Non Compete

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ToughBiz's picture
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I am with EJ and am currently in my first year.  Ofcourse, I think they are misleading about their statistics.  I am a new new.  Anyway.  I am not making what I thought I would first year and I have no more savings.  I am above standard and still behind on bills.  There is a bank who wants to pay me $50k to come over.  That would pay our mortgage and bills. 
 
I want to move but the hiring company may not hire me because they are afraid EJ will come after me and them.  I manage less than 1 million.  Is there any helpful advice you all can give?

ytrewq's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-02

Gonna go out on a limb here.  "Ofcourse, I think they are misleading about their statistics."  "That would pay our mortgage..."  My advice is please take the $50,000 and go away.  As a matter of fact, default on your mortgage and claim the lender was "misleading about their statistics."  too.  The rest of us taxpayers will not come after you with a nonpayment (as opposed to noncompete).  Pretty lame that you start explaining your own poor financial planning with some excuse about "misleading statistics".  Disgusting broken record.  My advice?  Try a tiny bit of personal responsibility.  Go away.

Squash's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-08

I don't agree with him that they are misleading, but on the other hand they do float a giant "if" balloon.. Some of those account bonuses they include are just stupid when I was there we had 6 people qualify for at least one( OUT OF MY WHOLE PDP CLASS)..

Why don't you drop your production for a month and make them fire you.. that is how a couple of guys in my training class got out of the contract

Anonymous's picture
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1 year out and < $1MM AUM is "above standard?"

troll's picture
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iceco1d wrote:1 year out and < $1MM AUM is "above standard?"
 
They don't care what the AUM is, $1mm into annuities paying 6%= $60m production which is above standard for EDJ.  The bank wants him because he is already doing the type of business they love.

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

ytrewq, that is a horrible post.  The person needs to take care of their family and obligations. That was a very rude post.  I will have to agree that Jones is a little misleading about its first year income possibilities.  Success really depends on if your handed a gift in a existing office with good assets. That is about what it takes to make it here. There will always be that miracle New New success story.  I wouldnt buy a damn thing from some Joker operating out of the trunk of his car or in the supply closet of some FA's office.  Let me tell you I was one of those jokers. My desk at my "Legacy Branch" faced the wall. 
To be handed a decent size book  where some goon who doesnt know how to make money for clients or at least protect money in a bear market could be your best bet. I would say there will be some of those who cant take the heat.  I was handed a gift in a decent size office. Other than that I wouldnt have wanted to put in the effort required as a new new. Not worth losing your family and ruining your credit. I wouldnt work 70 hours a week for any  company for any amount of money. No one on their death bed ever said they wished they worked more.  My friend three years in you will realize Jones is simply just a weigh station for bigger and better things if you want it. 

ytrewq's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-02

covered calls,Your post is the one that is horrible.  In fact, his post is rude, and yours is rude.  If you take a moment and think.1:  It does not take a handout to succeed.  I am sure almost everyone here, myself included, was handed absolutely nothing.  It takes personal responsibility.2:  My post was about "family obligations".  I have a large sum of capital invested in EJ.  "Posting" for ways to screw me, EJ, and my family out of my very hard earned money p!sses me off.  There are many people on this site that have lost huge sums money invested in their firms for no fault of their own.  I would bet none of them appreciate people like you looking for ways to screw them just a little bit more.3:  I have spent literally thousands of hours helping new FA's get a start.  Thousands of hours that could have been spent with my own family.You say yourself you were handed an office and yet you still try to act like you know what it is to build your own.  I am not your friend and I passed "3 years in" 16 years ago.  How in the hell are you going to move on to bigger and better things when you admit yourself you could not have done it if not for someone else' hard work and generousity.   You wouldn't want to "put in the effort" or "work 70 hours a week"?  You do not deserve to call yourself an Financial Advisor.  Move on to better things now.

