diversification trips

192 replies [Last post]
KELLWOZ1's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-09-29

i've heard a lot about diversification trips at edward jones...who can go on these trips besides the employee?

UNDERMINDED's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-10-14

The employees spouse, immediate family, or friend of the same sex.
 
I'm sure there are other stipulatory allowables but I'm not sure of the details.

henryhill's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-08-23

you can now bring someone you have a committed relationship with (i.e. live in girlfriend).  Cannot bring another FA or client

KELLWOZ1's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-09-29

what if the girlfriend is a client?

Ronnie Dobbs's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-07-23

henryhill wrote:you can now bring someone you have a committed relationship with (i.e. live in girlfriend).  Cannot bring another FA or client
 
Actually it says that you may bring a client, aslong as they do not work for another firm and it isn't involving any future business.

Ron 14's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-07-10

Windy - Give us more details on the same sex invites

Ronnie Dobbs's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-07-23

Ron 14 wrote:Windy - Give us more details on the same sex invites
 
I couldn't tell you, but we could ask your husband.

voltmoie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-11-05

Windy .. since you are not married how are you getting around the rule with your GF?

Ronnie Dobbs's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-07-23

voltmoie wrote:Windy .. since you are not married how are you getting around the rule with your GF?
 
A live in gf is considered a "Domestic Partner" if you share bills and/or have a child together. Ron and his husband needed a loophole to be able to suck face on a div trip, so in doing so they opened all the doors for people needing to bring their hot young gfs. Funny thing is Ron never made the numbers, so he never used the loophole. Now he hands suckers out and charges ATM fees.
 
Moral to the story - Ron's a homo

Ron 14's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-07-10

Windy, tell us again how a guy who is going to gross 250k plus in year 1 should stay at Jones and not go Indy ? Don't hit your head on Weddle's desk when you get up to type.

fa09's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-06-03

Are these questions being asked by ej fas? Have none of you used joneslink before?

voltmoie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-11-05

Ron 14 wrote:Windy, tell us again how a guy who is going to gross 250k plus in year 1 should stay at Jones and not go Indy ? Don't hit your head on Weddle's desk when you get up to type.

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

Ron 14 wrote: Windy, tell us again how a guy who is going to gross 250k plus in year 1 should stay at Jones and not go Indy ? Don't hit your head on Weddle's desk when you get up to type.

Damn it Ron, do you know how painful it is to have Mountain Dew come out of your nose!

Ron 14's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-07-10

That does hurt, sorry man!

voltmoie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-11-05

3rd time I've read it and it's still funny...  If you'd put spiff in there instead of Weddle I would have sent you a hundred dollars.

Ron 14's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-07-10

Damn, you are right. That would have been better.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-08-08

Hey, easy there boys.  I don't say stuff like that about you, I'd appreciate the same consideration. 
 
 

SometimesNowhere's picture
Joined: 2008-12-22

I miss WeddleMe.

Ronnie Dobbs's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-07-23

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Hey, easy there boys.  I don't say stuff like that about you, I'd appreciate the same consideration. 
 
 
 
You know better than to ask these guys to be adultlike....

snaggletooth's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-13

I hear this is the next Jones trip...looks fun!  http://www.couplesfest.com/

KELLWOZ1's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-09-29

that is a funny link...is that really where EJ people go to vacation?

Segment5Dude's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-08-11

KELLWOZ1 wrote:that is a funny link...is that really where EJ people go to vacation?
 
I enjoyed Italy in March. Nice 5 star resort. Where did your firm send you? 

Squash1's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-11-19

They didn't but with double the payout you are getting(not to mention the enormous tax bill you are getting on that) I could. Plus hanging out with Jones people isn't all that fun(have had experience)

KELLWOZ1's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-09-29

isn't there a trip this week to cairo...

voltmoie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-11-05

Squash1 wrote:They didn't but with double the payout you are getting(not to mention the enormous tax bill you are getting on that) I could. Plus hanging out with Jones people isn't all that fun(have had experience)
 
Double payout BEFORE expenses.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-08-08

Squash1 wrote:They didn't but with double the payout you are getting(not to mention the enormous tax bill you are getting on that) I could. Plus hanging out with Jones people isn't all that fun(have had experience)
 
That's a really tired, and not very well thought out comeback Squash.  "Enormous" tax bill is about $1500.  There's a trip to Rome this contest period that the room alone is over 300 euros a night.  Now throw in the airfare for two, breakfast every morning (optional, but free), two dinners (optional, but free), 4 dine arounds (Jones just hands you money and says go get dinner), plus the tour guide for the half day tour (also optional, but there for the taking) and you're way past $1500. Not to mention the fact that you have to do zero research on your own other than open the book and pick a trip.  Expedia can book the same hotel and fly you over there for about $4300.   Whether you have a better payout or not, the fact is that Jones people who are winning those trips can travel at a far lower cost than almost anyone else.   
 
