Jones average pay: $65k?

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BariSax's picture
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I am interviewing with Jones and just spent two hours today doing the pretend survey. Really, it wasn't as bad as some here would have you believe.
 
One thing I read today was a WSJ article about Jones from January. Here it is if you're so inclined http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123155200027870311.html.
 
Anyway, the sentence that jumps out at me is the one that says the average Jones salesperson earns $65,000 a year.
 
Well? Is that accurate? How much are you guys making?Thanks.

BerkshireBull's picture
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I'd believe it.  You've got the big producers at Jones like rankstocks and wind3547 making $18k+ per month and then you've got the guys just starting like still@jones and voltmoie making $4k per month.  $65k is probably a good average.  

LockEDJ's picture
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I wouldn't buy that ... not for a second. Consider that even according to the article 23% of the staff washes out in four months. So 1 in 4 recruits make ... $10K? Maybe??

If that's true, the other 75% would have to make an average of nearly $70k. Yeah ... I'm guessing the average is much closer to $50K.

BariSax's picture
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So how difficult is it to make more than $100k? How many years does it take? I came from a job (laid off and those who weren't were eating pay cuts) where I was making $55k. My goal is to do way better than that. I want to make more than $100k within the next three years. Is this reasonable as an FA in a decent-sized city (more than 300,000 people)?  Thanks for your thoughts.

SlickTuna's picture
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First year is in the mid $50s, then increase $20k every year after that - if you really are doing the work.   The WSJ article is full of incorrect quotes - as usual.

franklin21's picture
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That number is bogus for several reasons. One its cited by a journalist, they suck period. Two, it's brought down by new people like me. I bet that if you excluded FA's under two years the average compensation would be closer to $90,000. Lastly why are you considering averages? This isn't a career for average goals or ambitions. 

Ronnie Dobbs's picture
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Who cares about the average and the negative outlook on these posts. Fact is, you come into Jones working hard and busting ass, then those numbers are very achievable.  In fact, you could blow those numbers away.

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BerkshireBull wrote:
I'd believe it.  You've got the big producers at Jones like rankstocks and wind3547 making $18k+ per month and then you've got the guys just starting like still@jones and voltmoie making $4k per month.  $65k is probably a good average.  
$4k a month...I wish!!! If I was bringing in that much cake, they probably wouldn't have fired me!!!I think that $65k number came off of the "Best Places to Work" survey and it includes home office and does not include trainees. As for barisax, the truth is once you're in the program, you'll know in the first 6 months if you are destined to be making $45k/yr or $145k/yr within the next three years.

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Still@jones wrote: BerkshireBull wrote: I'd believe it.  You've got the big producers at Jones like rankstocks and wind3547 making $18k+ per month and then you've got the guys just starting like still@jones and voltmoie making $4k per month.  $65k is probably a good average.   $4k a month...I wish!!! If I was bringing in that much cake, they probably wouldn't have fired me!!!I think that $65k number came off of the "Best Places to Work" survey and it includes home office and does not include trainees. As for barisax, the truth is once you're in the program, you'll know in the first 6 months if you are destined to be making $45k/yr or $145k/yr within the next three years.
 
You should know before you start... Takes 3-4 years with a good start to build a "consistent" $100K plus practice at Jones... Now I know some that go there quicker but they couldn't sustain. Succeeding at Jones is all about number of prospects, specifically new prospects until you have $30-$40MM..

Moraen's picture
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franklin21 wrote: That number is bogus for several reasons. One its cited by a journalist, they suck period. Two, it's brought down by new people like me. I bet that if you excluded FA's under two years the average compensation would be closer to $90,000. Lastly why are you considering averages? This isn't a career for average goals or ambitions. 

Most of the guys in my old region were Seg 3, grossing at most 180k. That's approximately 70k. Then there are the guys on goals - there were plenty of them.

Remember that it is average, and you have to include the people under two years. But I know four guys that are making right at about $65k, and all four of them have been out at least eight years.

There are also the people that make $300k/yr. But they are fewer.

BariSax's picture
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Thanks for the good info. Would you mind defining for a newbie what "on goal" is?

LockEDJ's picture
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you're not cutting the numbers.

So you're given "goals" - easily substantiated hard numbers that are first simply contact points, which increase. Obviously, if you are asking for enough orders you'll make the grade.