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I'm with YTREWQ on this one all the way. 

rankstocks's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-10

This thread has to be a joke.  No institution, including a bank, is going to pay a broker with less than a million in assets 50k to move over....I don't care if their balls are dipped in gold, it's not going to happen.  Second, to think any firm pays you squat your first year or two, you must be an idiot.  Third, you should be bringing in more assets than a million in your first year, which tells me toughbiz doesn't have much of a work ethic, considering the million is probably family.  I am so tired of these types of threads where "everything is someone else's fault", and "I shouldn't take any blame even though I am a lazy dumbass".  ToughBiz, just quit and save yourself from your own misery.

buyandhold's picture
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Joined: 2008-09-23

troll.

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

Unfortunately, it's tough to screen out the new hires based on "attitude" and "heart".  No matter how good or bad a firm is at hiring, there will still be many that are just not cut out to be FA's.  Whether it's here or Merrill or Morgan or indy, it's still essentially your own business to make or break.  Whether you get a W2, a 1099, or a K1, it's 100% up to you.  The only knock I would have against Jones (and other BD's), is that they probably don't adequately prepare potential new hires for the rigors and expense of the business.  Although Jones does put it out there, a lot of people that get hired are under the false assumption that this is an "occupation" that will give you a paycheck.  They should make it much more clear what the downside is, really just to weed out those that are not cut out for it, and save us the time, money, and effort of training them.  It's been 3+ years since I went through the research process for this career, so I don't remember exactly how Jones communicated it, but I will say I did all my own research and knew going in that you could make $0 or $1mm, and it was entirely up to you. 
B&H, I agree, I think this guy's a troll.  It's BSpears.  Maybe Borker Boy.  They're the two biggest anti-Jones whiners on this board.

Coolaid's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-31

I’ve just been hired at EDJ and there is no way that anyone walking into the position would have an over inflated idea on what makes a successful EDJ FA, what the initial earning potential would be or how much work is required.  They are pretty thorough in the hiring process before you even get your foot through the door of your final face-to-face interview.  <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 
If the poster is real ... go visit an FA in your area, buy them a coffee and ask what you are doing wrong.   It's your prospecting or your closing skills holding you back.   Also, if you are discouraged, is that coming across in your day to day consultations?  Clients smell fear and desperation.
 
Why leave as a failure?  Get out there and turn it around.

MISS JONES's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-28

ToughBiz wrote: I am with EJ and am currently in my first year.  Ofcourse, I think they are misleading about their statistics.  I am a new new.  Anyway.  I am not making what I thought I would first year and I have no more savings.  I am above standard and still behind on bills.  There is a bank who wants to pay me $50k to come over.  That would pay our mortgage and bills. 
 
I want to move but the hiring company may not hire me because they are afraid EJ will come after me and them.  I manage less than 1 million.  Is there any helpful advice you all can give?

The reason you aren't paying your bills is easy.. You manage 1,000,000 after one year! What the fuck have you been doing with the other 10 months in the year? I hear that same story on this website about how Jones lied about the stats for meeting the requirements and making money. You must have forgotten that you must sell to make money! Seems most people overlook that part of the job.
BTW- the reason that bank doesn't want you are shall we say 'they have doubts' is simple you CANNOT do the job. (i.e. 1 million after year 1) I suggest you look into a 1-800 customer service line. Go to Fidelity.. There you don't actually sell anything. You should wait until Jones fires you then you can keep the license and they won't come after you.

Best of luck!

Miss J

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

ytrewq,
I wasnt calling you my friend.  Even though I dont see how you could say that I am not. If I saw you or your family in need of help I would lend it.  I also wasnt speaking of you when I mention three years in .  I am sorry to have offended you.    My opinion is that I dont think I would have spent thousands of hours training new FA's at the expense of my family.  I also dont think I would invest my money in the firm I work for unless I owned it outright. Those are strictly my opinions.  They are right or wrong depending on the individual. I do not need anyone to agree nor do I care.  I did not say that I wasnt willing to put in the effort. I said I would not be willing to put in the effort required to make it as a new new, especially without a salary after the first year.  It is difficult and takes extreme dedication. A price that I would not pay. I give the utmost respect to those who were given no handouts and made it even it was before there were 30 Jones offices within a 5 mile radius .  I would gladly give tough biz my office if he lived in my town if Jones would let me out of my contract.  I  can tell you I am not a troll.  I  admit I do hate the way this company operates and my opinion is  bias.
I also admit I am dumb for signing the employment contract and working for a brokerage firm that doesnt offer options trading. The barrier of entry was low and I fell for it. Hey Tough Biz, I will give you a tip. When you knock on doors and run into people who say they are  already with Jones. Say oh let me guess you like the American Funds. No doubt your advisor has been kind enough to show you how you can get into the  A share funds at up to half the upfront expense.  Really he hasnt. Wow I would love to tell you more about how it works.  I could come by another time or you would be welcome to come to
 my office. Works like a charm. 

