Merrill Lynch Expectations

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on my own's picture
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What are Merrill Lynch's expections for new households per month and what is the minimum asset level they require for them to count towards that goal?If the house hold has under 100k do they assign the house hold to the call center?Thanks for your help.

Flyonwall's picture
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250k is a net new household.  Sub 100k does not go directly to call center, but you don't get paid on it.

on my own's picture
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Fly on wall-How new households per do they want?

Flyonwall's picture
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Not sure the specifics of the newer training program in terms of numbers needed for that requirement, sorry.  The old training program had no requirement for net new households.  Just production, assets, and annuitized assets. 

CareerBanker's picture
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Bump....Just curious as to if anybody has ever been through the ML PMD training program that last 3 years? What was good about it and what was bad? What will be the first production hurdle?

squash2's picture
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Households only matter at Jones... everywhere else it is assets and production..PMD goals depend on starting salary... The higher the starting salary the higher the asset goals..

Flyonwall's picture
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Squash: Not true, households matter at ML in the new PMD training program.  250k and up count as net new households, and there are metrics for minimum NNHs.  

CareerBanker's picture
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I guess my next question is....The 250K Household....Is that how much they have available to invest or their total household yearly income?

Greenbacks2's picture
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You have to be kidding! So you have a 200K  account at this S#!+ firm and they charge the client  do not pay you!  I would like to have people work for me for free to. Where do I find these people?      

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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Greenbacks2 wrote:You have to be kiddinng So you have a 200K  account at this S#!+ firm and they charge the client  do not pay you!  I would like to have people work for me for free to. Where do I find these people?     Welcome to the new Wirehouse environment. This is the future of the megafirms

SFEZ's picture
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Greenbacks2 wrote:You have to be kidding! So you have a 200K  account at this S#!+ firm and they charge the client  do not pay you!  I would like to have people work for me for free to. Where do I find these people?      200K accounts are fine........you get paid on them........They value 250K and up households more, but they pay you as long as the household is 100K or better.If the household is below 100K, then you don't get paid on it.If the account is small but part of a household that is worth over 100K, then you DO get paid on it.If the entire household is 50K, then you don't get paid on it.......and have a couple of windows per year to move it to the call center.....

horton's picture
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What are newbies at wires doing to prospect?I can't imagine cold calling works if you need $100K or more to get paid....

on my own's picture
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For a new rep just starting what is the minimum number of new households with the 100k to stay in ML's good graces?

BullRunt's picture
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ML has two routes for PMD's; first are trainees making less than $50,000 annually and second are those making $50-75,000 annually.  For under $50k, 1 NHH is not required until the Los month 9, then it is 2 (total) by month 12, 3 by 18, 4 by 24, 5 by 30, and finally 6 by the end of the program LOS month 36.  For over $50k, the difference is 7 by month 36 and the they are the number required occur slightly sooner.  The NNA is different for either route as well, but I'll have to get the numbers over the weekend to verify.  If you want more details let me know.The fact is ML wants an "ideal" client base of $250k HH and above, but as mentioned above you do get paid on HH's down to $100k.  They also have the FAC which allows you to move clients over to the call center, and you get a referral fee if business closes.  I have referred 4 prospects and none have closed and not surprising because I don't blame people for not wanting to strictly work with a call center.  The whole wirehouse "feel" is gone at Merrill because of the WMBs pushing bank relationships in the office and the BofA compliance breathing down our necks.  If it weren't for my coworkers and BOM, I would struggle with starting here because the minimums would be difficult to meet.  I find that while cold calling has been the bulk of my prospecting, my best leads have come from cold walking and networking.  I am teamed up with a senior advisor with 50/50 split, which has helped my credibility in meetings.   What makes this partnership work is that my success matters to him and we work together.

squash2's picture
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How does cold calling work if you are shooting for $250K households....not pitching product are ya?

7 Figs's picture
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on my own wrote:What are Merrill Lynch's expections for new households per month and what is the minimum asset level they require for them to count towards that goal?If the house hold has under 100k do they assign the house hold to the call center?Thanks for your help. You need 2 households over $250k in yr 1 I believe.  However, I would not rely on this group to tell you what you need to do to keep your job.  Ask your complex director / leader of PMD program locally.