BariSax's picture
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Again, appreciated. OK. I am going out again to do the survey thing. Yesterday, 2 hours -- 40 door knocks, 13 surveys completed. How am I doing?

LockEDJ's picture
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Personally speaking, I'd never knock on a Sunday. But that's just my belief in God speaking.

Good luck.

BariSax's picture
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Thanks again all. My face-to-face interview is next week. I will let you know if I get a job offer (I'm sure you'll all be on the edges of your seat for that...)
 
---B.S.

BerkshireBull's picture
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BariSax wrote:Thanks again all. My face-to-face interview is next week. I will let you know if I get a job offer (I'm sure you'll all be on the edges of your seat for that...)
 
---B.S.From most people's experience on here, it seems that as long as you show up the interview the job will be yours at least for the next 4 months.

voltmoie's picture
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Who cares what the average pay is?  You want to make average pay go work behind a desk.  The better question is, how much can I make a year?

BariSax's picture
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Seriously? I care about the average pay because I'm interested in data. Aren't you?
 

franklin21's picture
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BerkshireBull wrote:
BariSax wrote:Thanks again all. My face-to-face interview is next week. I will let you know if I get a job offer (I'm sure you'll all be on the edges of your seat for that...)
 
---B.S.From most people's experience on here, it seems that as long as you show up the interview the job will be yours at least for the next 4 months.untrue. That's most insurance companies.

NumbersGeek's picture
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BariSax wrote:Seriously? I care about the average pay because I'm interested in data. Aren't you?
 oh com'on, you're in control of how much or how little you make. This is a real opportunity with a real business. Its definitely not one of those MLM pyramid scams....Screw the averages unless you think you're average

Moraen's picture
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If you think about it, given the rarity of larger producers, most people aren't even average - they are below average.

anonymous's picture
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LockEDJ wrote:Personally speaking, I'd never knock on a Sunday. But that's just my belief in God speaking. Good luck.

 
I'm curious as to what this has to do with God.   I can certainly understand if you believe that Sunday is the sabbath and the sabbath is holy to you so you don't work or go to football games or go out to restaurants and make other people work to serve you, etc.  Otherwise, I don't get what this has to do with believing in God.  Can you explain?
 
I believe in God.  I don't knock on Sundays.  It isn't because of my belief in God.

LockEDJ's picture
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anonymous wrote: Can you explain?
 
I believe in God.  I don't knock on Sundays.  It isn't because of my belief in God.
 
First - I don't mean to adopt an "attitude" about my faith and I won't respond to any further posts regarding this concept. But since you asked ...
 
I think the onus would be on you to explain the last three sentences. If you believe in God (and by that, I am assuming a Judeo-Christian concept), then you hold the Sabbath as holy. It is not a day for work and I do absolutely nothing regarding the financial markets on that day. Moreover, I find it offensive when other people accost me on that day as well; I would think in turn my clients/prospects would find me the same.
 
More than that ... all my clients accept and know my service to them is complete. They are provided with my cell and home number with the concept they abuse neither. Sunday clearly places at least one boundary. The other is the essence of need on their behalf. As an example, I took five calls while on vacation. But the client called me from his hospital bed.
 
Fair enough? Thanks for asking, anon. I find your posts generally very thought provoking and exactly why I come here, fwiw.

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anonymous wrote:LockEDJ wrote:Personally speaking, I'd never knock on a Sunday. But that's just my belief in God speaking. Good luck.

 
I'm curious as to what this has to do with God.   I can certainly understand if you believe that Sunday is the sabbath and the sabbath is holy to you so you don't work or go to football games or go out to restaurants and make other people work to serve you, etc.  Otherwise, I don't get what this has to do with believing in God.  Can you explain?
 
I believe in God.  I don't knock on Sundays.  It isn't because of my belief in God.

 
I hate to give you grief but actually the sabbath is Saturday. Sunday is the Lord's Day and it is celebrated because of the resurrection. Many people have the same misunderstanding of the days.

BariSax's picture
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OK Moraen, now we're talking. This is the kind of info I was hoping for but didn't know how to phrase the question. What's a "large producer" in your opinion?
 