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Hey Tough Biz, I will give you a tip. When you knock on doors and run into people who say they are  already with Jones. Say oh let me guess you like the American Funds. No doubt your advisor has been kind enough to show you how you can get into the  A share funds at up to half the upfront expense.  Really he hasnt. Wow I would love to tell you more about how it works.  I could come by another time or you would be welcome to come to
 my office. Works like a charm. 
 
 
You poach from others in your own firm?  Anyone else have a huge problem with this?

ytrewq's picture
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covered calls is not a troll he is a retard.  I apologize if I offended any retards by that comparison.  "dont think I would invest my money in the firm I work for unless I owned it outright"  What's an ESOP dork?  Pretty much eliminates you working/investing in any publicly traded company in America.  Read you own posts again.  Contradicted yourself many times.

covered calls's picture
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Ytrewq. do you know that you really are sort of an asshole?  What is your arguement. What do you mean when you say "what is an ESOP dork"?. Are you trying to tell me that ESOPs exist and I didnt know it?  I said that I would not invest in the brokerage I work for and that was my opinion.  If the company I work for gave me stock I would sell it at the right opportunity. If the company offered me partnership I had to pay for I probably would turn it down.  I said that was my opinion.    Yes, ytrewq, The word retard is offensive to me.  My daughter has mental retardation.   I dont see contradiction in my posts.  I see that they may be contraversial but not a contradiction.
Primo,  I never made it a point to  poach from others in my own firm.   I simply provide service and pricing that others are not willing to provide.  I run into many who are tired of paying the full 4-5% for managed mutual funds. It is mostly clients choice.  I wasnt this way originally until some  Seg 4 advisors poached my clients. I love  the 20 minute hows it going phone calls from fellow advisors that just before hanging up the phone give you the oh by the way a client of yours would like to switch over to me.  Get to the fucking point instead of wasting my time you greedy bastard.
  Even better  is when you take over a small office and everyone in the region knows your scratching and clawing for everything you've got.  Especially when way more than half the book followed the former advisor who stayed and took another  bigger Jones office. So the clients who stayed are frustrated that they are on their fourth broker in five years ,so some wont return phone calls. In understandable frustration, some show up at other advisors offices to talk about transfering out.  How many advisors do you think refused to bring the account into their branch until the client took the opportunity to meet the advisor of the branch they were in?  I dont know maybe an "oh you haven't met him yet, He is good, Jones is very selective with who they hire". "Make sure you take the opportunity to meet him".  Something like that may have worked. 
 
In their defense maybe they didnt think I was good so they didnt want to lie. Believe me they are thinking Im pretty damn good now and if they dont they soon will.  I make it my point to cold walk the neighborhoods right next to their office for weeks after these little incidents occur. I almost want to stay here because it is so fun.
 
 I  realized what steps would be necessary to make it as a new advisor in my area. I am sure other areas are different.  I hope I will not be in the same firm as these for too much longer anyway. If we all worked in the same office it would be different.  I will see to it that those brokers pay dearly  for their mistake when I change firms.  Until then I love it  when their clients accidentally call my office asking  for them (this happens every day). Where do you think those names and numbers go? They might need someone to not rip them off with 5% mutual funds and 3% bonds one day.   " your advisor told you that it would be prudent after 8 years of holding A shares  to move to a new Advisory account"  "Oh I thought you were kidding"  "Let me show you how that math works out and how your advisor gets paid"     He put you in a VA because he "wanted to guarentee  the income gap in retirement". I dont even need to go on.  

