EDJ vs NYL

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norcalstoppy's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-11

I'm currently in the training program with EDJ, but a friend of mine who works at New York Life is trying to get me come over.

I know it's 2 entirely different game plan and similar, but different products to sell. What do you experienced guys think of each options? If it was you, which would you choose to start your career with and why?
 
I really appreciate your comments and your help.
 
Thanks.

deekay's picture
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Joined: 2007-05-15

I'd start with NYL as long as there was a strong local agency.  You have a much wider group of potential clients to work with.  EDJ requires someone to have money to invest in order to be profitable.  And, I'm guessing here, but there won't be an investment at EDJ that you can't do at NYL.  But you are forced to put insurance through the grid ad EDJ, which wouldn't happen at NYL. 

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

No salary option at NYL.

rankstocks's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-10

Get ready to sell only Mainstay funds on the mutual fund side. 

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Be ready to NOT do any fee-based business until you're a ChFC and CLU, OR MSFS OR CFP in addition to state required licenses.

deekay's picture
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rankstocks wrote:Get ready to sell only Mainstay funds on the mutual fund side. 
 
You do realize NYL is a life insurance company, right?  They won't give a rat's ass if he sells Mainstay, American, Putnam, Rankstocks Crappy Mutual Fund, whatever.  He'll sell life insurance first.  He'll have time to worry about which large-cap growth fund has the best 5 year alpha or whatever you want to say is worthwhile about an investment.

henryhill's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-23

The NY Life guys in my town are series 6 only.  That means no individual stocks or bonds at NYL.  In deciding which to pick, do you want to be a financial advisor or a life insurance salesman who dabbles in variable annuities?

deekay's picture
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henryhill wrote:
The NY Life guys in my town are series 6 only.  That means no individual stocks or bonds at NYL.  In deciding which to pick, do you want to be a financial advisor or a life insurance salesman who dabbles in variable annuities?

 
How do you know that all the NYL guys in your town are S6 only?  Did you personally inspect each of their credentials before making that blanket statement?
 
Since when does having the 7 make someone a "financial advisor"?  From my experience, most EDJ guys (and, frankly, most wirehouse guys) are investment peddlers posing as Financial Advisors.  They don't know dick about protection, the need for liquid savings, and decide the only other solution is to jam someone in the fund/SMA/stock/bond du jour.  "Max out that 401k!  Buy cheap term and invest the difference!  Pfffft, you don't need that VA - it's too expensive!!!  You can get by with that group DI coverage at work - individual coverage is too expensive!!!  Here are some colorful graphs and charts I printed for you.  Follow this plan, and you'll be financially successful."
 
I clean up the mistakes you "Financial Advisors" make.

henryhill's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-23

There are only two of them.  I actually did check them.  Have a nice day.

deekay's picture
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henryhill wrote:There are only two of them.  I actually did check them.  Have a nice day.
 
Working in a real bustling metropolis there, eh Henry?

henryhill's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-23

I'm a big fish in a small pond.  Typical EDJ town.  Population under 10k

IndySouth's picture
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deekay wrote:henryhill wrote:
The NY Life guys in my town are series 6 only.  That means no individual stocks or bonds at NYL.  In deciding which to pick, do you want to be a financial advisor or a life insurance salesman who dabbles in variable annuities?

 
How do you know that all the NYL guys in your town are S6 only?  Did you personally inspect each of their credentials before making that blanket statement?
 
Since when does having the 7 make someone a "financial advisor"?  From my experience, most EDJ guys (and, frankly, most wirehouse guys) are investment peddlers posing as Financial Advisors.  They don't know dick about protection, the need for liquid savings, and decide the only other solution is to jam someone in the fund/SMA/stock/bond du jour.  "Max out that 401k!  Buy cheap term and invest the difference!  Pfffft, you don't need that VA - it's too expensive!!!  You can get by with that group DI coverage at work - individual coverage is too expensive!!!  Here are some colorful graphs and charts I printed for you.  Follow this plan, and you'll be financially successful."
 