 

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noggin wrote:anonymous wrote:LockEDJ wrote:Personally speaking, I'd never knock on a Sunday. But that's just my belief in God speaking. Good luck.

 
I'm curious as to what this has to do with God.   I can certainly understand if you believe that Sunday is the sabbath and the sabbath is holy to you so you don't work or go to football games or go out to restaurants and make other people work to serve you, etc.  Otherwise, I don't get what this has to do with believing in God.  Can you explain?
 
I believe in God.  I don't knock on Sundays.  It isn't because of my belief in God.

I hate to give you grief but actually the sabbath is Saturday. Sunday is the Lord's Day and it is celebrated because of the resurrection. Many people have the same misunderstanding of the days.I used to knock on Jewish doors on Saturday...on the days I actually went knocking. I knew they wouldn't mind because I was talking finance...oh, boy...this is getting ugly.

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BariSax wrote: OK Moraen, now we're talking. This is the kind of info I was hoping for but didn't know how to phrase the question. What's a "large producer" in your opinion?
 
 

BS - It can vary. Jones in my old region had a couple of $1 million producers. We had 11 people producing over $500k with two people in the $1 million area. I would say that someone who is producing $500k is doing pretty well at Jones. A "large producer" to me would be $600k or above. Full disclosure, I was NOT a large producer.

If you are looking for the "average" large producer, you are talking around $600 - $650k. Take home is 38.6% of that.

BariSax's picture
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OK that's good info. Again, thanks. So I finished my survey thing yesterday...I told them I'd do 25 and I got 32. Took me four hours (likely because I did it on Saturday and Sunday when people were home).
 
 

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Moraen wrote: BariSax wrote: OK Moraen, now we're talking. This is the kind of info I was hoping for but didn't know how to phrase the question. What's a "large producer" in your opinion?
 
  BS - It can vary. Jones in my old region had a couple of $1 million producers. We had 11 people producing over $500k with two people in the $1 million area. I would say that someone who is producing $500k is doing pretty well at Jones. A "large producer" to me would be $600k or above. Full disclosure, I was NOT a large producer. If you are looking for the "average" large producer, you are talking around $600 - $650k. Take home is 38.6% of that.
 
That take home % looks a bit short if you factor in: profit sharing (during normalized periods), LP (assuming a 600k producer has some), and Div Trips (if they take the cash)
 
At least from the reports I've been able to see.
 

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voltmoie wrote: Moraen wrote: BariSax wrote: OK Moraen, now we're talking. This is the kind of info I was hoping for but didn't know how to phrase the question. What's a "large producer" in your opinion?
 
  BS - It can vary. Jones in my old region had a couple of $1 million producers. We had 11 people producing over $500k with two people in the $1 million area. I would say that someone who is producing $500k is doing pretty well at Jones. A "large producer" to me would be $600k or above. Full disclosure, I was NOT a large producer. If you are looking for the "average" large producer, you are talking around $600 - $650k. Take home is 38.6% of that.
 
That take home % looks a bit short if you factor in: profit sharing (during normalized periods), LP (assuming a 600k producer has some), and Div Trips (if they take the cash)
 
At least from the reports I've been able to see.
 

Factor taxes as well. Also, profit sharing is deferred. You might want to factor in trimester bonuses as well as LP returns. It is likely that a $600k producer is getting LP returns (which may pay off his debt to the LP) and during normal times will get bonuses.

So, produce 600k - 231k net + 100k? in bonuses = 331k x .62 in my state = 202k = 34% of 600k.

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Barisax:
The kind of "info" you are looking to gather would be considered inside information from the perspective of the company for whom you seek to work. Edward Jones takes a (very) dim opinion of sharing information like this and appropriately so.
 
What you should take away from all of this is ... that we are a nationally recognized company. Therefore in order to retain our best producers we are compelled to compensate them in a manner representative to the marketplace as a whole or face market pressures to lose them. Insofar as we lose very few "large producers", you can assume we are competitive.
 
Therefore, the need for "data" becomes moot. Select your company based on culture and fit. Read your contract closely.
 
Hopefully this helps,Alex

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Volt, you are right, but you erally shouldn't include LP and Trips, since (1) LP is an investment, not compensation, and (2) trips cost more than you may thing (my mentor paid $7200 in taxes for a recent supertrip, plus spending while there - the trip was valued at $24,000).  So his "free" trip really cost him close to $10K out of pocket.  Would you spend $10K on a vacation?
 