Coolaid's picture
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Covered Calls. do you know that you really are sort of an asshole? 

covered calls's picture
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yes sir

Gaddock's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

ToughBiz,
Strangly enough I was talking about this with a manager from EJ a couple months back. If you are a failing broker they wont come after you and will be glad you are gone. If on the other hand you are kicking arse and go to another firm they will come after you. Most of the time in that situation the firms negotiate and take care of it. THe bank that you may go to will have zero liability so EJ cant go after them for anything.

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B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

"I said I would not be willing to put in the effort required to make it as a new new, especially without a salary after the first year. It is difficult and takes extreme dedication."
I think you've just stated that you are much better suited for a 9-5 salaried (or hourly) desk job. It's OK to admit this. Not everyone is cut out for building a business.

"I also admit I am dumb for signing the employment contract and working for a brokerage firm that doesnt offer options trading."
So you can't make it because you can't trade options? I can't tell you how many times I see advisors fail because they can't trade options....
FYI, don't be deluded into thinking that every Merrill or Indy broker is trading options just because a few people talk about it on this website. There are a lot of good advisors on this site that will agree that they did not need options to become successful (especially in the early years).

"The barrier of entry was low and I fell for it. "
You're certainly right there.

"They might need someone to not rip them off with 5% mutual funds and 3% bonds one day.   " your advisor told you that it would be prudent after 8 years of holding A shares to move to a new Advisory account" "Oh I thought you were kidding" "Let me show you how that math works out and how your advisor gets paid"     He put you in a VA because he "wanted to guarentee the income gap in retirement". I dont even need to go on. "
So....A-shares are bad....Advisory accounts are bad....VA's are bad..... Oh, I get it, it's just that all Jones advisors rip their clients off by switching them from A shares to VA's or Advisory or bonds or something. Do I have it correct? Well how about this...stop worrying about all those criminal FA's in your organization and just do your own thing. I'm sure they'll all get arrested and barred from the industry soon enough.

Calls, guys like you come and go all the time. You're a dime a dozen. It has nothing to do with Edward Jones. There are lackies at all firms. The difference is, the one's that make it don't come on here whining and crying. They keep working hard and make it work. Don't blame Jones for your problems. Don't blame the 20 other offices on your block, because Merrill, SB, and Morgan have offices down the street full of more advisors than Jones...and they're not crying about the competition in the next cubicle.

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

Ive built a business and I am doing just fine.  I am not struggling to make it and have not been put in the position to have to make it as a new new for three years. I was very clear about that.  I certainly dont envy the position a new new is in by working out of the trunk of their car.  Your right  I am suited for a 9-5 desk job. A 9-5 commissioned desk job which is what I  have been doing for almost three years. 40-45  hours a week and enjoying my life.   I have made it without trading options.  I will say it is stupid to not have options and what makes you think I care how much everyone else uses them.   Its like not selling hammers at a hardware store. 
 
Who said A shares are bad. I put the clients in the intermediate term  A share fixed income funds for half the upfront fee or less and then move them into the funds we really want days later.   So, no you dont have it correct.  Those greedy FAs do not effect my business they actually motivate me and encouraged me to change my strategy. And yes VA's are pretty shitty in most cases.  Go ahead and fill your personal "income gap" with one. I hope you do.  Selling A shares and the benefits of them to a client 8 years or so ago and then suggesting they move into an advisory account we just rolled out is a pretty bullshit move. But hell if you can when a trip for it fuck em. These  are my opinion you dont have to agree.   Maybe this doesnt happen in the land you come from.  I havent blamed anyone for my success.   Nobody is whining, I love this business and my clients . Financial service firms have been ripping off clients for a long time, I am changing the way things are done.  Your clients are loving it.

