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Sep 30, 2009 6:08 pm

that is a funny link…is that really where EJ people go to vacation?

Oct 2, 2009 3:33 am
KELLWOZ1:

that is a funny link…is that really where EJ people go to vacation?

  I enjoyed Italy in March. Nice 5 star resort. Where did your firm send you? 
Oct 2, 2009 4:59 am

They didn’t but with double the payout you are getting(not to mention the enormous tax bill you are getting on that) I could. Plus hanging out with Jones people isn’t all that fun(have had experience)

Oct 2, 2009 5:50 am

isn’t there a trip this week to cairo…

Oct 2, 2009 1:30 pm
Squash1:

They didn’t but with double the payout you are getting(not to mention the enormous tax bill you are getting on that) I could. Plus hanging out with Jones people isn’t all that fun(have had experience)

  Double payout BEFORE expenses.
Oct 2, 2009 2:14 pm
Squash1:

They didn’t but with double the payout you are getting(not to mention the enormous tax bill you are getting on that) I could. Plus hanging out with Jones people isn’t all that fun(have had experience)

  That's a really tired, and not very well thought out comeback Squash.  "Enormous" tax bill is about $1500.  There's a trip to Rome this contest period that the room alone is over 300 euros a night.  Now throw in the airfare for two, breakfast every morning (optional, but free), two dinners (optional, but free), 4 dine arounds (Jones just hands you money and says go get dinner), plus the tour guide for the half day tour (also optional, but there for the taking) and you're way past $1500. Not to mention the fact that you have to do zero research on your own other than open the book and pick a trip.  Expedia can book the same hotel and fly you over there for about $4300.   Whether you have a better payout or not, the fact is that Jones people who are winning those trips can travel at a far lower cost than almost anyone else.      My wife and I visited Italy on our first trip.  It would have been incredibly easy to not interact with the other Jones people at all if we would have wanted it that way.  I like Jones people in general, so it wasn't a goal of mine.  I met a lady on the flight over who we kept running into.  One day she invited my wife and I to join her for lunch.  I got to spend some quality time picking the brain of a $2 million producer over pasta in a random little restaurant.  As a new FA at the time, it was an incredible experience.  The trip, the people, the stuff Maritz put together...incredible.      You can't tell me that you can't get away from the other Jones folks in places like Rome, Sydney, or New York.  The only meeting that's required is the business meeting for the FAs.  Other than that, you can be on your own.    I figure I've got about 20-25 more years left with Jones.  Figure two trips a year, that's 40-50 vacations to places like Bali, Dubai, Costa Rica, New Zealand, Tahiti, or pretty much anywhere else you can think of that I'll get to experience.  Using today's dollars, I'll spend about $75K to do it.  Not a bad way to spend your career. 
Oct 2, 2009 2:33 pm
Spaceman Spiff:

[quote=Squash1]They didn’t but with double the payout you are getting(not to mention the enormous tax bill you are getting on that) I could. Plus hanging out with Jones people isn’t all that fun(have had experience)



That’s a really tired, and not very well thought out comeback Squash. “Enormous” tax bill is about $1500. There’s a trip to Rome this contest period that the room alone is over 300 euros a night. Now throw in the airfare for two, breakfast every morning (optional, but free), two dinners (optional, but free), 4 dine arounds (Jones just hands you money and says go get dinner), plus the tour guide for the half day tour (also optional, but there for the taking) and you’re way past $1500. Not to mention the fact that you have to do zero research on your own other than open the book and pick a trip. Expedia can book the same hotel and fly you over there for about $4300. Whether you have a better payout or not, the fact is that Jones people who are winning those trips can travel at a far lower cost than almost anyone else.



My wife and I visited Italy on our first trip. It would have been incredibly easy to not interact with the other Jones people at all if we would have wanted it that way. I like Jones people in general, so it wasn’t a goal of mine. I met a lady on the flight over who we kept running into. One day she invited my wife and I to join her for lunch. I got to spend some quality time picking the brain of a $2 million producer over pasta in a random little restaurant. As a new FA at the time, it was an incredible experience. The trip, the people, the stuff Maritz put together…incredible.



