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Jones average pay: $65k?

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Aug 31, 2009 11:53 am

If you think about it, given the rarity of larger producers, most people aren’t even average - they are below average.

Aug 31, 2009 12:22 pm
LockEDJ:

Personally speaking, I’d never knock on a Sunday. But that’s just my belief in God speaking.

Good luck.

  I'm curious as to what this has to do with God.   I can certainly understand if you believe that Sunday is the sabbath and the sabbath is holy to you so you don't work or go to football games or go out to restaurants and make other people work to serve you, etc.  Otherwise, I don't get what this has to do with believing in God.  Can you explain?   I believe in God.  I don't knock on Sundays.  It isn't because of my belief in God.
Aug 31, 2009 1:21 pm

[quote=anonymous] Can you explain?

  I believe in God.  I don't knock on Sundays.  It isn't because of my belief in God.[/quote]   First - I don't mean to adopt an "attitude" about my faith and I won't respond to any further posts regarding this concept. But since you asked ...   I think the onus would be on you to explain the last three sentences. If you believe in God (and by that, I am assuming a Judeo-Christian concept), then you hold the Sabbath as holy. It is not a day for work and I do absolutely nothing regarding the financial markets on that day. Moreover, I find it offensive when other people accost me on that day as well; I would think in turn my clients/prospects would find me the same.   More than that ... all my clients accept and know my service to them is complete. They are provided with my cell and home number with the concept they abuse neither. Sunday clearly places at least one boundary. The other is the essence of need on their behalf. As an example, I took five calls while on vacation. But the client called me from his hospital bed.   Fair enough? Thanks for asking, anon. I find your posts generally very thought provoking and exactly why I come here, fwiw.
Aug 31, 2009 1:23 pm
anonymous:

[quote=LockEDJ]Personally speaking, I’d never knock on a Sunday. But that’s just my belief in God speaking.

Good luck.

  I'm curious as to what this has to do with God.   I can certainly understand if you believe that Sunday is the sabbath and the sabbath is holy to you so you don't work or go to football games or go out to restaurants and make other people work to serve you, etc.  Otherwise, I don't get what this has to do with believing in God.  Can you explain?   I believe in God.  I don't knock on Sundays.  It isn't because of my belief in God.

[/quote]

 

I hate to give you grief but actually the sabbath is Saturday. Sunday is the Lord's Day and it is celebrated because of the resurrection. Many people have the same misunderstanding of the days.

Aug 31, 2009 1:50 pm

OK Moraen, now we’re talking. This is the kind of info I was hoping for but didn’t know how to phrase the question. What’s a “large producer” in your opinion?

   
Aug 31, 2009 1:54 pm
noggin:

[quote=anonymous][quote=LockEDJ]Personally speaking, I’d never knock on a Sunday. But that’s just my belief in God speaking.

Good luck.

  I'm curious as to what this has to do with God.   I can certainly understand if you believe that Sunday is the sabbath and the sabbath is holy to you so you don't work or go to football games or go out to restaurants and make other people work to serve you, etc.  Otherwise, I don't get what this has to do with believing in God.  Can you explain?   I believe in God.  I don't knock on Sundays.  It isn't because of my belief in God.

[/quote]

I hate to give you grief but actually the sabbath is Saturday. Sunday is the Lord's Day and it is celebrated because of the resurrection. Many people have the same misunderstanding of the days.

[/quote]

I used to knock on Jewish doors on Saturday...on the days I actually went knocking.
I knew they wouldn't mind because I was talking finance...

oh, boy...this is getting ugly.
Aug 31, 2009 2:01 pm

[quote=BariSax] OK Moraen, now we’re talking. This is the kind of info I was hoping for but didn’t know how to phrase the question. What’s a “large producer” in your opinion?



[/quote]



BS - It can vary. Jones in my old region had a couple of $1 million producers. We had 11 people producing over $500k with two people in the $1 million area. I would say that someone who is producing $500k is doing pretty well at Jones. A “large producer” to me would be $600k or above. Full disclosure, I was NOT a large producer.