ytrewq's picture
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If "Financial service firms have been ripping off clients for a long time, I am changing the way things are done." why don't you really do it right.  Quit as an FA and become an Consumer Advocate.  Instead of showing your clients how you are better at cheating the system than all of the rest of us in financial services, you could spent your life exposing and correcting the great injustices.  Not profiting from them.  I would like to encourage you to quit EJ and go work somewhere else but I do not dislike any other firms enough to wish you on them or their clients.  Morons like you are what make the rest of us work harder to protect both our clients and this industry.  I am obviously not as smart as you but I do not think you can "when" a trip.  Are you sure it is your daughter that is mentally retarded?

covered calls's picture
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I didnt say our service wasnt worth a price or that profit was wrong.  I  must say I am pretty awesome at using the system to my advantage. Cheating it is a big stretch. Believe me I have begged Jones to let me go they wont do it. Just waiting for contract expiration in a few months.  You have been reduced to harping on typographical error. Maybe I will "spent" my life exposing injustices.  You got nothing noob.  How bout you leave my daugher out of this my friend.

troll's picture
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covered calls wrote:Ive built a business and I am doing just fine.  I am not struggling to make it and have not been put in the position to have to make it as a new new for three years. I was very clear about that.  I certainly dont envy the position a new new is in by working out of the trunk of their car.  Your right  I am suited for a 9-5 desk job. A 9-5 commissioned desk job which is what I  have been doing for almost three years. 40-45  hours a week and enjoying my life.   I have made it without trading options.  I will say it is stupid to not have options and what makes you think I care how much everyone else uses them.   Its like not selling hammers at a hardware store. 
 
Who said A shares are bad. I put the clients in the intermediate term  A share fixed income funds for half the upfront fee or less and then move them into the funds we really want days later.   So, no you dont have it correct.  Those greedy FAs do not effect my business they actually motivate me and encouraged me to change my strategy. And yes VA's are pretty shitty in most cases.  Go ahead and fill your personal "income gap" with one. I hope you do.  Selling A shares and the benefits of them to a client 8 years or so ago and then suggesting they move into an advisory account we just rolled out is a pretty bullshit move. But hell if you can when a trip for it fuck em. These  are my opinion you dont have to agree.   Maybe this doesnt happen in the land you come from.  I havent blamed anyone for my success.   Nobody is whining, I love this business and my clients . Financial service firms have been ripping off clients for a long time, I am changing the way things are done.  Your clients are loving it.
 
 
If an investment is not worth the cost, why do you show it?  I suspect that it is not the cost that is holding you back, it  telling the client what the cost is.  I try and avoid looking for ways to cut my compensation.   Doing what is highlighted in red is simply diminishing yourself.  Also, what fund family has half or less the A share charge for fixed income?

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

 almost all of them.  franklin templeton is 2.25% and 1.75% at 100k.  Maybe I think the investment is worth the cost at those rates.  I am not really  looking for ways  to cut compensation either.   I am looking for ways to not fleece my clients. This is my opinion.  Everyone has their hand out to get paid in the financial services industry.  The Fund Family, The Fund Managers, The Broker Dealer, The Advisor, The Tax man. There are alot of people in line to get paid before the client does. I am trying to limit that as much as possible.  I really dont use managed funds that much anyway so  its not really an issue.  

troll's picture
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covered calls wrote: almost all of them.  franklin templeton is 2.25% and 1.75% at 100k.  Maybe I think the investment is worth the cost at those rates.  I am not really  looking for ways  to cut compensation either.   I am looking for ways to not fleece my clients. This is my opinion.  Everyone has their hand out to get paid in the financial services industry.  The Fund Family, The Fund Managers, The Broker Dealer, The Advisor, The Tax man. There are alot of people in line to get paid before the client does. I am trying to limit that as much as possible.  I really dont use managed funds that much anyway so  its not really an issue.  
 
Wow that is not quite "half or less".  Having to look for a way to cut commission $500 on a $100m ticket screams WALMART.  The only people you have limited in this hair brained scheme is your B/D and yourself.  If you don't do managed funds, managed money, or VA's, then individual stocks?  Pray tell how much you charge for commissions on trades.  Do you take no commission on picks that don't work?  Wouldn't want to fleece the client.  The amount the client pays for any investment is a direct valuation of the advisor's worth.  Guess you are worth less than others.

troll's picture
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covered calls, what you are doing (if you are actually ducking loads by using bond funds for entry) will land you in arbitration or get your license pulled.  You should reconsider your "business" decision.