My wife and I visited Italy on our first trip.  It would have been incredibly easy to not interact with the other Jones people at all if we would have wanted it that way.  I like Jones people in general, so it wasn't a goal of mine.  I met a lady on the flight over who we kept running into.  One day she invited my wife and I to join her for lunch.  I got to spend some quality time picking the brain of a $2 million producer over pasta in a random little restaurant.  As a new FA at the time, it was an incredible experience.  The trip, the people, the stuff Maritz put together...incredible.   
 
You can't tell me that you can't get away from the other Jones folks in places like Rome, Sydney, or New York.  The only meeting that's required is the business meeting for the FAs.  Other than that, you can be on your own. 
 
I figure I've got about 20-25 more years left with Jones.  Figure two trips a year, that's 40-50 vacations to places like Bali, Dubai, Costa Rica, New Zealand, Tahiti, or pretty much anywhere else you can think of that I'll get to experience.  Using today's dollars, I'll spend about $75K to do it.  Not a bad way to spend your career. 

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Squash1 wrote:They didn't but with double the payout you are getting(not to mention the enormous tax bill you are getting on that) I could. Plus hanging out with Jones people isn't all that fun(have had experience)
 
That's a really tired, and not very well thought out comeback Squash.  "Enormous" tax bill is about $1500.  There's a trip to Rome this contest period that the room alone is over 300 euros a night.  Now throw in the airfare for two, breakfast every morning (optional, but free), two dinners (optional, but free), 4 dine arounds (Jones just hands you money and says go get dinner), plus the tour guide for the half day tour (also optional, but there for the taking) and you're way past $1500. Not to mention the fact that you have to do zero research on your own other than open the book and pick a trip.  Expedia can book the same hotel and fly you over there for about $4300.   Whether you have a better payout or not, the fact is that Jones people who are winning those trips can travel at a far lower cost than almost anyone else.   
 
My wife and I visited Italy on our first trip.  It would have been incredibly easy to not interact with the other Jones people at all if we would have wanted it that way.  I like Jones people in general, so it wasn't a goal of mine.  I met a lady on the flight over who we kept running into.  One day she invited my wife and I to join her for lunch.  I got to spend some quality time picking the brain of a $2 million producer over pasta in a random little restaurant.  As a new FA at the time, it was an incredible experience.  The trip, the people, the stuff Maritz put together...incredible.   
 
You can't tell me that you can't get away from the other Jones folks in places like Rome, Sydney, or New York.  The only meeting that's required is the business meeting for the FAs.  Other than that, you can be on your own. 
 
I figure I've got about 20-25 more years left with Jones.  Figure two trips a year, that's 40-50 vacations to places like Bali, Dubai, Costa Rica, New Zealand, Tahiti, or pretty much anywhere else you can think of that I'll get to experience.  Using today's dollars, I'll spend about $75K to do it.  Not a bad way to spend your career. 

There should be NO required business meetings.

Vacation isn't "What's working for you?" or picking the brain of a $2 million producer. That's called WORK.

I went to Austrailia. Spent $3700 for 17 day trip. 5 were in Sydney, 12 in Cairns. That also includes a $250 dinner bill at the Sydney Opera House.

voltmoie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-11-05

Moraen wrote: There should be NO required business meetings. Vacation isn't "What's working for you?" or picking the brain of a $2 million producer. That's called WORK. I went to Austrailia. Spent $3700 for 17 day trip. 5 were in Sydney, 12 in Cairns. That also includes a $250 dinner bill at the Sydney Opera House.
 
People can define vacation any way they choose - one night of picking the brain of a star producer does not seem like too much.
 
.... If you only spent $3700 on that trip you must have flow for free.  Been to Austrailia about 4 times and it's not cheap to get there and I won't even go into the price of food.  Gotta love the people though, even if the females are not that hot.

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

voltmoie wrote: Moraen wrote: There should be NO required business meetings. Vacation isn't "What's working for you?" or picking the brain of a $2 million producer. That's called WORK. I went to Austrailia. Spent $3700 for 17 day trip. 5 were in Sydney, 12 in Cairns. That also includes a $250 dinner bill at the Sydney Opera House.
 
People can define vacation any way they choose - one night of picking the brain of a star producer does not seem like too much.
 
.... If you only spent $3700 on that trip you must have flow for free.  Been to Austrailia about 4 times and it's not cheap to get there and I won't even go into the price of food.  Gotta love the people though, even if the females are not that hot.

Depends on where you are flying from. March '05, got the ticket for $750. I even paid for my brother's. Called airlines directly and negotiated. Stayed in a resort apartment in Cairns for $60 a day (AUS), plus groceries. Three swimming pools, etc. Rented a car too. Also cheap.

I don't know what part of Austrailia you were in, but the food was only expensive in Sydney. Cairns was very inexpensive. And the women were hot in Cairns.

