Raymond James?'s

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gametime's picture
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I'm 30 months in with Jones and 4mil book. Nothing exciting but I'm proud of it as I had no sales experience, knew nothing about the industry, and was NOT one of the 7 people in my area over the last 2.5 years that walked into 10+mil book. The most recent one may have been the nail in the coffin for me and got me searching. It just doesn't sit right with me that some noob can walk into a decent size book and expect to keep it or do what's right for the client better than an experienced FA ie me :). Needless to say that was the catalyst and how I ran into this forum. Awesome resource! Thanks to all that contribute to it and kinda wish I knew about it a long time ago too. I feel as though my eyes have been openned lol. There could possibly be life after Jones. I'm in Canada so it may be a bit different than the US. Seems though that there are a fair amount of Canucks on the board from some of the comments I have read.At RJ will they let you work another job? In an ideal world I'd love to bang out calls 3 days a week (which I know I'd be more efficient at than doing all week) and build a fee based business? To suppliment the lack of $$$ in the front end of doing that I'd need 2-3 days to work another job (not industry related) to give me a base and keep me sain. Provided I had a branch manager that would pay me more than my cut at Jones and allowed me to do this, is it possible? I guess the real question is, is it Jones' rules that I can't have a second job or industry rules? I'm so indoctrinated that I don't know what is industry related or Jones related :) No answers on Joneslink I tried :p Thanks, and bring on the hate if you feel inclined.

I am legend's picture
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Most firms want your full time and attention.

Greenbacks2's picture
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I am sorry to tell you but 30 months experience, you are still a rookie. And I am legend is right they want it all or nothing. Good Luck   

Mr.Blonde's picture
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gametime wrote:I'm 30 months in with Jones and 4mil book. Nothing exciting but I'm proud of it as I had no sales experience, knew nothing about the industry, and was NOT one of the 7 people in my area over the last 2.5 years that walked into 10+mil book. The most recent one may have been the nail in the coffin for me and got me searching. It just doesn't sit right with me that some noob can walk into a decent size book and expect to keep it or do what's right for the client better than an experienced FA ie me :). Needless to say that was the catalyst and how I ran into this forum. Awesome resource! Thanks to all that contribute to it and kinda wish I knew about it a long time ago too. I feel as though my eyes have been openned lol. There could possibly be life after Jones. I'm in Canada so it may be a bit different than the US. Seems though that there are a fair amount of Canucks on the board from some of the comments I have read.At RJ will they let you work another job? In an ideal world I'd love to bang out calls 3 days a week (which I know I'd be more efficient at than doing all week) and build a fee based business? To suppliment the lack of $$$ in the front end of doing that I'd need 2-3 days to work another job (not industry related) to give me a base and keep me sain. Provided I had a branch manager that would pay me more than my cut at Jones and allowed me to do this, is it possible? I guess the real question is, is it Jones' rules that I can't have a second job or industry rules? I'm so indoctrinated that I don't know what is industry related or Jones related :) No answers on Joneslink I tried :p Thanks, and bring on the hate if you feel inclined. Fellow canuck here. 30 months and 4 mill, how did you keep the dot above the line? Anyways, which avenue of RJ are you considering? Teaming with a senior independent or going through the branch network with 20 other brokers in the office? Not sure about the part time gig though and 3 calls per week is extremely unrealistic even for 20 year vets. At Jones, who would you call to roll over 30 year, BBB, 4.2%, paying 3 points! The nepotism at Jones has been discussed at nauseum and though some big changes have taken place over the years, this is one issue that never seems to be adressed.I think you should evaluate if you're serious and if you really want to excel in this business. If so, there are plenty of opportunities out there through a bank channel or Credit Union. I'm at a CU, referrals coming all day and if you implement one half of what Jones teaches, you'll be a superstar. 40% payout and no expenses except ticket charges, do you know the toilet paper is free? I know of some who have left and taken a chunk of the clients to go Indy if that is more your thing.If you can tell from my tone, there is a life outside Jones and they'll probably end up selling Canada anyways. Pm me if you want to talk further. You can have a succesful career in this industry but you will have to make more than 3 calls per week, I guarantee that.

gametime's picture
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Joined: 2010-04-21