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

How is it $500 savings on a 100m ticket. Its $1750.00 dollars.  Secondly your not ducking loads when you go into these funds, they are a dollar cost averaging tool. I have already verified this.  Our firm already screams Walmart. If I hear the prices a client pays for an investment is a direct valuation of the advisors worth I will puke.   I love how people keep doing that.

troll's picture
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covered calls wrote:How is it $500 savings on a 100m ticket.  Sorry, misread your previous post, you are correct.  Its $1750.00 dollars.  Secondly your not ducking loads when you go into these funds, they are a dollar cost averaging tool. That is completely different than what you posted before.  Who said A shares are bad. I put the clients in the intermediate term  A share fixed income funds for half the upfront fee or less and then move them into the funds we really want days later.   This is not a method of DCA.  What happens if the market moves more than the amount you saved the client on the load?  Do you send them a check?  This upfront load is mostly distributed to the broker, your method does not cut FT one bit, it takes away from you.  You are saying that you are not worth the charge.  Once you devalue yourself to a client, it is very hard to be viewed as anything other than a cheaper alternative. And cheaper may win with some, for most of the people we deal with, cheaper is not always better. I have already verified this.  Our firm already screams Walmart. If I hear the prices a client pays for an investment is a direct valuation of the advisors worth I will puke.  Only because you cannot show your own value to a client or this board.   I love how people keep doing that.
 
If your first post was honest, you are violating suitibility rules.  This will get your license pulled.  The first time you pull this little prank and the market moves like it did last Monday and the client catches it, you will end up in arbitration.... and lose your license.  All because you felt your pay should be less.  Nice.

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

Get over it dude. I am going to be fine. You are sucking down the Kool aid and thats fine. I dont even mean that in a bad way.  Its whatever each individual needs to do to pay the bills. The Kool aid doesnt work for me from a business or personal level. I am not going to get into trouble using DCA regardless of length time.  What if I have written instructions from the client of what our strategy is? What if I give them the option either way such as you can pay 5.75 today all in or 2.25 and average in over several days months etc...  Which option do you think they take?  I ultimately dont use managed funds much anyway. I use ETFs which are even more cost effective. I can also offer the client put protection or generate income by selling options agains their ETFs.  The  managed mutual fund strategy simply generates conversation. Do online brokerages stop clients  from doing this strategy. Oh i thought the American Funds guy told me three times they dont sell American Funds on any online brokerage platforms.  BZZTTT wrong answer. Sort of off topic I know.   Just a question though what is the difference between this strategy   and DCA into a VA. The market could go into 30% uptrend before the client gets 25% of their money in the VA.   Am I going to arbitration because they missed it?
 
What if the client took one week longer to decide to roll  funds into me and missed last week? What if the market went down to record lows and I didnt have them in the market yet and the client benefited? A lot of what ifs.    I will admit I do not have the ability to buy into much of anything Jones promotes.   I have been fine for almost three years. I have really been rolling as of  late.  My strategies work for me.   I use what we have to work with and I bend it as much as possible . I am ready for more.  I really didnt come on here to get into this conversation. I was pissed that when someone wants to leave the company (Tough Biz) and asks questions about leaving the company people (trewq, etc..)  get so pissed and rude making someone feel like a loser because they dont want to work 80 hours week as a new new.  I  was lending my support. I stand by the opinion that Jones is a little misleading about income potential during early years. Trewq told the guy to just leave. The cold hard fact is he  wants to and cant without worry. Tough biz wanted to quit taking money from Trewq family but Jones wont let him.  I have asked to be let loose of my contract so I would stop starving Trewqs family and they will not do it.  I am sorry for that. Some of the local brokers will be sorry too when I leave.

