Leaving Insurance Co to Wirehouse

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CueYouWhy's picture
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Hey folks,
I am working for an insurance company right now, and I hate it! my passion lies with the brokage business. We are forced to focus on insurance products and limited to mutual funds and wrap accounts. I applied for ML, MS, and UBS. I am a fairly decent producer, and recieved many awards with being the top 10% of the agency...are there any chances of getting in? Please help me...I need to get out of here NOW! Thank you all ahead of time for the replies.

CueYouWhy's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-13

oh and to add to that, I got a call from a few banks like PNC bank and NYLife...both which I declined.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

It sounds like you'll probably be ok. Keep us posted.

CueYouWhy's picture
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I sure will bobby, I submitted my resume and application friday of last week...How long does it usually take for them to contact you?

troll's picture
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CueYouWhy wrote:
I sure will bobby, I submitted my resume and application friday of last week...How long does it usually take for them to contact you?

I don't know. When I was in your shoes, I called the branch managers and made appointments to meet them in person.

BigRed's picture
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ML is recruiting me from NMFN after hearing about my success there

troll's picture
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CueYouWhy wrote:
Hey folks,
I am working for an insurance company right now, and I hate it! my passion lies with the brokage business. We are forced to focus on insurance products and limited to mutual funds and wrap accounts. I applied for ML, MS, and UBS. I am a fairly decent producer, and recieved many awards with being the top 10% of the agency...are there any chances of getting in? Please help me...I need to get out of here NOW! Thank you all ahead of time for the replies.

Where are you located?
If in NY, and interested in talking to Smith Barney, PM me back

CueYouWhy's picture
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Bobby Hull wrote:CueYouWhy wrote:
I sure will bobby, I submitted my resume and application friday of last week...How long does it usually take for them to contact you?

I don't know. When I was in your shoes, I called the branch managers and made appointments to meet them in person.

 
Okay, thats probably a better way of doing it. Thanks

CueYouWhy's picture
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pratoman wrote:CueYouWhy wrote:
Hey folks,
I am working for an insurance company right now, and I hate it! my passion lies with the brokage business. We are forced to focus on insurance products and limited to mutual funds and wrap accounts. I applied for ML, MS, and UBS. I am a fairly decent producer, and recieved many awards with being the top 10% of the agency...are there any chances of getting in? Please help me...I need to get out of here NOW! Thank you all ahead of time for the replies.

Where are you located?
If in NY, and interested in talking to Smith Barney, PM me back

 
I wish I was located in NY...no I'm in Washington DC area

Section16's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-10

ML, MS, and <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />UBS are great places to look to.  I'm a big fan of UBS currently.  There may be some good regional opportunities in DC.  You are smart to stay away from PNC. 

troll's picture
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I'm sorry to ask this, but "my passion lies with the brokage business." what do you mean by this?
Wirehouses aren't interested in people who are interested in the brokerage business.
To be clear, what I mean by the "Brokerage business" is one where the individual broker chooses which stock and bonds and mutual funds etc to buy for a client and then manages that account for the client. A broker makes his money by the buying and selling of shares for the benefit of the client.
What  the wirehouse "Brokerage Business" means to me is: A place where the individual decision making is discouraged, the individual management of accounts is discouraged, the Financial "Consultant"'s job is to be an asset gatherer who makes his money by placing client funds into "manged Money" products and then goes out to find more assets to cram into these self same products (which generally suck BTW).
Just want you to understand that you might be jumping from the fire into the frying pan. It should be better than the fire, but only by a matter of degrees. If your objective is to be an actual Stock Broker, don't mention that at any interview with a wirehouse, it's not what they want you to be.
Good luck to you.

bXpress's picture
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Joined: 2006-10-09

I agree, at the wirehouse you will be amanager of thrid party managers and be asked to get 6MM to 10MM in 12 to 18 months.  Can you do that?  Do you want to do that?