I don't think I ever claimed to be an expert and as far as I'm concerned there are a lot of ten year vets that are rookies too just by choosing to keep their eyes closed....or by getting cocky with their stock picks in good times. I've seen plenty of statements on my desk to know. I do know that I have far more training that a lot of other brokers out there. Jones has been excellent in that regard and why this isn't a thread about how to get out of training costs. I'm fully willing to pay my dues for 36 months.I also didn't say 3 calls/week. And if "banging out callls" means 3 calls a day that is pretty funny. I meant pushing out three days working with focussed calling. And I do a decent amount of life insurance to stay meeting expectations something I plan on continuing to do. So I think a bank or CU is out of question? I don't know. I think the bank or CU is my backup.The avenue that I was wondering about was going with someone that's gone "indy" (new word for me lol).  Maybe I net 60% indy broker takes 20. If you bring in assets its all gravy for that advisor. If you don't, you really aren't much extra cost to that advisor. Trails alone would be something they didn't have even if they are small. Work from home, appointments at clients homes. Maybe have a small office with the advisor or use of the boardroom for appts. It would put me in a true position to do what's best fee-wise for clients.I give up 60% of my income for an office I'm never in because I like calling from home or anywhere but in an office. Have a BOA that sits around doing nothing for most of the day. And still have to pay for all my own marketing. And analysts that IMO...well I'm no analysts but do know I have a few clients with RJ and their picks/research seems to be a cut above Jones.I'm very aware of what it takes to succeed in this industry and it's a lot of hard work. So being a "rookie" I would much rather be working my ass off in an environment that fits me. I'd rather get it right the first time because I'm only going to have enough energy to do this once. I do know that I'm about at my wits end where I am but love love love what I do.I really like the idea of clients coming into an office where there is more than two people. I have lost a couple big accounts because there was no "team" in the office. There is something comforting about other human beings visually around you when you're bringing in your life savings. I always ask those that choose not to do business with me why they chose someone else and who. What I find is that Jones thrives in small communities/towns, but when you get to a place with high net worth people Jones is the "Country Bumpkin" of the bunch and is really known for turnover and high cost....cause we're all trying to stay above that line lol. And my last comment is that we don't have annualized returns which drives me nuts. When a client asks how much they have made/lost with the money they have invested and you have no report saying so.....balls. I really like retirement planning and the process we have. But when you cannot tell a client what their last year annual return was it's pretty....insert any word. Sorry for the essays but maybe the reason a lot of Jones complaints are on here is because it's someone to actually vent on. Sure as hell am not going to call anyone in Jones to vent on this stuff cause it just counts as ticks against you. Great company, great training for a simple don't think too hard about it advisor. Maybe I'll find something new out here and realize I do have it pretty good. Take my comments with a grain of salt please :)

I am legend's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-04

Wow, Jones doesn't have a system to tell clients their return?  You have to pull statements and figure it out yourself?  What a joke!  The indie route is the only one that is a possibility for what you are talking about.  find someone in your area who is looking to bring on another advisor to their indie practice.

gametime's picture
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Joined: 2010-04-21

So it is probably possible provided I find an indy broker willing to work with me? Meaning it's not an industry rule to not have a second job, just a firm thing (understandably)?

B24's picture
B24
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I am legend wrote:Wow, Jones doesn't have a system to tell clients their return?  You have to pull statements and figure it out yourself?  What a joke!  The indie route is the only one that is a possibility for what you are talking about.  find someone in your area who is looking to bring on another advisor to their indie practice.Yes, they do.  There's two different reports:  One shows dollar flows: assets started with, assets added, assets withdrawn, income received, and growth (+/-) of portfolio.The other is a return report - asset flows and returns, by individual security and portfolio.  However, this report has only been in place for about a year. 

