losing accts to jones...we all lose accts and certainly gain accts. The diff. is how much guts the receiving broker has and how much concern for the client. That's all the frame of reference I need.Get real Flood (BTW) I'm off line for a vacation (paid by me). So if I don't respond, don't think I'm afraid to or out of words.

Revealer's picture
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Oh, and I WOULD like a compliance type explain away my previous post. How about a jones compliance person? How about a reporter who I know reads this forum? How about ANOTHER WSJ article exposing THIS practice? 

ezmoney's picture
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most everything that is said about EJ is true. I worked for them.

noggin's picture
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Revealer wrote:Not head of any compliance. I am the almighty and powerful "Revealer". Reveal me this, Flood. Why is it that the ONLIEST firm I have EVER had use liquidation forms (instead of ACATS) is jones. I'll Reveal why, because the gutless little bast**ds don't want positions showing up and then have to liquidate to switch into the "magnificant 7" (er 8). No, when you liquidate @ the delivering firm, the trf. shows up as "new" $$. (Trip involved?) OK to put the client @ mkt. risk rather than sell/buy same day? Noooo, that makes  sense for the client but not the ir. I have had NO other firm do that, only jones and several irs @ that. Tells me this is something "trained" or at least talked about @ the "diversification trips."Before you rant about me losing accts to jones...we all lose accts and certainly gain accts. The diff. is how much guts the receiving broker has and how much concern for the client. That's all the frame of reference I need.Get real Flood (BTW) I'm off line for a vacation (paid by me). So if I don't respond, don't think I'm afraid to or out of words.
I can't speak for the company but I can speak for myself and the way I run my business. I typically don't liqudate and ACAT because of many of the same reasons that you have illustrated. I am doing an ACAT on Monday that is in MFS and AIM that I am going to keep it there but make better choices for the client. It really bothers me about our industry that if one brings in an account in cash that there is much more latitude given but if it is transferred in-kind there is a totally different level of consideration given. I hope all of this makes sense.

BYEBYEJONES's picture
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RickJames, Maybe I can give you some insight here. I left Jones a few months ago after being there for about 6 months. Please be careful of what you read on these boards as a lot of postings here come from "Jones Haters". I, neither dislike or like Jones. I think Jones can be a good fit for some, for me it wasn't.
The best advice to give you is do your research. I did not do that. I visited a Jones broker and yes he convinced me that they were the best. Have your own business, be your own boss, have your freedom, work hard and you can play hard. If I got hired he would get referral credits towards a trip. I thought I really liked that and didn't visit any others, BIG MISTAKE.  Everyone did paint a really good picture at Jones, but its where they live.  It sounds like you think that they hire people so that they will fail and leave there assets. Thats not true, they want you to succeed. Most people there are great.
Make sure you know what you are getting into. Out of my traing class there are 2 people left who didn't take over an office and by now they may not even be there. You can either start from scratch or fall into a book. The odds are definitely against you if you are new, but it can be done.  
As for your other questions, no firm is going to give you your customers with open arms. If that time comes, the best thing to do is speak with the firm to which you are going, they will give you advice on how to proceed. This stuff happens daily in this biz.
Jones training program is a great program when preparing you for the 7. They say they are among the highest pass % in the industry. From there, it kinda goes down hill. You then start doorknocking. you introduce yourself and that you are opening a office in the area. I thought this was a waste of time because you cant sell yet. Then finally you get your can sell. You meet these people once, back on there door step for the second time....good luck with that one. That is the part I couldn't stand. I didn't realize my fear of dogs until I was a door to door salesman. Nothing can prepare you for Doorknocking except just doing it. If you can do that, then you will succeed.
I never did get an office or an assistant. For most people in my region that never came for about a year. I was broke, working out of my home/car and hated every day.       GOOD LUCK!

RR352's picture
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Well put BYEBYEJONES. I currently work at jones. I have yet to figure out if it is really a fit for me. But you need to do the research on other places. I did the same and was sold on jones and never even talked to anyone else. I have since been looking and have found that since I live in an rural community that there are not many options for me. LPL, RJ, AIG etc... are looking for someone already producing 125K - 250K.