BullRunt's picture
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I generally use lead lists from databases.  If I'm calling prospects at home, our branch has an account with salesgenie.com which I can build lists with certain parameters.  For the most part those parameters hold true for investable assets.  2 NHH is what you need for first year at ML if your salary is less than $50k, and I don't pitch products on first call.  I introduce myself, my team, and ask how they are currently managing risk in their portfolio, if they tell me how, then I know have someone who is somewhat competent when it comes to investing and push for meeting in person, it they do not know I ask more questions driving down quickly to whether or not they are qualified, if so, let's meet for coffee.  It has worked for me.  Also as a newbie, I've done 2 seminars and planning for more.  

Roxie's picture
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BullRunt wrote:The whole wirehouse "feel" is gone at Merrill because of the WMBs pushing bank relationships in the office and the BofA compliance breathing down our necks.  If it weren't for my coworkers and BOM, I would struggle with starting here because the minimums would be difficult to meet. If you could expand on this.  I have talked with several BOMs at Merrill and they say that BOA has not changed the culture much and have left Merrill alone.  Also, hasn't Merrill had CMAs and Beyond Banking for years, what's different?Thanks!!

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While many of the platforms like CMA and beyond banking have existed, they were never the biggest component of upper management's efforts.  Lately, I feel as though BofA personnel have come through our branch to give training on how to prospect our own clients for banking products.  We have a wealth management outlook tool which is helpful when I need it, but I think it is a waste of time to mine a client for checking accounts and accolades cards.  As far as the culture, the FAs in the office haven't changed and the BOMs seem to be relatively the same, but there are pressures from above on day to day activities that are geared towards the bank.   My manager asks me if I have had a chance to talk to all my clients who own homes about refinancing.  While it makes sense for some, taking the time to reach out to everyone on a bank product seems to be something that the WMBs in the office could do more of and let me worry about brokerage products.  Maybe our system will be better this coming fall when everything will be fully integrated but until then there needs to be more streamlining of efforts.  As for simple operations like restocking paper, note pads, coffee, business cards, and marketing support, BofA is failing.  Their system is too labor intensive for my CA which takes away from time she has for me and her other FAs.  Again this is my particular branch and complex and is how I feel, in other parts of the country the integration may be going well.

blackheart's picture
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Roxie wrote:BullRunt wrote:The whole wirehouse "feel" is gone at Merrill because of the WMBs pushing bank relationships in the office and the BofA compliance breathing down our necks.  If it weren't for my coworkers and BOM, I would struggle with starting here because the minimums would be difficult to meet. If you could expand on this.  I have talked with several BOMs at Merrill and they say that BOA has not changed the culture much and have left Merrill alone.  Also, hasn't Merrill had CMAs and Beyond Banking for years, what's different?Thanks!! I would agree with the comments that the wirehouse feel is gone and compliance is more assertive.  You have to remember that the BOMs are managers.  Of course they are going to tell you everything is fine.  That is part of their responsibility as directed by their bosses.  It has definitely become much more bureaucratic in my office.  I will say the wealth management bankers do not bother me too much.  I have never been one to make a client sticky, which is what I see the bankers offering.  If a client wants to go I want them to be able to go as easily as possible.  Of course, if I leave and they have a desire to follow me I want it to be simple too.

Otane's picture
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The industry was use to beginning FA's get accounts from departing advisor's, and from senior FA's who can't bother with smaller accounts. Hence, the large hurdles and the lack of cold calling ability by many advisors today. At the majors, they are at the opposite end of the spectrum, and you won't make a living when you get out with their proposed hurdles.I have never saw a more backwards business model, and yet people survive and thrive.  