If you are looking for the “average” large producer, you are talking around $600 - $650k. Take home is 38.6% of that.
Aug 31, 2009 2:18 pm

OK that’s good info. Again, thanks. So I finished my survey thing yesterday…I told them I’d do 25 and I got 32. Took me four hours (likely because I did it on Saturday and Sunday when people were home).

   
Aug 31, 2009 2:23 pm

[quote=Moraen] [quote=BariSax] OK Moraen, now we’re talking. This is the kind of info I was hoping for but didn’t know how to phrase the question. What’s a “large producer” in your opinion?

 
 [/quote]

BS - It can vary. Jones in my old region had a couple of $1 million producers. We had 11 people producing over $500k with two people in the $1 million area. I would say that someone who is producing $500k is doing pretty well at Jones. A "large producer" to me would be $600k or above. Full disclosure, I was NOT a large producer.

If you are looking for the "average" large producer, you are talking around $600 - $650k. Take home is 38.6% of that.[/quote]   That take home % looks a bit short if you factor in: profit sharing (during normalized periods), LP (assuming a 600k producer has some), and Div Trips (if they take the cash)   At least from the reports I've been able to see.  
Aug 31, 2009 2:29 pm

[quote=voltmoie] [quote=Moraen] [quote=BariSax] OK Moraen, now we’re talking. This is the kind of info I was hoping for but didn’t know how to phrase the question. What’s a “large producer” in your opinion?



[/quote] BS - It can vary. Jones in my old region had a couple of $1 million producers. We had 11 people producing over $500k with two people in the $1 million area. I would say that someone who is producing $500k is doing pretty well at Jones. A “large producer” to me would be $600k or above. Full disclosure, I was NOT a large producer. If you are looking for the “average” large producer, you are talking around $600 - $650k. Take home is 38.6% of that.[/quote]



That take home % looks a bit short if you factor in: profit sharing (during normalized periods), LP (assuming a 600k producer has some), and Div Trips (if they take the cash)



At least from the reports I’ve been able to see.

[/quote]



Factor taxes as well. Also, profit sharing is deferred. You might want to factor in trimester bonuses as well as LP returns. It is likely that a $600k producer is getting LP returns (which may pay off his debt to the LP) and during normal times will get bonuses.



So, produce 600k - 231k net + 100k? in bonuses = 331k x .62 in my state = 202k = 34% of 600k.
Aug 31, 2009 2:30 pm

Barisax:

The kind of "info" you are looking to gather would be considered inside information from the perspective of the company for whom you seek to work. Edward Jones takes a (very) dim opinion of sharing information like this and appropriately so.   What you should take away from all of this is ... that we are a nationally recognized company. Therefore in order to retain our best producers we are compelled to compensate them in a manner representative to the marketplace as a whole or face market pressures to lose them. Insofar as we lose very few "large producers", you can assume we are competitive.   Therefore, the need for "data" becomes moot. Select your company based on culture and fit. Read your contract closely.   Hopefully this helps,
Alex
Aug 31, 2009 2:30 pm

Volt, you are right, but you erally shouldn’t include LP and Trips, since (1) LP is an investment, not compensation, and (2) trips cost more than you may thing (my mentor paid $7200 in taxes for a recent supertrip, plus spending while there - the trip was valued at $24,000).  So his “free” trip really cost him close to $10K out of pocket.  Would you spend $10K on a vacation?