You can’t tell me that you can’t get away from the other Jones folks in places like Rome, Sydney, or New York. The only meeting that’s required is the business meeting for the FAs. Other than that, you can be on your own.



I figure I’ve got about 20-25 more years left with Jones. Figure two trips a year, that’s 40-50 vacations to places like Bali, Dubai, Costa Rica, New Zealand, Tahiti, or pretty much anywhere else you can think of that I’ll get to experience. Using today’s dollars, I’ll spend about $75K to do it. Not a bad way to spend your career. [/quote]



There should be NO required business meetings.



Vacation isn’t “What’s working for you?” or picking the brain of a $2 million producer. That’s called WORK.



I went to Austrailia. Spent $3700 for 17 day trip. 5 were in Sydney, 12 in Cairns. That also includes a $250 dinner bill at the Sydney Opera House.
Oct 2, 2009 2:41 pm
Moraen:


There should be NO required business meetings.

Vacation isn’t “What’s working for you?” or picking the brain of a $2 million producer. That’s called WORK.

I went to Austrailia. Spent $3700 for 17 day trip. 5 were in Sydney, 12 in Cairns. That also includes a $250 dinner bill at the Sydney Opera House.

  People can define vacation any way they choose - one night of picking the brain of a star producer does not seem like too much.   .... If you only spent $3700 on that trip you must have flow for free.  Been to Austrailia about 4 times and it's not cheap to get there and I won't even go into the price of food.  Gotta love the people though, even if the females are not that hot.
Oct 2, 2009 2:58 pm
voltmoie:

[quote=Moraen] There should be NO required business meetings. Vacation isn’t “What’s working for you?” or picking the brain of a $2 million producer. That’s called WORK. I went to Austrailia. Spent $3700 for 17 day trip. 5 were in Sydney, 12 in Cairns. That also includes a $250 dinner bill at the Sydney Opera House.



People can define vacation any way they choose - one night of picking the brain of a star producer does not seem like too much.



… If you only spent $3700 on that trip you must have flow for free. Been to Austrailia about 4 times and it’s not cheap to get there and I won’t even go into the price of food. Gotta love the people though, even if the females are not that hot.[/quote]



Depends on where you are flying from. March '05, got the ticket for $750. I even paid for my brother’s. Called airlines directly and negotiated. Stayed in a resort apartment in Cairns for $60 a day (AUS), plus groceries. Three swimming pools, etc. Rented a car too. Also cheap.



I don’t know what part of Austrailia you were in, but the food was only expensive in Sydney. Cairns was very inexpensive. And the women were hot in Cairns.



You are right about vacation being different for different people. I know that a vacation for me is not having people ask me “what’s working for you?” and having to sit through a meeting with Jonesies.



But that’s just me.
Oct 2, 2009 3:18 pm

Flights are a bit more expensive now and I fly from the east coast.  Good on you mate for that deal.

  (my last tickets were $1350 each - just looked them up)    Madrid, oh Mardrid ... all I can say is spain is hottie central.
Oct 2, 2009 4:42 pm

How many times in your career, especially as a new advisor, do you have the opportunity to just have lunch with a $2 million producer?  No appointments coming in, no phones ringing, no schedules to keep.  Just you, the big guy (girl in this case), and the pasta.  Time well spent in my opinion.

  You obviously got a good deal on your trip down under.  But, for about the same price per day, the average Jones FA didn't have to call the airline company, the car rental company, the opera house, the condo people, etc to get all of that arranged and paid for.  Instead, he clicked a button on his desktop and waited for further instructions.  All he had to do was pack.  And I'd bet that your $60 a night apartment wasn't as nice as the 5 star hotel that the Jones guy would have been in.  It was probably sufficient, but not "pamper your spouse because she puts up with a lot of crap while you're working to run your business" nice.  I'll be there was no "Heavenly Bed" in that apartment.  You didn't have breakfast waiting for your family, no money in an envelope handed to you for dinners out on the town.  I'm sure your vacation was great.  Do you do that twice a year?     
Oct 2, 2009 5:48 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff] How many times in your career, especially as a new advisor, do you have the opportunity to just have lunch with a $2 million producer? No appointments coming in, no phones ringing, no schedules to keep. Just you, the big guy (girl in this case), and the pasta. Time well spent in my opinion.