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BullRunt wrote:ML has two routes for PMD's; first are trainees making less than $50,000 annually and second are those making $50-75,000 annually.  For under $50k, 1 NHH is not required until the Los month 9, then it is 2 (total) by month 12, 3 by 18, 4 by 24, 5 by 30, and finally 6 by the end of the program LOS month 36.  For over $50k, the difference is 7 by month 36 and the they are the number required occur slightly sooner.  The NNA is different for either route as well, but I'll have to get the numbers over the weekend to verify.  If you want more details let me know.The fact is ML wants an "ideal" client base of $250k HH and above, but as mentioned above you do get paid on HH's down to $100k.  They also have the FAC which allows you to move clients over to the call center, and you get a referral fee if business closes.  I have referred 4 prospects and none have closed and not surprising because I don't blame people for not wanting to strictly work with a call center.  The whole wirehouse "feel" is gone at Merrill because of the WMBs pushing bank relationships in the office and the BofA compliance breathing down our necks.  If it weren't for my coworkers and BOM, I would struggle with starting here because the minimums would be difficult to meet.  I find that while cold calling has been the bulk of my prospecting, my best leads have come from cold walking and networking.  I am teamed up with a senior advisor with 50/50 split, which has helped my credibility in meetings.   What makes this partnership work is that my success matters to him and we work together.thanks for this posting. Can someone clarify ? How attractive is the PMD program for transitioning professionals that are already earning very high 5 figure compensation (plus commissions = low 6 figure) but in a differnt industry?   There's no way I can lower my current comp to 50-75k or whatever the PMD pays now. I thought it used to have a 100k tier ?   I am a successful b2b sales vet in industry, and my customers could be  considered to be a target-rich environment of small businesses for asset gathering for 401ks, etc.  I'm scheduled to take the ML PMD math/economics tests next week, and am pretty jazzed about it actually.  However, the above #'s for nnh seems low , almost too easy, unless I'm reading it wrong:  only 1 new account needed after 9 months ?   2 toal after 12, and only  7 total by end of 36 months LOS even at the "experienced" 50-75k salary range ?  It seems like it would be relatively easy for someone to hit those targets even if the yjust had a loose network or specialty niche to tap into.  Or perhaps I'm missing something from the above post?   Thank you for any insghts. 

squash2's picture
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FApath wrote:BullRunt wrote:ML has two routes for PMD's; first are trainees making less than $50,000 annually and second are those making $50-75,000 annually.  For under $50k, 1 NHH is not required until the Los month 9, then it is 2 (total) by month 12, 3 by 18, 4 by 24, 5 by 30, and finally 6 by the end of the program LOS month 36.  For over $50k, the difference is 7 by month 36 and the they are the number required occur slightly sooner.  The NNA is different for either route as well, but I'll have to get the numbers over the weekend to verify.  If you want more details let me know.The fact is ML wants an "ideal" client base of $250k HH and above, but as mentioned above you do get paid on HH's down to $100k.  They also have the FAC which allows you to move clients over to the call center, and you get a referral fee if business closes.  I have referred 4 prospects and none have closed and not surprising because I don't blame people for not wanting to strictly work with a call center.  The whole wirehouse "feel" is gone at Merrill because of the WMBs pushing bank relationships in the office and the BofA compliance breathing down our necks.  If it weren't for my coworkers and BOM, I would struggle with starting here because the minimums would be difficult to meet.  I find that while cold calling has been the bulk of my prospecting, my best leads have come from cold walking and networking.  I am teamed up with a senior advisor with 50/50 split, which has helped my credibility in meetings.   What makes this partnership work is that my success matters to him and we work together.thanks for this posting. Can someone clarify ? How attractive is the PMD program for transitioning professionals that are already earning very high 5 figure compensation (plus commissions = low 6 figure) but in a differnt industry?   There's no way I can lower my current comp to 50-75k or whatever the PMD pays now. I thought it used to have a 100k tier ?   I am a successful b2b sales vet in industry, and my customers could be  considered to be a target-rich environment of small businesses for asset gathering for 401ks, etc.  I'm scheduled to take the ML PMD math/economics tests next week, and am pretty jazzed about it actually.  However, the above #'s for nnh seems low , almost too easy, unless I'm reading it wrong:  only 1 new account needed after 9 months ?   2 toal after 12, and only  7 total by end of 36 months LOS even at the "experienced" 50-75k salary range ?  It seems like it would be relatively easy for someone to hit those targets even if the yjust had a loose network or specialty niche to tap into.  Or perhaps I'm missing something from the above post?   Thank you for any insghts. Why would your "network" trust you with their money after you have spent all this time in a different industry... your network is useless because no one gives money to a new guy...Salary won't be $100K... failure rate is too high... nnh maybe low, but look what kind of assets and production you need to stay in program...

Winston Smith's picture
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Merrill Lynch is gone.  True story.  I don't know what this is.

FApath's picture
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why would network trust me with their $$?  I formerly worked in lending: completed an intensive credit training program with a commercial bank, including graduate level courses, and professional seminars in  finance/accounting/credit etc.   I've heard "go independent" before but that's besides the point for now, as I'm trying to learn more about the PM program and how it works for professionals considering making the changeover. thanks.    

squash2's picture
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I am just saying.... Lending and investing is completely different on a trust level..