gametime's picture
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Correct two reports. The new one was the attempt to show a number that makes sense. How much in, how much withdrawn vs current value. Then you can put your chicken sratches down showing what their return is when you calculate it on your own. Very professional. It should be a quick fix but one of those things I can't beleive isn't figured out yet. My BOA didn't believe me either so I made her get on the phone with me and I asked all the questions to finally get it out that there is nothing that prints out that shows clients their return. They say there is and will beat around the bush until you say...my client wants to know the return based on how much they have given me and the current market value. You get answers like yah, you can see the return of your individual investments. Or, yes you can see the return including amounts invested. Or about five other variations or till you get someone on the phone that has a clue and says "I hate to be the bearer of bad news but no, we dont' have anything like that. They are working on it in the US and it's one of the number one complaints from advisors." That is what I was told. If I am wrong, I will be very very happy.I found this out after being in the feild for over 24 months. I was looking at the numbers thinking I KNOW we've done better than that, these number don't add up. And had a client accross the table saying it didn't add up either. There was no amount of backpeddling that could have saved that one. My first transfer out. You look at an account that is 100% bonds all bought below par with coupons all above 4%. The values are all above par now so you've sold some at great gains and you've reinvested the interest. Performance shows 3%.....um no.And I fully support the comments in other posts about believing in where you are at especially in Jones. I wasn't looking for problems at all. And even the ones that came accross my path I feel like I was pretty good at nutting up and overlooking. I can say work has been challenging to bring in assets and stay motivated when you just don't believe it anymore. I love what I do I just don't believe I can do what's best for my clients where I am. Ignorance is bliss :)If I could find a RJ indy that is down to have a noob come in under his/her wing partime to contribute to his bottom line then that's a dream job for me. Even if I had the same cut going fee based with the opportunity to pay the bills with a part-time job and build my book over time it would be amazing.

I am legend's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-04

On another note:  30 months and 4 MM in assets?  How are you still in the business.  I had 25 MM in 30 months and I didn't inherit anything.  My opinion is that you have to give yourself completely to this business or you won't make it.  Your idea of working somewhere else 2 days a week won't work.  What will happen when you clients call and you are never there on Tu/Th or whatever days you are working your other job.  If you have to work another job, do it on the weekends.

gametime's picture
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Lots of life insurance, and starting in great markets. That combined with people saying Edward Jones....that's a clothing company right? I know that I am still here with all three of us from a 16 person eval grad class. I'm one of the survivors in my area. I think I've seen 10-15 new guys in my area come and go just in the last year. I stopped keeping track because it was depressing. All the ones that are still around walked into books. I'm also watching a lot of vets take off too to other firms. So at some point it makes you wonder.What is making it in this industry?If you are contributing to another advisor's bottom line and using very little of his resources it's a good position for both of you. I know I would do it if I was established. Have a new guy work under me with his book. I'm collecting another 20% from anything he brings in on his own. If he does become a burden he gets the boot. If you have a book full of mutual funds bonds and insurance any advisor that's honest with himself knows how little management it takes even to do a good job. You're outsourcing the management. How else are all the big dogs out golfing all the time? Your second job gives you a base. "Making it" in this business is meeting your employers commission standards and creating a base that you can survive on while doing what's best for the client. Unfortunately it's a little on its head. In the beginning you really have to do what's best for you until you can afford to do what's best for the client. Or go crazy and burn out and eat lots of kd. If anything above 0 benefits the person above you, and you can focus on selling investments that fit your clients instead of your lifestyle, then that's making it from day one IMO. At least that's the only way I've come up with so far that makes sense. When your book grows to a point where you are needed full time you'll be making enough money to have a good base to ditch your supplimenting job. And you're covering enough of the advisors bottom line above you that maybe they bump you up to 65-70%. And who knows then you buy their book or take it over for a fee.I'm trying to see where I am totally out to lunch on this. For you established folk, why wouldn't you do this?