You obviously got a good deal on your trip down under. But, for about the same price per day, the average Jones FA didn’t have to call the airline company, the car rental company, the opera house, the condo people, etc to get all of that arranged and paid for. Instead, he clicked a button on his desktop and waited for further instructions. All he had to do was pack. And I’d bet that your $60 a night apartment wasn’t as nice as the 5 star hotel that the Jones guy would have been in. It was probably sufficient, but not “pamper your spouse because she puts up with a lot of crap while you’re working to run your business” nice. I’ll be there was no “Heavenly Bed” in that apartment. You didn’t have breakfast waiting for your family, no money in an envelope handed to you for dinners out on the town. I’m sure your vacation was great. Do you do that twice a year?    

[/quote]



Spiff you have no idea. That apartment had two bedrooms with king-sized beds, a porch that looked out over the river leading out the Reef, a golf course (if you play golf), tennis courts and three swimming pools, two with a swim up bar.



A little effort goes a long way. I also didn’t have to go to a dinner, I was gone for a lot longer than you ever will be on a div trip (unless you extend it yourself), didn’t have to see other Jonesies.



My wife and I go somewhere every quarter. Last year we went to Greece for two weeks. Not only that, we spent a day in Paris, two days in Germany, a few in the countryside around Northern Greece, four in Santorini. The year before that we climbed a mountain in the Alps and spent a few days driving through Italy. The same year as the Greece trip, we also spent a week in the Caymans scuba diving.



This year we went to Vegas and Tahiti. In addition, because my wife is involved in the business - these are Executive team building trips. Business pays for it. So while you get taxed on your trips - we expense ours.



Talk about saving money!
Oct 2, 2009 6:04 pm

Sounds like a great deal.  Executive team building trips.  Umm…OK.  You’re CPA signs off on that does he?  But then GAAP is filled with all kinds of grey areas. 

  You apartment in Australia sounds like a lot of the timeshare places I've been here in the states.  Minus the swim up bars.  Heck, you can go to Branson, MO and get a two bedroom apartment with king beds, golf course view, jacuzzi tub, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc.        I'm not trying to downplay your vacations.  I'm trying to get the other folks who read this stuff to see that the Jones trips aren't the bad, worthless, expensive trips that a lot of you try to make them appear to be.  Anyone who travels a lot learns how to get good deals on travel.  You obviously travel enough to have learned some tricks.       
Oct 2, 2009 6:05 pm

Now Morean, we know you’re full of it.  Jones has the market cornered when it comes to trips.  Your trip(s) sound nice, but golly, you had to pay for them.  I mean, how could you have afforded those trips with the ALL the expenses being Indy.  I mean, cmon, phone, utilities, TP, rent, ticket charges…in my calculations, you would have to be paid 150% of production just to meet Jones’ 36%.  If I were you, and I’m not thank God, I would close shop and head over to the local Jones branch (if that one is closed) try another one, and ask to be their BOA.  

  You will never know what it is like to stay at a 5 star resort...never never never.  Jones has all of them, even some made up ones. 
Oct 2, 2009 6:16 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff] Sounds like a great deal. Executive team building trips. Umm…OK. You’re CPA signs off on that does he? But then GAAP is filled with all kinds of grey areas.



You apartment in Australia sounds like a lot of the timeshare places I’ve been here in the states. Minus the swim up bars. Heck, you can go to Branson, MO and get a two bedroom apartment with king beds, golf course view, jacuzzi tub, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc.      



I’m not trying to downplay your vacations. I’m trying to get the other folks who read this stuff to see that the Jones trips aren’t the bad, worthless, expensive trips that a lot of you try to make them appear to be. Anyone who travels a lot learns how to get good deals on travel. You obviously travel enough to have learned some tricks.



[/quote]



Just to be clear - I don’t think Jones trips aren’t nice - if they were just trips. They are thinly disguised tools to create phantom handcuffs.



As for GAAP - certain things on the trip can be used - meals cannot be. But plane tickets and hotel rooms can. Certain activities can be as well. It was my CPA’s idea!



Branson, MO is not Cairns, Austrailia.
Oct 2, 2009 6:37 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]Sounds like a great deal.  Executive team building trips.  Umm…OK.  You’re CPA signs off on that does he?  But then GAAP is filled with all kinds of grey areas. 