I think it is nice tho have a big name like EDJ, ML, SB behind you in the beginning. However people will be forming a relationship with you not the broker/dealer.

I would suggest as above.   Make sure you do the research on all opportunities that you have. A career at any one place can be rewarding if it is a fit for you. No one here really knows you well enough to know where that fit is. Best of luck.

repwork's picture
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Hi all. I also left Jones after about 6 months. Same thing. Not for me. Like the business but the door knocking was, quite frankly, dangerous. I always wondered what might happen if I ran into a Jeffery Dahmer type (yikes!) and in fact, think I may have a couple times. The door knocking thing is really tough and all I heard was "if you do it for another 2 years, you will have a nice business." I didn't want to do it for another 2 minutes and my business was growing. Was advancing nicely and meeting all quotas (there are quotas they don't tell you about until you are in) but the thought of door knocking any longer was enough to call it quits. I suppose if you are in the right community, only game in town, and know everyone, bullish market, it could be done. In retrospect, wish I had researched other options as well. Hey ByeBye, did you go to another broker or leave the business and if you transferred, have you heard from Jones about training costs?

Big Easy Flood's picture
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Joined: 2005-08-29

There are a couple of things to be considered regarding what has been posted in the last day or two.
1.  The door knocking is a throw back to the old days.  It has become almost a rite of passage there, not unlike hazing at a fraternity house.  The, "It was good for me, it will be good for you too" mentality.
The reality is that it actally will do some good IF you ever open the storefront practice that is promised at the end of the rainbow.  I have never worked there but it seems to me that I heard that while door knocking you are supposed to get the people who answer the door to sign something that says you knocked.  Is that true?
I have also always been under the impression that before they would get you an office you had to join a church and a club such as the Rotary or the Optimists.  Is that true?  If so what they're doing, and it's a great idea, is forcin you into the "community."  As you get older you'll be glad that you are active in things.
2.  Regarding liquidating portfolios before transfering.  I too find the stories disturbing and would be interested in hearing more.  Are those of you who are there saying that the firm will allow you to transfer in assets that are invested in anything, or just certain things?
It is not uncommon for firms to require certain assets to be liquidated due to compliance concerns.  No reputable firm wants to have somebody who just got screwed by a boiler room transfer their junk into your shop because when it all hits the fan the boiler room will be gone and the reputable firm will be right there in the sights of the plaintiff's attorney.
There is so much exposure out there that most firms take the attitude that they don't want to assume the risk without the reward of having earned commissions from the client who has now turned against them.
If a firm "orders" that an incoming fund is to be liquidated that's wrong and nobody is going to say otherwise.  However there are reasons that go way beyond contests, trips, and points towards other goals.
A question to ponder.  Is telling an incoming broker to turn incoming assets into cash to be reinvested worse than offering him a 100% payout on all of his commissions for the first thirty days?  What are you going to do if that was your Sophie's Choice?
"Mr. Johnson, now that I'm here at Acme I have come to realize that the mutual fund you bought from me when I was at Ajax is not really what you need, so I suggest that you liquidate it and.........."
Sure there is the commission to be earned, and a trip to Bermuda too.  But there are other factors at play that you never see unless you end up at the home office and get a better understanding how the giant jigsaw puzzle is put together.
Could be that the computer system in your office is paid for with soft dollars..........never mind, it can really get involved.

RR352's picture
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I would have to agree.  The door knocking seems more like a right of passage.  I have come across some successful jones IRs and they will admit it.  However I think many of them get some kind of joy from forcing people to do it.
Big Easy,
I have never been told that I should liquidate any accounts that I bring in. I am new so maybe it will come.  I have transfered in most in kind and just check to make sure they are the best fund for the situation for the existing fund family.  If someone has already paid a sales charge I typically try to work with what they have.