BullRunt's picture
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FAPathAt Merrill Lynch / BofA a PMD's salary will never be above $75k, they restructured their pay after the merger.  While the salary will never be higher than $75k, as an FA in Stage 2 production (after licensing, and 4 month Stage 1) you are eligible for quarterly performance incentives.  It amounts to 15% of your quarter's PCs above and beyond the required cumulative PCs.An example would be Los month 9 requiring 18,000 PCs for a salary under $50k, FA's total PCs are 28,000 and during that quarter (mos 7-9) they had 20,000 PCs, nets out to be a cash incentive of 20,000 * 15% = $3000.Also there is monthly compensation which is based on PCs you generate above and beyond monthly salary - 1/3 prior quarter cash incentive.  At Mos 12, 24, and 36 there are annual wealth choice awards which are 15% of all PCs generated in that 12 month period if the hurdles are met.  There is the possibility of you coming into this industry and making a decent amount of money but only if you produce.  While these numbers for NNH may "seem" low, the PCs requirements and NNA will keep you busy.  And of course the numbers I stated above were for a lower ($50k) salary then you are looking for.  By the end of the PMD program (36 months) a person making between $50 and $75k is required to have 350,000 in cumulative PCs, $8 million in Net New Annuitized, and 7 Net New Households.  Goodluck with the Hiring Process.

squash2's picture
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What is PCs? is that gross commission?

FApath's picture
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thanks bullrunt.  In reality, what is needed to generate , lets say, 10,000 production credits.  In general, I could mulitply that model for 10k PC's by  a factor of 35 and build biz plan around that = 350,000 pc's after 36 month los.  I know im oversimplifying it...but not knowing what goes into creating a production credi, i have to build some kind of model to see what's reasonably do-able.  Maybe PC's are kind of like snipe hunting.  How catch a snipe if you don't know what it is or what it eats, or where it lives or mating habits etc.  Such is a the nature of a  "production credit" to those of us not in the biz, so 350k PC's could be daunting..or it could be achievable if knew more about its nature.  For now, a PC is an an abtract metric, which is why I'm asking here..and will be meeting with an FA I know next Monday to help expore more.  Heck, my target market may already be saturated with FA's also...and I'm not so sure about giving up my good gig in the current economy. thanks BR. 

Otane's picture
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BullRunt wrote: By the end of the PMD program (36 months) a person making between $50 and $75k is required to have 350,000 in cumulative PCs, $8 million in Net New Annuitized, and 7 Net New Households.  Goodluck with the Hiring Process.Which means you better put your client's sorry ass in PIA charging 2% at graduation. Otherwise, you will only be able to afford day old tacos at El Pollo Loco .

FApath's picture
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so production credits are a proxy for earned commissions from what I can tell. In general, a small business with a 600k retirement plan would generate what kind of productiion credit  ?. ?  Some small bizzes have plans for employees, some don't. some new accounts would be -or might be - transfers from other firms, and some may be totally new business, starting a plan from scratch for the small business.   Just trying to learn here from those with insights and experience. thanks.

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Production Credits can be likened to earned commission, but remember it still has to be thrown against a grid.  While I work mostly in annuitized personal accounts (PIA), creating a new retirement plan for existing clients, transferring from elsewhere, or modifying an existing plan would all give you PCs.  It completely depends on how the fee structure is.  If a 600k retirement plan is charged a fee of 1% then you have 6000 PCs, splattered on a grid which creates a payout to the FA of some %.   As Otane said above, I use PIA at 1.5% annually for all money up to 1 mill, then 1% for anything above and beyond.  It keeps me fair and yet I can make a living.  1.5% represents my PCs for that account, plain and simple.  While other products have different ways of computing PCs, with annuitized money it can be simple.  Some other things to look at would be Structured Products which give an upfront PC based on % of the money deposited and that only occurs once.  Transactional accounts have the commissions you mentioned and those are your PCs for that.  Hope that helps a little.

FApath's picture
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thank you yes very much helpful. I appreciate the feedback.