  When talking about payout (if you are strictly comparing to indy world), you really have to consider net payout, office support (BOA, Rent, utilities, ticket charges, paid supplies, systems, etc.), profit sharing (as in 401K profit sharing), as well as profit bonus.  If you are talking net/net/net (IOW after all indy expenses), then you would not include the office support add-backs, but you would still consider the bonus/profit sharing.  And yes, there are definite tax advantages in the indy world to consider.
Aug 31, 2009 2:41 pm

[quote=B24]Volt, you are right, but you erally shouldn’t include LP and Trips, since (1) LP is an investment, not compensation, and (2) trips cost more than you may thing (my mentor paid $7200 in taxes for a recent supertrip, plus spending while there - the trip was valued at $24,000).  So his “free” trip really cost him close to $10K out of pocket.  Would you spend $10K on a vacation?

  When talking about payout (if you are strictly comparing to indy world), you really have to consider net payout, office support (BOA, Rent, utilities, ticket charges, paid supplies, systems, etc.), profit sharing (as in 401K profit sharing), as well as profit bonus.  If you are talking net/net/net (IOW after all indy expenses), then you would not include the office support add-backs, but you would still consider the bonus/profit sharing.  And yes, there are definite tax advantages in the indy world to consider.[/quote]   As you well know, B, our company includes such things as bonuses, LP and Div trips as part of the "compensation package" in recruitment efforts. They use a number considerably higher than 38.6% for large producers which to some extent is reasonable.   Barisax would be better served to consider the company for what it will bring him in the next 12 to 36 months than all the dreams of GP and div trips. If he'd prefer those sorts of fantasies, bring a quarter and a dollar to the local gas station. Buy a scratch off and dream.
Aug 31, 2009 2:42 pm

Alex,

  Very helpful. I'm surprised that info would be inside information, but clearly that just means I'm a little fuzzy on the definition. Thanks again.    
Aug 31, 2009 2:50 pm

There’s a subject “Payout at Firms” that covers this quite well; although it will probably confuse the hell out of a New FA.

I think Morean means .62 after Federal & State taxes. is that right?


LockEJ makes a good point that it is a competitive marketplace so companies strive to keep their payout competitive. If you are with a top-tier firm (Jones?) they are going to have a competitive payout.

However, you can still expect a significantly lower payout from Jones than other firms because Jones has significantly more overhead. They have 10X more home office staff than comparable firms and every office has to pay for rent and a boa (back office assistant). 

I would guess an indy has an easier time getting write-offs too?

Aug 31, 2009 2:53 pm

B24 … I’m assuming the producer takes the cash for the trips, in that case they can be considered compensation.  Being taxed on them is normal however most companys will “gross you up” so you don’t have to pay out.

  Have to disagree on the LP part.  Although it's an investment it's only one that can be had by being a Jones employee and is not open to everyone.  To me it would be an extra layer of compensation that would not be there if I was not a Jones employee.  
Aug 31, 2009 2:53 pm

p.s., Yeah the 12-36 months take home pay info would be helpful. I know, it varies.

  Free vacations and partnerships sound lovely, but I also need to budget for the next few years to make sure my student loan gets paid.    
Aug 31, 2009 2:55 pm

Barisax … here is a novel idea for you…  Go call some people in your region.  Vets and new guys.  See how they are doing.  Start making calls right… NOW! 

  Come back and report your findings in a few hours.
Aug 31, 2009 3:03 pm

[quote=voltmoie]Barisax … here is a novel idea for you…  Go call some people in your region.  Vets and new guys.  See how they are doing.  Start making calls right… NOW! 

  Come back and report your findings in a few hours.[/quote]   Barisax, do not call Financial Advisors on a Monday Morning to BS and talk turkey.  You will make a poor impression..
Aug 31, 2009 3:09 pm

[quote=BerkshireBull][quote=voltmoie]Barisax … here is a novel idea for you…  Go call some people in your region.  Vets and new guys.  See how they are doing.  Start making calls right… NOW! 

  Come back and report your findings in a few hours.[/quote]   Barisax, do not call Financial Advisors on a Monday Morning to BS and talk turkey.  You will make a poor impression..[/quote]   Then call someone a few states over and tell them your name is Mike Rotch.    Point is, do some research on your own talking to people in the trenches.