CueYouWhy's picture
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Whomitmayconcer wrote:
I'm sorry to ask this, but "my passion lies with the brokage business." what do you mean by this?
Wirehouses aren't interested in people who are interested in the brokerage business.
To be clear, what I mean by the "Brokerage business" is one where the individual broker chooses which stock and bonds and mutual funds etc to buy for a client and then manages that account for the client. A broker makes his money by the buying and selling of shares for the benefit of the client.
What  the wirehouse "Brokerage Business" means to me is: A place where the individual decision making is discouraged, the individual management of accounts is discouraged, the Financial "Consultant"'s job is to be an asset gatherer who makes his money by placing client funds into "manged Money" products and then goes out to find more assets to cram into these self same products (which generally suck BTW).
Just want you to understand that you might be jumping from the fire into the frying pan. It should be better than the fire, but only by a matter of degrees. If your objective is to be an actual Stock Broker, don't mention that at any interview with a wirehouse, it's not what they want you to be.
Good luck to you.

 
hmm..Really? I didn't know that, so you think I should stay with the insurance company, I guess I just feel so limited with a such a small platform to play with and a series 6. But if you say that either way I'm going to be asset gathers...I might as well stay here then because thats what I am doing essentially anyways, just with a little bit more demand for the insurance side. Thanks for the input I need it.

CueYouWhy's picture
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bXpress wrote:I agree, at the wirehouse you will be amanager of thrid party managers and be asked to get 6MM to 10MM in 12 to 18 months.  Can you do that?  Do you want to do that?
I guess..to answer your question: I'm doing it here anyways plus selling insurance. I would thought they actually encourage you to choose your own stocks instead of putting everything into manage account. Thanks

Philo Kvetch's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-17

If you're doing it all "anyways[sic] plus selling insurance", why do you ask about making a move?  Do you think it's any different anywhere else?

gad12's picture
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CueYouWhy wrote:
I guess..to answer your question: I'm doing it here anyways plus selling insurance. I would thought they actually encourage you to choose your own stocks instead of putting everything into manage account. Thanks

You don't know the first thing about picking your own stocks.  Stick with managers or indexes.

CueYouWhy's picture
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Philo Kvetch wrote:If you're doing it all "anyways[sic] plus selling insurance", why do you ask about making a move?  Do you think it's any different anywhere else?
 
I'm doing it all except for individual stocks/bonds/and ETFs. Because the company just deals with mutual funds...again very limited platform. It may be the same concept at a wirehouse, but at least I can pick individual stocks.

CueYouWhy's picture
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Yeah, you are right...I'd suck but just to say you can do it is always good.
 
gad12 wrote:CueYouWhy wrote:
I guess..to answer your question: I'm doing it here anyways plus selling insurance. I would thought they actually encourage you to choose your own stocks instead of putting everything into manage account. Thanks

You don't know the first thing about picking your own stocks.  Stick with managers or indexes.

MattHRB's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-25

I came from NY Life to a full service firm. The transition is easier than expected. Try to keep your contact and client list close to you, as you should already have a base to work with.

CueYouWhy's picture
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will do, thanks Matt

troll's picture
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Whomitmayconcer wrote:
I'm sorry to ask this, but "my passion lies with the brokage business." what do you mean by this?
Wirehouses aren't interested in people who are interested in the brokerage business.
To be clear, what I mean by the "Brokerage business" is one where the individual broker chooses which stock and bonds and mutual funds etc to buy for a client and then manages that account for the client. A broker makes his money by the buying and selling of shares for the benefit of the client.
What  the wirehouse "Brokerage Business" means to me is: A place where the individual decision making is discouraged, the individual management of accounts is discouraged, the Financial "Consultant"'s job is to be an asset gatherer who makes his money by placing client funds into "manged Money" products and then goes out to find more assets to cram into these self same products (which generally suck BTW).
Just want you to understand that you might be jumping from the fire into the frying pan. It should be better than the fire, but only by a matter of degrees. If your objective is to be an actual Stock Broker, don't mention that at any interview with a wirehouse, it's not what they want you to be.
Good luck to you.

CUEYOUWHY, ignore this guy, he’s talking out of his hat.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
You'll have the option of using managed money, being an “asset gatherer”, tailoring  asset allocation models to individual clients, and hiring outside managers with far great experience and expertise than you have (a process that works superbly, btw, and is the approach taken by all serious money in this country, like DB plans, endowments and foundations) OR you can deal in running accounts buying individual stocks and bonds for clients OR you can do both.
You should keep in mind, however, what your REAL career creation plan MUST be starting out is opening accounts and gathering assets, regardless of how you approach the actual management of those accounts.
 

troll's picture
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CueYouWhy wrote:
bXpress wrote:I agree, at the wirehouse you will be amanager of thrid party managers and be asked to get 6MM to 10MM in 12 to 18 months.  Can you do that?  Do you want to do that?
I guess..to answer your question: I'm doing it here anyways plus selling insurance. I would thought they actually encourage you to choose your own stocks instead of putting everything into manage account. Thanks