The BEAR's picture
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FA PATH If you tak a 500k 401K from a guy who rolls it over into an ML account. the rule of thumb is 1% of asset =#PCs.  For every $30million in assets under mgmt you will make $100,000.  I am a transitioning professional w/25 years in sales in another BtoB industry. Good program, Exams not easy but doable if you put the time in, Lots and I mean lots to learn. Plan on prospecting your tush off. Make a list of everyone you know that could have $250K or more in investable assets and more. Then ask yourself if you could call and ask them about there money. This is what you will ultimately need to be doing every day. At Jones you have to knock on 150 doors everyday for two years. If you don't the fire you because of your "activity level" This isn't necessarily easier just a bit more professional.  Just got licensed and about to close a $2million account. Wish I did this ten years ago. However, plan on having a nest egg to get you thru year 2.The Wealth bankers don't bother you too much. Looking to write mortgages to 780+ FICA scores and Max 70/30 LTV. They can't find these prospects anywhere else but the ML accounts. Just another arrow in the quiver.ML still has the brand, products and training for a second career. 

co.external's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-18

Help: Annuity & Insurance PayoutHi, I am about to start the PMDP program. I had worked for a Insurance based financial services company, and I am bringing a client who needs a minimum of 1 million immediate annuity. I need to know what the PC would be on this product with the following assumptions: A MetLife 1 million SPIA pays 4% gross dealer concession (that would be $40,000 GDC). Does anyone know the approximate PC for this case?  I also have the same question for life insurance.  Does Merrill pay the same payout (47% for new trainees) for annuities and life insurance?Thank you for your help! 

The BEAR's picture
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Keep in mind that a PC does not go into your pocket. Look at it as gross commission. If you are in the PMD program they will not allow you to close this business until series 7 and 66 passed and you have your life/health license. After 7/66 you will get a production number. Usually after 4 months. Not sure of the type of annuity but assuming they will put down $1m (You will find they are crazy to do this) it will generally give you 4-6% PC's of which you will see 48% of less your salary. They are usually 50bps trails as well. All depends on the product. But they really aren't paying you to do this kind of selling. They want wealth gathering into annuitized investment programs. They do not want you only selling insurance.

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BEAR, thank you so much for your input. I sincerely appreciate it.  Please share more if you don't mind. I already have my 7/66, and since I am very knowledgeable in risk managed and income products, my strategy is to get a foot in the door via these risk managed products. The man who is requesting this is a man who created the 403(b) plan with some senators back in the day. He was in the financial services industry for over 50 years. Going back to your input, so if I sell a 1 mill product that pays 4% GDC (I've head that "PC"s are lower than GDC) and assume that I get 3.5% PC on it, then it's 35,000 PC for which I'd get 47% of (minus salary).  I hope they will pay this on the month that it settles, which would be a nice lump sum.  It will give me a good start. And I know I will get a $250k or higher managed account from that too.  The BEAR wrote:Keep in mind that a PC does not go into your pocket. Look at it as gross commission. If you are in the PMD program they will not allow you to close this business until series 7 and 66 passed and you have your life/health license. After 7/66 you will get a production number. Usually after 4 months. Not sure of the type of annuity but assuming they will put down $1m (You will find they are crazy to do this) it will generally give you 4-6% PC's of which you will see 48% of less your salary. They are usually 50bps trails as well. All depends on the product. But they really aren't paying you to do this kind of selling. They want wealth gathering into annuitized investment programs. They do not want you only selling insurance.

blackheart's picture
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I'm not sure with your immediate annuity situation, but compliance is really cracking down and only allowing B share variables.  The grid for B shares is lower.

Flyonwall's picture
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blackheart wrote:I'm not sure with your immediate annuity situation, but compliance is really cracking down and only allowing B share variables.  The grid for B shares is lower. Where?  At ML?  News to me.  Grid is grid.  And I saw nothing of compliance limiting to B shares. 

The BEAR's picture
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They will be very hard pressed to pay you 30-40K or whatever the amount is when you have not brought in any net annuitized Assets or housholds. You may see some of it LOS month 4 which will be 7 months after you get your number not when it settles. Remember it's a Bank not an insurance company.