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covered calls wrote:Get over it dude. I am going to be fine. You are sucking down the Kool aid and thats fine. I don't work for Jones, I reside at a wire.I dont even mean that in a bad way.  Its whatever each individual needs to do to pay the bills.  So this strategy should be ignored if you are struggling.  The load isn't a ripoff then? The Kool aid doesnt work for me from a business or personal level. I am not going to get into trouble using DCA regardless of length time.  A DCA does not happen in a matter of days.  DCA'ing can be a very effective strategy, however bastardizing it so you can sell someone an unsuitable investment to quickly switch to a suitable investment to avoid commissions is not a DCA, no matter how much you want it to be.  What if I have written instructions from the client of what our strategy is? In arbitration, they will say that you never explained that the market could go up more than they saved, and this was your idea not theirs.  After all, you are the financial advisor.  What if I give them the option either way such as you can pay 5.75 today all in or 2.25 and average in over several days months Lose the months part, that is not whay you said you were doing.  Of course the client is going to take the lower commission, this would not save you in arbitration. etc...  Which option do you think they take?  I ultimately dont use managed funds much anyway. Then why bring it up? I use ETFs which is even more cost effective. From a commission standpoint, only on a long held position that goes down in value.I can also offer the client put protection or generate income by selling options agains their ETFs. Not at Jones you can't. The  managed mutual fund strategy simply generates conversation. Do online brokerages stop clients  from doing this strategy.  There is a serious difference in liability between self directed accounts and brokerage accounts.  Unfair yes, but reality. Oh i thought the American Funds guy told me three times they dont sell American Funds on any online brokerage platforms. This affects you how?  "Mr. Client, you can pay them and get no advice, or you can pay me the same and get advice.  Which do you prefer?" BZZTTT wrong answer. Sort of off topic I know.   Just a question though what is the difference between this strategy   and DCA into a VA.What you are doing is not DCA.  You are exposing a client for some lame brained idea that you are overpayed.  You probably are. The market could go into 30% uptrend before the client gets 25% of their money in the VA.   Am I going to arbitration because they missed it?
 
What if the client took one week longer to decide to roll  funds into me and missed last week?That would be out of your hands, not something you have control over. What if the market went down to record lows and I didnt have them in the market yet and the client benefited? Doesn't kill the suitiblilty argument.  It is the time the market goes against you that will cost you.  A lot of what ifs.    I will admit I do not have the ability to buy into much of anything Jones promotes. I doubt Jones promotes this, or poaching from other Jones brokers for that matter.  I have been fine for almost three years. Most people that are given an existing book are. I have really been rolling as of  late.  My strategies work for me.   I use what we have to work with and I bend itTo cut your own pay!!!  Moron. as much as possible . I am ready for more.  I really didnt come on here to get into this conversation. I was pissed that when someone wants to leave the company (Tough Biz) and asks questions about leaving the company people (trewq, etc..)  get so pissed and rude making someone feel like a loser because they dont want to work 80 hours week as a new new.   Like you?  I  was lending my support. By telling him to risk his license to poach accounts from other Jones brokers.  With friends like you, who needs enemies?I stand by the opinion that Jones is a little misleading about income potential during early years. Trewq told the guy to just leave. The cold hard fact is he cant. Tough biz wanted to quit taking money from Trewq family but Jones wont let him.  I have asked to be let loose of my contract so I would stop starving Trewq family You are full of yourself, you do not want out of your contract for anything but selfish reasons. and they will not do it.  I am sorry for that. Some of the local brokers will be sorry too when I leave.

Anonymous's picture
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Primo wrote:covered calls wrote:
 
I can also offer the client put protection or generate income by selling options agains their ETFs. Not at Jones you can't. 
 

 
I think that statement is a tell-tale sign that CC is a bullshitter.  You admit you are with EDJ.  We all know you can't use options @ EDJ.  You are a liar (and Primo is right about your "strategy" - At worst, you are going to arbitration some day and/or getting your licensed revoked.  At best, it makes you a complete piker in the eyes of your peers.). 

Gaddock's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

You cant use options at EJ? ouch.   Why?

troll's picture
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Gaddock wrote:You cant use options at EJ? ouch.   Why?
 
Options are too speculative.  Jones believes in buy and hold.