I clean up the mistakes you "Financial Advisors" make.
 
How do you clean up those mistakes?

deekay's picture
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Joined: 2007-05-15

If you are a potential client, please call my office.  PM me your phone numer and I will call to set an appointment.  If you are a rep/advisor/agent, you should know that every situation is different, and no two mistakes are alike. 

someonewouldntexpect's picture
Joined: 2008-10-25

Be ready to pay NYL something instead of getting paid to go through training. 

deekay's picture
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henryhill wrote:I'm a big fish in a small pond.  Typical EDJ town.  Population under 10k
 
Then why are you worrying about some little ol' S6 reps?  I'm guessing they've been eating your lunch.

GlengarryGlenRoss's picture
Joined: 2008-10-27

NL will make you sell only insurance.  Later, much later they may let you start getting other licenses and do financial planning.  

rankstocks's picture
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deekay,
    It's obvious you are new to the industry, or simply ignorant.  NYL owns Mainstay.  That's why if you ever transfered a NYL brokerage account, or ran into a NYL variable annuity, that is all you will find.  I'm trying to figure out why you would suggest they sell other funds, other than you must not have done enough prospecting to ever run across a NYL account, or simply are too new to the business to know proprietary products when you see them.

deekay's picture
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rankstocks wrote:deekay,
    It's obvious you are new to the industry, or simply ignorant.  NYL owns Mainstay.  That's why if you ever transfered a NYL brokerage account, or ran into a NYL variable annuity, that is all you will find.  I'm trying to figure out why you would suggest they sell other funds, other than you must not have done enough prospecting to ever run across a NYL account, or simply are too new to the business to know proprietary products when you see them.
 
I know folks who are with NYL.  On the investment side, these folks sell more than Mainstay.  On the life insurance side, they sell NYL.  And why not?  NYL is a great company.  I'm not overly familiar with their VA, but part of selecting a VA is the strength of the underlying company.  There aren't many companies that can compete on financial strength.
 
All I know is that you know one thing:  Edward D. Jones & Co.  You have no other perspective.  That's ok - when reps like you poke their nose into cases I'm working on, it's not hard to convince a client to continue to work with me.  You deal with predictions, guesses, and potential.  My clients want protection, promises, and guarantees.  And at the end of the day, the fear of loss outweighs the potential for gain.
 
Simply put:  I own you.

someonewouldntexpect's picture
Joined: 2008-10-25

Different strokes, different folks and all that.

deekay's picture
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No, that's not true at all.  We have our clients invest as well.  We realize that you need assets to protect in order to have the insurance in place!  Unfortunately, so many of my colleagues in this business get it backwards.  What's the point in building an estate if it can be taken away in a heartbeat by death, taxes, disability, lawsuit, etc?  I take the approach of, let's build the foundation before we worry about what color the walls are going to be.
 
Some of my larger investment cases came from doing proper protection planning.  That's the beauty of where I'm at - the assets just seem to follow ("Hey, you're doing all this asset protection for us, why not manage our money too?").  The wirehouse guys (fortunately for me) can't/won't put themselves in the same position.

IndySouth's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-08

I think a lot of people in both wirehouses and insurance companies suffer from "propriatoritis." "our companies product/service/insurance/ball-point pens are the best because when I was trained that's all I was ever told about. Everything else is crap because all of my company's in-house research department tells me so. Etc., etc., etc.." The fact is we are all just storefronts to the financial/insurance market. If you are limited to a few products then guess what? Your clients are limited too. I'm not saying my backoffice is the best on the planet (LPL) but they don't push crap on me just because they have some deal and if they started to, I'd go and get a new backoffice. They present the information and allow me and the client decide what is best for their entire plan (investments, insurance). NYL is a good insurance company. Would I use it for everyone? Probably not. Mainstay funds? Sorry, there are better products out there.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

deekay,
 
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.  That's okay.  We help people retire based on promises, protection and guarantees for pennies on the dollar.  They are stuck with the dollar for dollar concept and to make it grow each and every year.  I like leveraging those guarantees for a better lifestyle!  (And in THIS market, who wouldn't?)
 