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

I quit Jones after about 4 years to go indy.  I guess I'm either a slow learner or just stubborn and don't like to give in. I think the latter  I was a transfer broker and had already been in the business for about 10 years in a bank channel. So, I probably should have known better and done better due diligence.  Either way here is my take on what is wrong and right with Jones.
Door knocking.  I didn't like it much, but didn't hate it either. I never ever used it as anything other than an introduction to me and my new office.  In some ways it was actually fun.  I'm not afraid of dogs, on the contrary animals fall all over me for some reason and their owners really liked that.  You don't continue door knocking (usually) past your first year or even less. You don't ask the people you meet at the door to sign anything.  At first you aren't even licensed so you can't discuss investements, which was fine by me. I didn't intend to do that at the door step. The idea is to get to know people and find out about them on a personal and hopefully financial level.  You want to get their phone number and mailing address to be able to start dripping all over them once you are good to go......or as Jones says "Have your Can Sell Date".
The training of IRs at Jones was/is abysmal and yes they did allow the liquidation of incoming assets, especially mutual funds.  That way we don't have to fill out one of those nasty little "switch letters".  .   So much easier to position cash....doncha know.
IRs who know nothing to begin with about managing money or portfolio construction are basically only taught how to flog a stock or bond or mutual fund.  I was appalled to find out the new IRs, even when the fed rate (and consequentially all rates) was at its lowest point in 50 years, were still being told to offer 30 bonds!!! Nevermind that in a few years the clients will be screaming for the new IR's head....he won't be there anyway and we will have a new round of patsies to take the heat.
What IS good, is that a new IR can get licensed and get a taste of what the business is like. And as long as he keeps his eyes wide open will learn a lot. The new IR needs to take it upon himself to learn, learn, learn the business from other sources than Jones.  Take CFP courses and anything else that will educate you.  Edward Jones is a launching pad for those who want to continue on and a swamp that will suck under the people who can't or don't want to continue. If you treat your clients right and give them good service they will come with you when you move on.
The fact the Jones misrepresents its model as being a single office, self controlled, running your own business yada yada yada is the biggest beef that most ex jonesers have with the company.  It's a BIG FAT LIE.  When you realize how they have bambozzled you, you get mad at them and at yourself for being such a dupe. You are not self employed. They control your business, put you on a quota system (seg 1 seg 2 so on) You pay for your own office expenses, other than rent and salary. So you get all the financial pain of being self employed with none of the real control.  The profit and loss accounting that they use to determine profitability is a joke. I was a commercial loan officer also during the 10 years at the bank and I know what a REAL profit and loss statement looks like. The entire system is a stick and carrot ploy.  No matter how fast you run, you can't get the carrot. 

Big Easy Flood's picture
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IRs who know nothing to begin with about managing money or portfolio construction are basically only taught how to flog a stock or bond or mutual fund.  I was appalled to find out the new IRs, even when the fed rate (and consequentially all rates) was at its lowest point in 50 years, were still being told to offer 30 bonds!!! Nevermind that in a few years the clients will be screaming for the new IR's head....he won't be there anyway and we will have a new round of patsies to take the heat.
There are a couple of things here to be considered.
1.  The sad reality that an awful lot of brokers are just not very bright.  On this forum a few days ago several morons stepped up to the plate and posted percentage gains that simply could not have been accurate if they had even a modest clue to what they were doing.  The world is filled with these idiots who, against all odds, passed their Series 6 or 7 exam and are out the raping and pillaging.  It's a real disgrace, but it's there.
2.  Most of the clients who are being steered by these types are not investing so damn much money that it really matters all that much what happens to them regarding the returns to their portfolio.  $25,000 at 6% is not that much different than $25,000 at 7 or 8 percent.
I understand, and agree with, what you're saying when you comment about pushing long bonds when rates are low.  But when you're Gomer or Goober what difference does it make?  So you drop your $50,000 inheritance in a long bond fund and watch the principal value decline as rates rise.  As we all know, or should know, long bonds eventually mature and if Goober is happy with the annual income who are we to tell him he shouldn't be.
Put yourself in the mind of Goober.  He's got $50,000 and somebody is telling him that he can get 6% interest on a thirty year bond.  That he will get a check for about $250 per month for the rest of his life.
Then you show up and try to talk him out of that decision.  You, correctly, explain that if he will settle for $150 per month for awhile you're pretty sure he can move his money into long bonds later and get a lot more than $250 per month.
Now remmber, he's Goober from Mayberry.  He's going to think of you as some sort of double talking shyster, after all he knows he can get 6% and now you're saying he should accept 3% hoping to get 8 or 9 percent in a year or two.  Sounds just like gambling, and gambling is the devil come to earth.
First and foremost is to get the sale.  As cold as that is, it's the way it is and has to be.  None of us can stay in business by leaving client assets in money market funds waiting for interest rates to peak.
As old timers will tell you, in the late 1970s sophisticated investors were turning down 19% corporates because they were convinced that rates were going to hit 25%.
If it were easy everybody would be rich and when you've got a client sitting there with their checkbook in hand it's best to put them in the best thing for them at the time.
Yes their principal will erode if rates rise, and yes that's a shame.  But you know what?  If they don't sell the bonds their principal will come back and in the mean time they're getting those checks that they wanted back when they bought the bonds.
Most of them will understand that they bought when rates were "X" and that now that they're ">X" that's just the risk they took.  Unless rates are at zero there is always a chance that you'll miss the market by waiting.  It is only with hindsight that we can see where we went wrong.
A client is far more forgiving of having you recommend that they buy bonds too soon than too late.