When talking about payout (if you are strictly comparing to indy world), you really have to consider net payout, office support (BOA, Rent, utilities, ticket charges, paid supplies, systems, etc.), profit sharing (as in 401K profit sharing), as well as profit bonus.  If you are talking net/net/net (IOW after all indy expenses), then you would not include the office support add-backs, but you would still consider the bonus/profit sharing.  And yes, there are definite tax advantages in the indy world to consider.

LockEDJ's picture
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B24 wrote:Volt, you are right, but you erally shouldn't include LP and Trips, since (1) LP is an investment, not compensation, and (2) trips cost more than you may thing (my mentor paid $7200 in taxes for a recent supertrip, plus spending while there - the trip was valued at $24,000).  So his "free" trip really cost him close to $10K out of pocket.  Would you spend $10K on a vacation?
 
When talking about payout (if you are strictly comparing to indy world), you really have to consider net payout, office support (BOA, Rent, utilities, ticket charges, paid supplies, systems, etc.), profit sharing (as in 401K profit sharing), as well as profit bonus.  If you are talking net/net/net (IOW after all indy expenses), then you would not include the office support add-backs, but you would still consider the bonus/profit sharing.  And yes, there are definite tax advantages in the indy world to consider.
 
As you well know, B, our company includes such things as bonuses, LP and Div trips as part of the "compensation package" in recruitment efforts. They use a number considerably higher than 38.6% for large producers which to some extent is reasonable.
 
Barisax would be better served to consider the company for what it will bring him in the next 12 to 36 months than all the dreams of GP and div trips. If he'd prefer those sorts of fantasies, bring a quarter and a dollar to the local gas station. Buy a scratch off and dream.

BariSax's picture
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Alex,
 
Very helpful. I'm surprised that info would be inside information, but clearly that just means I'm a little fuzzy on the definition. Thanks again.
 
 

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There's a subject "Payout at Firms" that covers this quite well; although it will probably confuse the hell out of a New FA. I think Morean means .62 after Federal & State taxes. is that right?
LockEJ makes a good point that it is a competitive marketplace so companies strive to keep their payout competitive. If you are with a top-tier firm (Jones?) they are going to have a competitive payout. However, you can still expect a significantly lower payout from Jones than other firms because Jones has significantly more overhead. They have 10X more home office staff than comparable firms and every office has to pay for rent and a boa (back office assistant).  I would guess an indy has an easier time getting write-offs too?

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B24 .. I'm assuming the producer takes the cash for the trips, in that case they can be considered compensation.  Being taxed on them is normal however most companys will "gross you up" so you don't have to pay out.
 
Have to disagree on the LP part.  Although it's an investment it's only one that can be had by being a Jones employee and is not open to everyone.  To me it would be an extra layer of compensation that would not be there if I was not a Jones employee.
 

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p.s., Yeah the 12-36 months take home pay info would be helpful. I know, it varies.
 
Free vacations and partnerships sound lovely, but I also need to budget for the next few years to make sure my student loan gets paid.
 
 

voltmoie's picture
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Barisax .. here is a novel idea for you...  Go call some people in your region.  Vets and new guys.  See how they are doing.  Start making calls right.............. NOW! 
 
Come back and report your findings in a few hours.

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voltmoie wrote:Barisax .. here is a novel idea for you...  Go call some people in your region.  Vets and new guys.  See how they are doing.  Start making calls right.............. NOW! 
 
Come back and report your findings in a few hours.

 
Barisax, do not call Financial Advisors on a Monday Morning to BS and talk turkey.  You will make a poor impression..

voltmoie's picture
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BerkshireBull wrote:voltmoie wrote:Barisax .. here is a novel idea for you...  Go call some people in your region.  Vets and new guys.  See how they are doing.  Start making calls right.............. NOW! 
 
Come back and report your findings in a few hours.

 
Barisax, do not call Financial Advisors on a Monday Morning to BS and talk turkey.  You will make a poor impression..
 
Then call someone a few states over and tell them your name is Mike Rotch. 
 
Point is, do some research on your own talking to people in the trenches.

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Then call someone a few states over and tell them your name is PJ Swindell. 
 