Rankstocks,
 
You've never INTERVIEWED at NYL, right?  I have.  I could sell any major mutual fund company's products at NYL.  They are more stringent during your first 3 years in the types of INSURANCE you can sell (only NYL) but investments are all available.  American Funds, Franklin, Hartford... you name it, it's available.
 
Guess what?  Mass owns Oppenheimer.  Not a bad fund company, but they're not my favorite.  Do you think every Mass producer only sells Oppenheimer?  C'mon.

Incredible Hulk's picture
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Joined: 2006-03-24

Ominous wrote: deekay,
 
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.  That's okay.  We help people retire based on promises, protection and guarantees for pennies on the dollar.  They are stuck with the dollar for dollar concept and to make it grow each and every year.  I like leveraging those guarantees for a better lifestyle!  (And in THIS market, who wouldn't?)

This is precisely the wrong time, IMHO, to pay for the "benefits" of your guarantees. Summer 2007 it may have made sense.
 
Rankstocks,
 
You've never INTERVIEWED at NYL, right?  I have.  I could sell any major mutual fund company's products at NYL.  They are more stringent during your first 3 years in the types of INSURANCE you can sell (only NYL) but investments are all available.  American Funds, Franklin, Hartford... you name it, it's available.
 
Guess what?  Mass owns Oppenheimer.  Not a bad fund company, but they're not my favorite.  Do you think every Mass producer only sells Oppenheimer?  C'mon.

I believe you mean "mutual fund options that NYL has a dealer agreement with" - not ALL INVESTMENTS. How about Riversource funds? How about GMAC bonds? How about BAC @ $50? - 3 of the highest performing investments you can't sell with a 6 at NYL...

Hank Moody's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-10

Ominous wrote:deekay,
 
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.  That's okay.  We help people retire based on promises, protection and guarantees for pennies on the dollar.  They are stuck with the dollar for dollar concept and to make it grow each and every year.  I like leveraging those guarantees for a better lifestyle!  (And in THIS market, who wouldn't?)
 
Rankstocks,
 
You've never INTERVIEWED at NYL, right?  I have.  I could sell any major mutual fund company's products at NYL.  They are more stringent during your first 3 years in the types of INSURANCE you can sell (only NYL) but investments are all available.  American Funds, Franklin, Hartford... you name it, it's available.
 
Guess what?  Mass owns Oppenheimer.  Not a bad fund company, but they're not my favorite.  Do you think every Mass producer only sells Oppenheimer?  C'mon.Hello, Mr. Blaine.

Hank Moody's picture
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iceco1d wrote:Who's Mr. Blaine? 
 
 He's the lunatic that runs topgunproducers.com

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Hello Tom.

Hank Moody's picture
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Ominous wrote:Hello Tom.Good to see you, Brent.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Still outing people huh?

It's nice to know that some things never change.

Hank Moody's picture
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skippy wrote:Still outing people huh?

It's nice to know that some things never change.Hello, David.

anonymous's picture
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rankstocks wrote:deekay,
    It's obvious you are new to the industry, or simply ignorant.  NYL owns Mainstay.  That's why if you ever transfered a NYL brokerage account, or ran into a NYL variable annuity, that is all you will find.  I'm trying to figure out why you would suggest they sell other funds, other than you must not have done enough prospecting to ever run across a NYL account, or simply are too new to the business to know proprietary products when you see them.
 
He's suggesting it because they do.  He's right.  You're wrong.

anonymous's picture
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GlengarryGlenRoss wrote:NL will make you sell only insurance.  Later, much later they may let you start getting other licenses and do financial planning.  
 
I think that this is a pretty smart move on their part. 

anonymous's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-29

"This is precisely the wrong time, IMHO, to pay for the "benefits" of your guarantees. Summer 2007 it may have made sense."
 
2007 was a good year to buy life insurance and now it doesn't make sense?  People are going to stop dying? 

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