exdrone's picture
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Hmmm,
Lets justify sell our clients inapropriate investments by calling them stupid.  Good job BEF.  

Big Easy Flood's picture
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exdrone wrote:
Hmmm,
Lets justify sell our clients inapropriate investments by calling them stupid.  Good job BEF.  

A primary concern from the NASD and SEC's point of view is that an investement's suitability is dependent on the client's ability to understand what is being done with THEIR money.
The landscape is littered with former brokers who were tossed out of the business because the actually believed the client who told them, "Whatever you think, you're the professional."
If your cient cannot explain the investment to his wife he does not belong in it.

babbling looney's picture
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My point is that the new Jones brokers didn't understand the inverse relationship between bonds and rising interest rates.  When I explained it to a few of them it was a surprise to them.  Whether or not the client will be satisfied with  declining bond market value in a long term investment in exchange for a steady income stream is moot. 
The issue is that the advisor is supposed to know how these things work and explain it to the client so they understand and can make a fully informed decision.  Jones doesn't educate the new IR who usually had no previous experience in this field.  They just send out loose cannons. The brokers may mean well, but they are basically clueless for at least the first 2 years.  I have seen Jones guys who are big time "Vets" who still couldn't buy a clue.

Big Easy Flood's picture
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babbling looney wrote:
I have seen Jones guys who are big time "Vets" who still couldn't buy a clue.

That's not just Jones, it's true across the business.  Especially where the hiring qualifications are relaxed.
It is one of the things that argues for a minimum education requirement for the industry.
It is ridiculous that somebody without any formal education, much less a degree, can be authorized to handle another's money.
If Wall Street were to ever clean up their act among the first things that should be done is to require an MBA to become registered unless your duties are strictly clerical such as a registed sales assistant.
Can you imagine a lawyer who did not have a law degree or a doctor who didn't have an MD?  Why should financial types not be similar?

troll's picture
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Big Easy Flood wrote:
If Wall Street were to ever clean up their act among the first things that should be done is to require an MBA to become registered unless your duties are strictly clerical such as a registed sales assistant.

I agree with you that it's a travesty that we don't have better education standards, but I don't believe that an MBA is the appropriate degree. I’ve yet to see a demonstrated connection between having an MBA and being a skilled investment advisor/planner.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Big Easy Flood's picture
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mikebutler222 wrote:Big Easy Flood wrote:
If Wall Street were to ever clean up their act among the first things that should be done is to require an MBA to become registered unless your duties are strictly clerical such as a registed sales assistant.