Gaddock's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

That as a blanket statement is simply not true. Not only will using options increase a portfolio's retuirn but can reduce the risk by as much a 50%.

Gaddock's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

Not only that covered call & cash secured puts are considered low risk and appropriate for IRA's and other qualified accounts that can use no margin and require investment grade securities. I guess I know to take accounts from EJ.

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Gaddock wrote:That as a blanket statement is simply not true. Not only will using options increase a portfolio's retuirn but can reduce the risk by as much a 50%.
 
Just pointing out Gaddock, that Primo doesn't believe that statement, he is just telling you what EDJ's stance is (and he isn't with EDJ either). 
 
It's not just an EDJ thing either, there are plenty of BDs that don't allow them...covered or naked, no matter how you cook them, not allowed at plenty of firms (yes I think that's stupid too).

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

I wish that you would shut the hell up Icecold.  Did I not say that I was leaving the firm when the contract ran out.  I understand that it could be construed that I have already used options for my clients on my ETF positions.  I said that I "can" use options (as in after I leave) .  I have been positioning my clients in ETFs because they make sense without  the use of options.  After they are my clients at a new firm they will have the ability to use options on their etfs.  From my posts do you think I care what my peers think.  They are the same idiots that believe jones statement about missing the 20 best days in the market in the last 20 years bullshit dispels market timing.  I will never see arbitration for my strategy. Thanks though.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Newbies are funny.  CC, do what you want, I could care less.  My objection was telling another newb to use your hair brained strategy to poach accounts within your own firm.  Your scheme will accomplish one of two things.  Censure or you will keep cutting your own compensation.  Either way, it is funny to me. 

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

An addition to the last comment.  I wouldnt let one person in my "region" manage my money.  Many of them call me on a daily basis for advice.  Some of them are not even aware of my disdain for the firm or other brokers in the region.  Some who call for advice are SEG 4 and SEG 5.  You can call me whatever you want but that is your firm, not mine.  Some are scared shitless of me and  they hope I dont run across their clients.  We even laugh about it together because they know its true.  All I have to do is get them in the door.  Gaddock you hit it on the head. If you can show a jones client how you can generate an income stream by writing covered calls etc...  youve got them if you can earn their trust.  If jones strategy is to buy and hold why wouldnt you write out of the money calls every single month for income.  You were going to hold the stock anyway through thick and thin. Because remember you cant time the market buy quality. LOL 

Gaddock's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

Primo & Ice  thanks for the info ... If I can learn something new each day sooner or later it will add up to something.

Gaddock's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

"If jones strategy is to buy and hold why wouldnt you write out of the money calls every single month for income"
 
Yep, that's exactly what I do. Not to mention using them to enter into and exit positions.

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

Gaddock nice to meet you ,  I am the newbie idiot.  At least that is what everyone seems to think.  I take care of my clients and protect their wealth. But I am a loser because I reduce my fees. I am sorry I have let you down

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Newbies are funny.

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

Lets hear your option strategies you O great senior member.   Lets talk about all the money you have made your clients in 08'.  Since you like to pick my posts apart line by line. At least I have an original thought bitch

Gaddock's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

Didnt let me down, you rock on with yourself. I'm a newbiw myself I guess some may think Im an idiot as well but my production is pretty darn good.

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

I am almost three years out and have been trading since I was 12 years old.  I learned more from my father  about the market when I was 12 than through anything Jones has put out. It is a joke here, but they helped me get my start.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Sorry Gaddock, I was refering to cc.  My comments were not directed at anyone else, although I do see how you could have felt they were directed at newbies in general.  Once again I apologize, keep up the good work.

covered calls's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-30

 Primo, Lets talk about your strategy going forward in this market. I would like to hear it. I might learn something. I obviously have alot to learn before I go through arbitration. No you said Newbies are funny.  Tell us newbies how its done.  I mean seriously teach me something.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

covered calls wrote: Primo, Lets talk about your strategy going forward in this market. I would like to hear it. I might learn something. I obviously have alot to learn before I go through arbitration.
 
 

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