Point is, do some research on your own talking to people in the trenches.

Low blow.

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voltmoie wrote:B24 .. I'm assuming the producer takes the cash for the trips, in that case they can be considered compensation.  Being taxed on them is normal however most companys will "gross you up" so you don't have to pay out.
 
Have to disagree on the LP part.  Although it's an investment it's only one that can be had by being a Jones employee and is not open to everyone.  To me it would be an extra layer of compensation that would not be there if I was not a Jones employee.
 
 
If you take the cash, it's like 2K per trip.  If you are producing 300K, that amounts to 1.3% in additional net (for two trips).  Something, but not much. 
 
As far as LP, I will agree that the 20% average returns over the past 30 years is tough to compete with, but after taxes, it's more like 12-15% (the returns are 100% taxable as income).  For higher producers, it's even worse.  Where it is fantastic is if you accumulate a lot, and then use it as income in retirement.  But it's a small % of people where this is the case (long-term advisor, produced a lot, acquired a lot of LP, and retired with the company).  There is nothing wrong with that, you just have to have a very long-term perspective.

voltmoie's picture
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I agree, that was a low blow.  I'm just mad no one is picking up the damn phone today.  My appologies.

fa09's picture
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I would take the trip anyway. The cash payout sucks and if you qualify for the trip then you should be making more than enough to be comfortable after taxes and you get to enjoy some sweet trips from what I hear. More than 50k net in 6 months would do me just fine (if you dont factor in the sliding scale given to new fas the first 3 years to meet trips eligibility)

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If the only research I was doing was asking a bunch of anonymous people on a message board then I would probably make a lousy salesman.

voltmoie's picture
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Ok my son, what have you learned from your other efforts?

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BariSax wrote:If the only research I was doing was asking a bunch of anonymous people on a message board then I would probably make a lousy salesman. Although, there's a better chance of getting the truth here than in person or over the phone. And everything posted here is subject to the scrutiny of about 20 other people who know as much....Can you imagine if he called Windy to ask what he made his first year?Hey Look!!! I'm a Senior Member!!!

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Still@jones wrote: BariSax wrote:If the only research I was doing was asking a bunch of anonymous people on a message board then I would probably make a lousy salesman. Although, there's a better chance of getting the truth here than in person or over the phone. And everything posted here is subject to the scrutiny of about 20 other people who know as much....Can you imagine if he called Windy to ask what he made his first year?Hey Look!!! I'm a Senior Member!!!

 
Did Wind / Ronnie Dobbs get his own office yet?

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BerkshireBull wrote:Still@jones wrote: BariSax wrote:If the only research I was doing was asking a bunch of anonymous people on a message board then I would probably make a lousy salesman. Although, there's a better chance of getting the truth here than in person or over the phone. And everything posted here is subject to the scrutiny of about 20 other people who know as much....Can you imagine if he called Windy to ask what he made his first year?Hey Look!!! I'm a Senior Member!!!

 
Did Wind / Ronnie Dobbs get his own office yet?
 
According to RONNIE he got an existing office and all the existing clients HATED the old FA. Please note nothing was given to windy.  He earned it all.  He made sure his RL knew his numbers every two weeks and that he was posting better numbers than most Seg. 3s.  That's why he now has an office. 

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Volt, You're just pissed cause I whooped you ass on the 30 Day War!

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voltmoie wrote:BerkshireBull wrote:Still@jones wrote: BariSax wrote:If the only research I was doing was asking a bunch of anonymous people on a message board then I would probably make a lousy salesman. Although, there's a better chance of getting the truth here than in person or over the phone. And everything posted here is subject to the scrutiny of about 20 other people who know as much....Can you imagine if he called Windy to ask what he made his first year?Hey Look!!! I'm a Senior Member!!!

 
Did Wind / Ronnie Dobbs get his own office yet?
 
According to RONNIE he got an existing office and all the existing clients HATED the old FA. Please note nothing was given to windy.  He earned it all.  He made sure his RL knew his numbers every two weeks and that he was posting better numbers than most Seg. 3s.  That's why he now has an office. 

 
Aren't Ronnie Dobbs & wind3547 one and the same?  Also can't you see his production numbers to confirm them?  At my firm they post everyone's numbers and what achievement level they're running at.

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