I agree with you that it's a travesty that we don't have better education standards, but I don't believe that an MBA is the appropriate degree. I’ve yet to see a demonstrated connection between having an MBA and being a skilled investment advisor/planner.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

OK, make it an MBA in Financial Planning.
My point is that it's wrong that some bozo who dropped out of his freshman year at the junior college can be hired by an employer that handles people's money.
The Series 7 exam should be significantly more difficult and the passing score should be 85 instead of 70.
There's lots of things that should be done.  But they won't be so there's no reason to beat our keyboards about it.

babbling looney's picture
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There should also be ongoing and meaningful continuing education requirements for brokers and financial advisors.  By meaningful, not taking an online course and answering the questions from the book.  
Just learning enough to pass the test isn't sufficient.  Most of us will admit that we have forgotten much of the series 7 material, especially the options information.   Unless you use it or keep refreshing it you lose it.   In addition the industry keeps changing and new investment products are introduced that didn't exist when some of us took the exams.

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-31

Put Trader is in the house!!!

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-31

Put, I'm all for more education and higher standards, but come on...can't you qualify me with my CFP?!!   I don't want to go back for more eductaion that I MAY use 5% of in my daily duties!!!

Indyone's picture
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BTW, don't do any of that stuff that got you banned last time, OK?!! 

Big Easy Flood's picture
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Indyone wrote:Put Trader is in the house!!!
Who is Put Trader and why does he or she rate three exclamation points?

troll's picture
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Indyone wrote:Put Trader is in the house!!!Similar thoughts have passed through my mind......

Indyone's picture
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Big Easy Flood wrote:
Indyone wrote:Put Trader is in the house!!!
Who is Put Trader and why does he or she rate three exclamation points?
I'm just excited to have Put back on the board.  Put kept things interesting even if you didn't always agree with him.
You don' have to 'fess up, just don't do anything to get yourself banned this time, OK?!!

Big Easy Flood's picture
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joedabrkr wrote: Indyone wrote:Put Trader is in the house!!!Similar thoughts have passed through my mind......
With the exclamation points?

Indyone's picture
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Big Easy Flood wrote:
joedabrkr wrote: Indyone wrote:Put Trader is in the house!!!Similar thoughts have passed through my mind......
With the exclamation points?
Au contraire...I think he's pegged you too...

BigLew's picture
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Joined: 2005-12-20

Who was/is this put trader and why was he banned from the messge boards?

Cowboy93's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-10

He was w/Jones and their people are not allowed to mess w/complicated concepts like Puts, or Trading them.
Actually, he just said everyone young or inexperienced was an idiot and the USA is going to h*ll because he walked to school in a foot of snow uphill both ways, while trying to build a book at the same time, not to mention working 3 odd jobs on the side and raising his 16 brothers and sisters...and volunteering at the shelter and getting a 1600 on his SAT...and if the current generation can't keep up with his precedent, they aren't worth a nickel.
I'm paraphrasing, of course.

troll's picture
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Cowboy93 wrote:He was w/Jones and their people are not allowed to mess w/complicated concepts like Puts, or Trading them.
Actually, he just said everyone young or inexperienced was an idiot and the USA is going to h*ll because he walked to school in a foot of snow uphill both ways, while trying to build a book at the same time, not to mention working 3 odd jobs on the side and raising his 16 brothers and sisters...and volunteering at the shelter and getting a 1600 on his SAT...and if the current generation can't keep up with his precedent, they aren't worth a nickel.
I'm paraphrasing, of course.Actually, to the extent he was to be believed, he was NOT with jones but actually in management and living somewhere in Manhattan.  I think he was a mid-level leech at one of the large firms....say like Vice President of Paper Clip Supply or something like that.  Used to wax and wane on and on about his participation in NASD policymaking forums, as if that is something that would impress us....He was sort of a sad tragic character really.  I could tell he was in fact somewhat intelligent, but was so busy trying to prove his importance to the rest of us that he came across in the end as just plain arrogant.....

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

I think he was/is bored with his job and nearing retirement and thought it would be fun (and it is!) to poke a stick into the snake pit and see what reactions he could get.  
Come on now, admit it you guys.......don't you take an exaggerated position sometimes on an internet forum just to get a reaction?
As to the age vs young punks attitude, I must say I agree in some respects.  Kids these days.....wadda gonna do
 

blarmston's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-26

JoeDaMan and Babbling,
Definately agree with your assessments of old man Put. I used to love battling with that guy.

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