 
The rationale behind hiring managers (mutual fund or SMA) is that they can specialize in a specific approach and style to money management (I’m not a believer that any one broker can be the best small cap value manager AND the best large cap growth manager AND the best fixed income manager, etc..)  , they have much more training and experience at it than you AND they can devote 100% of their time to it. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
You, otoh, will have servicing accounts and prospecting (the things you actually get paid for) on your plate.
 

troll's picture
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Mikebutler222,
That's why I asked what he meant by "my passion lies with the brokerage business".
Maybe you don't know what he means either. Maybe he doesn't know what it means. I only know what I think it means.
But. As far as going into an interview TODAY and telling the branch manager that you want to be a classic Stock Broker is one of the quicker ways to get your resume at the top of the circular file. (Is this true, or is it false?)

troll's picture
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Whomitmayconcer wrote:
But. As far as going into an interview TODAY and telling the branch manager that you want to be a classic Stock Broker is one of the quicker ways to get your resume at the top of the circular file. (Is this true, or is it false?)

Yawn... he's being RECRUITED, remember? As to your question; false. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
You may well get an explanation about how, especially as a newbie, neither you or your clients are best served by that approach. But you won’t have your resume sent to the trash just because you don’t understand how most assets are managed or what the firm’s “best practices” views are. That’s just ridiculous. I mean like “Newt will attract liberal voters” ridiculous.
The fact is your description of ‘wirehouse brokerage business” is simply false. Is there an emphasis on asset gathering, using an asset allocation model  and hiring the best possible minds to run the money in those individual sleeves? Without a doubt, yes, and to my mind, for a very good reason. Does that mean you can’t run accounts buying individual stock and bonds, absolutely not.
 

troll's picture
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Yawn... he's being RECRUITED, remember?
"Hey folks,
I am working for an insurance company right now, and I hate it! my passion lies with the brokage business. We are forced to focus on insurance products and limited to mutual funds and wrap accounts. I applied for ML, MS, and UBS. I am a fairly decent producer, and recieved many awards with being the top 10% of the agency...are there any chances of getting in? Please help me...I need to get out of here NOW! Thank you all ahead of time for the replies."
"oh and to add to that, I got a call from a few banks like PNC bank and NYLife...both which I declined. "
Why don't you learn how to read?

troll's picture
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You might want to start learning to read by learning that words have their own meaning and not the meaning that you ascribe.
"Discouraged" does not mean "Forbidden" it means that you are advised and incentivized against doing it.
Meanwhile, I guess that if I said "insisted to the branch manager that you want to be a classic Stock Broker" then there would be less doubt that it would be one of the quickest ways to give the interviewer a non favorable impression of yourself.
Wirehouse brokerages do not want stock pickers as brokers. There are several very good reasons for this from their perspective. That being the case (that there are several good reasons from their perspective) it is safe and fair to say that they don't want them. Therefore, if your idea of going into a wirehouse brokerage because you have a "passion for the brokerage business" that is defined as a traditional stock and bond broker, chance are very good that you're going to be disappointed.

troll's picture
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Whomitmayconcer wrote:
Why don't you learn how to read?

 
You're tedious beyond words, and consistantly so, regardless of the subject.
Bottom line, your assertion that his resume would be tossed if he said he was interested in running individual stock and bond accounts was wrong. Your assertion that SMA products suck was wrong. Your assertion of what "wirehouse brokerage business" is was wrong. And, since you're consistantly wrong about the subject at hand, you should be ignored.

troll's picture
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Whomitmayconcer wrote: <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
You might want to start learning to read by learning that words have their own meaning and not the meaning that you ascribe.
Here we go again with the dictionary according to Whomit. Not doubt “yelling” will be defined….it's interesting how you go into this defintion routine just has you begin to rephase your own comments...
And now for the classic Whomit dance steps….
 
Note how, having been caught out speaking like this…
Whomitmayconcer wrote:
But. As far as going into an interview TODAY and telling the branch manager that you want to be a classic Stock Broker is one of the quicker ways to get your resume at the top of the circular file. (Is this true, or is it false?)