Mr.Blonde's picture
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gametime wrote:Lots of life insurance, and starting in great markets. That combined with people saying Edward Jones....that's a clothing company right? I know that I am still here with all three of us from a 16 person eval grad class. I'm one of the survivors in my area. I think I've seen 10-15 new guys in my area come and go just in the last year. I stopped keeping track because it was depressing. All the ones that are still around walked into books. I'm also watching a lot of vets take off too to other firms. So at some point it makes you wonder.What is making it in this industry?If you are contributing to another advisor's bottom line and using very little of his resources it's a good position for both of you. I know I would do it if I was established. Have a new guy work under me with his book. I'm collecting another 20% from anything he brings in on his own. If he does become a burden he gets the boot. If you have a book full of mutual funds bonds and insurance any advisor that's honest with himself knows how little management it takes even to do a good job. You're outsourcing the management. How else are all the big dogs out golfing all the time? Your second job gives you a base. "Making it" in this business is meeting your employers commission standards and creating a base that you can survive on while doing what's best for the client. Unfortunately it's a little on its head. In the beginning you really have to do what's best for you until you can afford to do what's best for the client. Or go crazy and burn out and eat lots of kd.If anything above 0 benefits the person above you, and you can focus on selling investments that fit your clients instead of your lifestyle, then that's making it from day one IMO. At least that's the only way I've come up with so far that makes sense. When your book grows to a point where you are needed full time you'll be making enough money to have a good base to ditch your supplimenting job. And you're covering enough of the advisors bottom line above you that maybe they bump you up to 65-70%. And who knows then you buy their book or take it over for a fee.I'm trying to see where I am totally out to lunch on this. For you established folk, why wouldn't you do this? I really don't think this is for you. 30 months and 4 million is pathetic, minimum bogey in Canada should be at least $12,000/ month, approaching $15,000 by 36 months. 4 million might equate to 40,000/year; You're fighting and clawing your way to 9,000/month in insurance 30 months out? I call BS. If you're that good, you should definitelylook at going pure insurance with a senior producer. Sorry dude, fellow Canadian and all, but you keep coming back to needing to get a part time job. Doesn't inspire a lot of trust in clients when their advisor is serving drinks at their favourite watering hole. Notice how I spell favoUrite with a "U"?  Get real, expect to work a full week and don't buy into that bullshit dvd they sent you when you first got hired. "Work like no one else for 2 years and you will live like no one else for the rest of your life". There is major overahul in our industry and the idea that you have to go to a stockbroker to buy a stock is long gone. You will work, put up with a ton of shit  and attract more than 4 million dollars in assets. No independent would hire you with those numbers, or even a bank or CU, unless you are opening checking accounts part time.

gametime's picture
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Joined: 2010-04-21

You are definitely right, it's not for me. Selling something you don't believe in is next to impossible for anyone in any business. I'm not worried about getting a job at the bank or a CU. I've seen how quick "failed" Jones advisors are picked up. They are a steal compared to what's out there. The machine must be training half the industry. I have four bank cards in my desk with "Call us if anything changes" notes. Those are the last resorts.I fully agree that this industry is going through an overhaul. With that, there needs to be smarter and more efficient ways of doing business. I would still like to hear why it's a bad idea. Put yourself in those shoes. You bring in someone that has a measily 2 mill book with trails and take 20%. You are not hiring this person, they are paying you. That is your worst case scenario to a point (yes you could make up some weird scenario). Maybe you show him the ropes a little, maybe you let him fend for him/herself. Every dollar they bring in you're collecting on. It's in your best interest to help out if you feel like it. Maybe you bring in two? You become the machine. 

I am legend's picture
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If most of your success so far is from insurance why don't you go to an insurance firm that also will let you do securities and you can probably get a higher salary than you had at Jones when you started.  I would check with MetLife.  That way you solve 2 problems at once.  Your cashflow problem and you possible get somewhere where you can perform well.  Or you could find and indie guy who doesn't like to do insurance biz and be his insurance specialist.