Greenbacks2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-03

47% ooCH. ML  gets $18,550 you get $16,450  They make more then you 

FApath's picture
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havent been around for a while.  this has likely been asked before, but what actually is a net new household?  I'd presume that the retirement plan for a small business , lets say 20 employees,  would  be a new "household".   If that's true, what makes it a 'net" new household?  From what I see on boards here, the retirement plan assets of just 2 small business wold seem to meet that hurdle ?    Was offered FA trainee positions with several different firms over past year, as i have a relatively extensive network of  specialized small business contacts/biz owners whose employees know very little about 401k's saving, investing etc. . However, the caveat of course is that the biz owners are likely already working with an FA or someone, maybe a brother in law etc., although i haven't really asked them all yetOn the lighter side, getting a book going woulld appear relatively easy (i mean that as compared to a college grad cold calling) to get a book going,  Im not suggesting it would be easy but it seems feasible.  I did the interviews as a backup plan in case i was downsized and lost current job etc. but so far so good, even thoug hi think i cold do well in FA world. but..back to question re: net new households for ML pmd

Stockguy2011's picture
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FApath wrote:so production credits are a proxy for earned commissions from what I can tell. In general, a small business with a 600k retirement plan would generate what kind of productiion credit  ?. ?  Some small bizzes have plans for employees, some don't. some new accounts would be -or might be - transfers from other firms, and some may be totally new business, starting a plan from scratch for the small business.   Just trying to learn here from those with insights and experience. thanks..25% - .50% on the assets.  600k retirement plans are not incredibly profitable.  You are talking between $1500-3000 in PC's or Gross Commission.  Of course you could always overcharge (1%) and have someone else come in, charge .50%, and take it from you.

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FApath, make no mistake - this will be the hardest thing you've ever had to do.  Worth it the long run if you gut it out ?- Most definitely.  Times will not be easy for 2-3 years at a minimum.These relationships you have..nice to have, don't get me wrong.  But they probably already have an advisor, especially if they have anything to invest (250k+). Uprooting an existing relationship is not always an easy thing to do.  Most people are not exactly thrilled about hearing another "sales pitch" from a rookie advisor.There are ways around all of that, but it does take time.   Don't want to be a downer, but don't go into it thinking it will be a cakewalk - it isn't.

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FApath wrote:havent been around for a while.  this has likely been asked before, but what actually is a net new household? Any new household opened where the combined assets/outstanding liability balance is >$250K. Mortgage only households count if the liability balance is >$250K. A household must meet 2 of 3 requirements: last name, same address, same SSN/TIN. Any person/entity with a pre-existing relationship/account are not net new. Net new also includes any pre-existing account that moves north of $250K would also count. If you lose an account or an existing account moves below $250K that would count as a net lost household. If your goal is 2 net new households you have to attain just that. So, if you gain two net new and lose one you only have one net new.

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Joined: 2010-04-04

ZwingDing wrote:FApath wrote:havent been around for a while.  this has likely been asked before, but what actually is a net new household? Any new household opened where the combined assets/outstanding liability balance is >$250K. Mortgage only households count if the liability balance is >$250K. A household must meet 2 of 3 requirements: last name, same address, same SSN/TIN. Any person/entity with a pre-existing relationship/account are not net new. Net new also includes any pre-existing account that moves north of $250K would also count. If you lose an account or an existing account moves below $250K that would count as a net lost household. If your goal is 2 net new households you have to attain just that. So, if you gain two net new and lose one you only have one net new.thank you, that's what I had thought.  While i know the career is challenging and small employer retirement plans don't sound like much, my own informal polling of many of the employees of these potential prospects is that there is very low participation in the employers retirement plan. no rep comes by to explain to the benefits of why they should particpate etc.   A little education can go a long way, with a $600k plan becoming $1mm or more after there is buy-in from the employees who have finally received some education on how to make contributions, lower their current tax liability, and save for retirement etc..or a very very rainy day if they had to ever tap into it to borrow as a last resort.   While the biz owners themselves  likely have their personal wealth managed by an advisor, and perhaps the same advisor has the employer 401k plan also, none of that does the rank and file employees any good if they don't know anything about it or how to ask questions or how to get involved in it.   That's the essence of the value proposition.   However, I already do rather well,  steadily employed, with no real need to make career move to take the risk and try somethng like this yet. Several colleagues have suggested I do it, but, well, the more rational side of me says: keep the current gig, no grind in an office all day, car allowance, make sure the family is fed and my own mortgage and kids college funded. Priorities. That's really the deciding factor. Although, as a part-time gig for hobby and fun sake,  i could probably do something like making referrals to an Indy but I havent exlpored that option really.  Thanks for the feedback though..truly appreciated 

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