  You apartment in Australia sounds like a lot of the timeshare places I've been here in the states.  Minus the swim up bars.  Heck, you can go to Branson, MO and get a two bedroom apartment with king beds, golf course view, jacuzzi tub, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc.        I'm not trying to downplay your vacations.  I'm trying to get the other folks who read this stuff to see that the Jones trips aren't the bad, worthless, expensive trips that a lot of you try to make them appear to be.  Anyone who travels a lot learns how to get good deals on travel.  You obviously travel enough to have learned some tricks.     [/quote]   Spiff, just a little tax/GAAP 101.  First off, GAAP doesn't matter in this case, tax law does.  Two different animals.  You can expense anything you want for P&L purposes, doesn't mean tax law allows it.    Secondly, you ever wonder why brokerage firms like to incur all the expense of your office, rather than allow you to pay it out of pocket and make you a 1099 employee? Taxes!   Third - Jones gets to expense the cost of the Div trips, just like an indy expenses theirs.  Why is it right for Jones, but not for an indy rep?  Because Genworth comes and talks about long-term care?   Sorry to say, on the Div Trips, I fall in the Indy camp.  Unless you are a real big producer and money's not really an object, the Div Trips are just way too expensive after taxes.  Plus, personally, I would be able to do the trips I like for a LOT less than Maritz. Think of it this way....you use AFTER TAX money to pay your expenses (a few thousand $$ if you have kids), then get TAXED on the value of the INFLATED trip cost (someone is paying for Maritz and that big steak dinner your kids didn't eat).
Oct 2, 2009 6:41 pm

No, Branson is certainly not Australia.  But where else in the world can you hear a russian comedian pontificating the virtues of America, see great feats of horsemanship while munching on a cornish hen, watch a craftsman turn a blob of sand into a stunning glass vase, get a funnel cake, and then get a great deal on a new pair of shoes at the outlet mall?  Certainly not in Australia.  

  I don't think Jones tries to thinly veil anything.  The trips are one of the big selling points with new FAs.  Work hard and you too can be enjoying vacationing in any one of a dozen and a half exotic locals.  There's no thinly disguised anything there. 
Oct 2, 2009 6:42 pm

[quote=bspears]Now Morean, we know you’re full of it.  Jones has the market cornered when it comes to trips.  Your trip(s) sound nice, but golly, you had to pay for them.  I mean, how could you have afforded those trips with the ALL the expenses being Indy.  I mean, cmon, phone, utilities, TP, rent, ticket charges…in my calculations, you would have to be paid 150% of production just to meet Jones’ 36%.  If I were you, and I’m not thank God, I would close shop and head over to the local Jones branch (if that one is closed) try another one, and ask to be their BOA.  

  You will never know what it is like to stay at a 5 star resort...never never never.  Jones has all of them, even some made up ones.  [/quote]   Once again in your never ended attempt to make yourself feel better about leaving Jones, you have missed the entire point of this conversation.  Of course that's not anything new with you.  Don't you have another pony you can do a trick with? 
Oct 2, 2009 7:04 pm

 Wow…1 trick pony.  Maybe B24 could help you with your math skills once again.  Are they really 5 star resorts or its just what the glossy catalog says?  Maybe they’re 3 star resorts, but are marketed as 5 star.  Have you ever been to a 5 star resort before slamming your clients into categories to win a “trip” to one of these exclusive reorts, only open to EDJ’s?

You jonesers are so brainwashed into thinking everything you have is the best, when in reality you don't have a clue of what is the best. 
Oct 2, 2009 7:05 pm

As far as i’m concerned, what’s wrong with taking 2 Jones trips a year and learning a bit while you are there from big producers and such. If you’re earning trips, you have enough cash to take a few trips of your own too. Best of both worlds in my opinion. I’ve been to Hawaii, Branson, Stowe, VT, Vegas (all paid for by me), and now going on a Div Trip, all in a year. Don’t make a sh*t to me to sit through 2 meetings and meet a few top producers. Hell I sat through a timeshare meeting to get a free $200 Luau in Hawaii, and arguing with the salesmen was worth it!