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gametime wrote:Correct two reports. The new one was the attempt to show a number that makes sense. How much in, how much withdrawn vs current value. Then you can put your chicken sratches down showing what their return is when you calculate it on your own. Very professional. It should be a quick fix but one of those things I can't beleive isn't figured out yet. My BOA didn't believe me either so I made her get on the phone with me and I asked all the questions to finally get it out that there is nothing that prints out that shows clients their return. They say there is and will beat around the bush until you say...my client wants to know the return based on how much they have given me and the current market value. You get answers like yah, you can see the return of your individual investments. Or, yes you can see the return including amounts invested. Or about five other variations or till you get someone on the phone that has a clue and says "I hate to be the bearer of bad news but no, we dont' have anything like that. They are working on it in the US and it's one of the number one complaints from advisors." That is what I was told. If I am wrong, I will be very very happy.I found this out after being in the feild for over 24 months. I was looking at the numbers thinking I KNOW we've done better than that, these number don't add up. And had a client accross the table saying it didn't add up either. There was no amount of backpeddling that could have saved that one. My first transfer out. You look at an account that is 100% bonds all bought below par with coupons all above 4%. The values are all above par now so you've sold some at great gains and you've reinvested the interest. Performance shows 3%.....um no.And I fully support the comments in other posts about believing in where you are at especially in Jones. I wasn't looking for problems at all. And even the ones that came accross my path I feel like I was pretty good at nutting up and overlooking. I can say work has been challenging to bring in assets and stay motivated when you just don't believe it anymore. I love what I do I just don't believe I can do what's best for my clients where I am. Ignorance is bliss :)If I could find a RJ indy that is down to have a noob come in under his/her wing partime to contribute to his bottom line then that's a dream job for me. Even if I had the same cut going fee based with the opportunity to pay the bills with a part-time job and build my book over time it would be amazing.Again, wrong.  We have two reports; the first one is what you are referring to - cash in, cash out, income, change in value, ending value (Value History Report).  The second report started about a year ago; Beginning Value, Cash Flows In/Out, Total Return, Ending Value, Total Return (%) (By individual investment and total portfolio), Annualized Return, Personal Rate of Return by Year (Performance Detail Report).  This gives you everything you need to see, including returns for assets you no longer own.  There is one other report that has existed all along which I never use (Performance Analysis), but it's sort of antiquated, and includes only EXISTING assets in the portfolio, and a life-to-date return.  I never use that.I'm not trying to defend Jones, I am simply telling you that the report that everyone has been waiting 20 years for exists.  I agree, they should have had it years ago.  In addition, it was suppose to be rolled out at the end of 2008 (they were supposedly accumulating data beginning 01/2008), but then for some "strange" reason, the report did not materialize until the beginning of 2010 (with all of 2009 numbers).  It's obvious why they stalled the rollout, and honestly, if I was the MP of Jones, I would have done the same damn thing.  I'd rather start my life-to-date returns with 2009 instead of 2008. 

B24's picture
B24
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gametime wrote:You are definitely right, it's not for me. Selling something you don't believe in is next to impossible for anyone in any business. I'm not worried about getting a job at the bank or a CU. I've seen how quick "failed" Jones advisors are picked up. They are a steal compared to what's out there. The machine must be training half the industry. I have four bank cards in my desk with "Call us if anything changes" notes. Those are the last resorts.I fully agree that this industry is going through an overhaul. With that, there needs to be smarter and more efficient ways of doing business. I would still like to hear why it's a bad idea. Put yourself in those shoes. You bring in someone that has a measily 2 mill book with trails and take 20%. You are not hiring this person, they are paying you. That is your worst case scenario to a point (yes you could make up some weird scenario). Maybe you show him the ropes a little, maybe you let him fend for him/herself. Every dollar they bring in you're collecting on. It's in your best interest to help out if you feel like it. Maybe you bring in two? You become the machine.Cuz the potential compliance liabilities aren't worth $500 a year in added revenue to your business.  Unless the person serves a purpose (i.e. doing all the insurance biz, servicing all your B clients, etc.) I wouldn't have a guy on my watch that can't produce.  Guys that can't produce can start doing things that aren't good for clients in order to make a buck (so can guys that CAN produce, but I would want to get paid for the added compliance oversight).

gametime's picture
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B24 wrote:I'm not trying to defend Jones, I am simply telling you that the report that everyone has been waiting 20 years for exists.  I agree, they should have had it years ago.  In addition, it was suppose to be rolled out at the end of 2008 (they were supposedly accumulating data beginning 01/2008), but then for some "strange" reason, the report did not materialize until the beginning of 2010 (with all of 2009 numbers).  It's obvious why they stalled the rollout, and honestly, if I was the MP of Jones, I would have done the same damn thing.  I'd rather start my life-to-date returns with 2009 instead of 2008.  Are you in Canada?

gametime's picture
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B24 wrote:Cuz the potential compliance liabilities aren't worth $500 a year in added revenue to your business.  Unless the person serves a purpose (i.e. doing all the insurance biz, servicing all your B clients, etc.) I wouldn't have a guy on my watch that can't produce.  Guys that can't produce can start doing things that aren't good for clients in order to make a buck (so can guys that CAN produce, but I would want to get paid for the added compliance oversight).That is a legit concern. If they don't produce they get the boot. I have no worries about producing. Thanks for the info folks. It's been nice to at least have some exposure to the other side to see both perspectives. Jones had been good to me too and I do have an obligation to them and my clients now so this has all just been testing the waters. I have options locally so it's now about what I feel is best for me and my clients and clients to come.

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