He modifies his comments, takes off the sharp edges and reformulates the claim to this.
Whomitmayconcer wrote:
Meanwhile, I guess that if I said "insisted to the branch manager that you want to be a classic Stock Broker" then there would be less doubt that it would be one of the quickest ways to give the interviewer a non favorable impression of yourself.
But, even that’s incorrect. Would it really leave a “non favorable [sic] impression”? Doubtful, it would simply show that as an outsider to the industry you’re not familiar with the “best business” practices of the firm and what they envision their junior most brokers doing with their time. The chances are great that what the interviewee would get is an explanation of what the firm prefers, and why. Should the interviewee gone on the say he’s not interested in that, the two will quickly part ways.
No “top of the circular file” no “non favorable impression”, just an explanation.
 
This, dear readers, is Whomit’s MO. Outlandish, laughable declarative statements that can’t be defended, followed by screeching and mewing when he’s called on them and then the inevitable rollback/moving of the goal posts/ condescension in follow-up posts.
 
 
 

troll's picture
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Whomitmayconcer wrote:

Why don't you learn how to read?

 
You're tedious beyond words, and consistantly so, regardless of the subject.
Bottom line, your assertion that his resume would be tossed if he said he was interested in running individual stock and bond accounts was wrong. Your assertion that SMA products suck was wrong. Your assertion of what "wirehouse brokerage business" is was wrong. And, since you're consistantly wrong about the subject at hand, you should be ignored.
LIE!
"Bottom line, your assertion that his resume would be tossed if he said he was interested in running individual stock and bond accounts was wrong. "
The line of mine that you cited was in reference to your assertion that the poster was being recruited.
When you distort the facts intentionally, you are lying. Liars tell lies. You are a liar.
End of story.

troll's picture
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Whomitmayconcer wrote: <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Wirehouses aren't interested in people who are interested in the brokerage business.
To be clear, what I mean by the "Brokerage business" is one where the individual broker chooses which stock and bonds and mutual funds etc to buy for a client and then manages that account for the client. A broker makes his money by the buying and selling of shares for the benefit of the client.
What  the wirehouse "Brokerage Business" means to me is: A place where the individual decision making is discouraged, the individual management of accounts is discouraged, the Financial "Consultant"'s job is to be an asset gatherer who makes his money by placing client funds into "manged Money" products and then goes out to find more assets to cram into these self same products (which generally suck BTW).

Since this is a subject discussed here so often, I thought it might be worth addressing it further. Not for or with Whomit necessarily, but for the group as a whole.
 
I think the above is a distortion of the reality of the wirehouse business. What it demonstrates, imho, is a confusion between doing business on a commission basis (which is discouraged in a number of ways, by payout, as an example) with doing the very same individual stock/bond/mutual fund business on a fee in lieu of commission basis (which is encouraged, again, by payout).
 
IOW it isn’t the process (individual account management) that’s discouraged, it’s the payment methods where there’s an obvious (and well grounded, I would add) bias.
 
If firms really didn’t want people who are interested in what’s defined above as “brokerage business” they wouldn’t spend massive sums on research (what would be the point?) they wouldn’t accommodate seasoned brokers by constructing platforms for broker-run discretionary account management and they wouldn’t have the same payout (actually it’s a tab better in most cases) for individually managed accounts done on a fee in lieu of basis as they have for SMA and other wrap platforms.
 
That’s not to say managers won’t tell new hires that it isn’t in their best interest or their clients for them to think of themselves as account managers when better trained and equipped people in the form of SMA managers and fund managers are available, when they personally lack much experience and while they’d be better off eliminating any distractions from the lifeblood of their new career, funding assets, gaining clients and opening accounts. I doubt any brokerage channel, indies included, would encourage their new hires to attempt to create a book and a career for themselves by out-of-the-box selling themselves to prospects as a “broker” as defined as above.
 
BTW, the “generally suck” line is easily disproved, if anyone would care to go that route.

troll's picture
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That's my bold and underline emphasis, btw, to attempt to highlight specifically what I’m addressing. They didn’t appear in the original post.

troll's picture
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http://forums.registeredrep.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4387&amp ;PN=1
Mikebutler222,
You might just want to go straighten this guy out!
He seems to think that he's being pushed to do only packaged managed money products.
 

troll's picture
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Whomitmayconcer wrote:
http://forums.registeredrep.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4387&amp ; ;PN=1
Mikebutler222,
You might just want to go straighten this guy out!
He seems to think that he's being pushed to do only packaged managed money products.
 

 
Nice troll...

troll's picture
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If you say so...

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