You are right about vacation being different for different people. I know that a vacation for me is not having people ask me "what's working for you?" and having to sit through a meeting with Jonesies.

But that's just me.

voltmoie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-11-05

Flights are a bit more expensive now and I fly from the east coast.  Good on you mate for that deal.
 
(my last tickets were $1350 each - just looked them up) 
 
Madrid, oh Mardrid ... all I can say is spain is hottie central.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-08-08

How many times in your career, especially as a new advisor, do you have the opportunity to just have lunch with a $2 million producer?  No appointments coming in, no phones ringing, no schedules to keep.  Just you, the big guy (girl in this case), and the pasta.  Time well spent in my opinion.
 
You obviously got a good deal on your trip down under.  But, for about the same price per day, the average Jones FA didn't have to call the airline company, the car rental company, the opera house, the condo people, etc to get all of that arranged and paid for.  Instead, he clicked a button on his desktop and waited for further instructions.  All he had to do was pack.  And I'd bet that your $60 a night apartment wasn't as nice as the 5 star hotel that the Jones guy would have been in.  It was probably sufficient, but not "pamper your spouse because she puts up with a lot of crap while you're working to run your business" nice.  I'll be there was no "Heavenly Bed" in that apartment.  You didn't have breakfast waiting for your family, no money in an envelope handed to you for dinners out on the town.  I'm sure your vacation was great.  Do you do that twice a year?   
 

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

Spaceman Spiff wrote: How many times in your career, especially as a new advisor, do you have the opportunity to just have lunch with a $2 million producer?  No appointments coming in, no phones ringing, no schedules to keep.  Just you, the big guy (girl in this case), and the pasta.  Time well spent in my opinion.
 
You obviously got a good deal on your trip down under.  But, for about the same price per day, the average Jones FA didn't have to call the airline company, the car rental company, the opera house, the condo people, etc to get all of that arranged and paid for.  Instead, he clicked a button on his desktop and waited for further instructions.  All he had to do was pack.  And I'd bet that your $60 a night apartment wasn't as nice as the 5 star hotel that the Jones guy would have been in.  It was probably sufficient, but not "pamper your spouse because she puts up with a lot of crap while you're working to run your business" nice.  I'll be there was no "Heavenly Bed" in that apartment.  You didn't have breakfast waiting for your family, no money in an envelope handed to you for dinners out on the town.  I'm sure your vacation was great.  Do you do that twice a year?    
 

Spiff you have no idea. That apartment had two bedrooms with king-sized beds, a porch that looked out over the river leading out the Reef, a golf course (if you play golf), tennis courts and three swimming pools, two with a swim up bar.

A little effort goes a long way. I also didn't have to go to a dinner, I was gone for a lot longer than you ever will be on a div trip (unless you extend it yourself), didn't have to see other Jonesies.

My wife and I go somewhere every quarter. Last year we went to Greece for two weeks. Not only that, we spent a day in Paris, two days in Germany, a few in the countryside around Northern Greece, four in Santorini. The year before that we climbed a mountain in the Alps and spent a few days driving through Italy. The same year as the Greece trip, we also spent a week in the Caymans scuba diving.

This year we went to Vegas and Tahiti. In addition, because my wife is involved in the business - these are Executive team building trips. Business pays for it. So while you get taxed on your trips - we expense ours.

Talk about saving money!

Spaceman Spiff's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-08-08

Sounds like a great deal.  Executive team building trips.  Umm...OK.  You're CPA signs off on that does he?  But then GAAP is filled with all kinds of grey areas. 
 
You apartment in Australia sounds like a lot of the timeshare places I've been here in the states.  Minus the swim up bars.  Heck, you can go to Branson, MO and get a two bedroom apartment with king beds, golf course view, jacuzzi tub, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc.     
 
I'm not trying to downplay your vacations.  I'm trying to get the other folks who read this stuff to see that the Jones trips aren't the bad, worthless, expensive trips that a lot of you try to make them appear to be.  Anyone who travels a lot learns how to get good deals on travel.  You obviously travel enough to have learned some tricks.   
 
 

bspears's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-11-08

Now Morean, we know you're full of it.  Jones has the market cornered when it comes to trips.  Your trip(s) sound nice, but golly, you had to pay for them.  I mean, how could you have afforded those trips with the ALL the expenses being Indy.  I mean, cmon, phone, utilities, TP, rent, ticket charges...in my calculations, you would have to be paid 150% of production just to meet Jones' 36%.  If I were you, and I'm not thank God, I would close shop and head over to the local Jones branch (if that one is closed) try another one, and ask to be their BOA.  
 
You will never know what it is like to stay at a 5 star resort...never never never.  Jones has all of them, even some made up ones. 

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Sounds like a great deal.  Executive team building trips.  Umm...OK.  You're CPA signs off on that does he?  But then GAAP is filled with all kinds of grey areas. 
 
You apartment in Australia sounds like a lot of the timeshare places I've been here in the states.  Minus the swim up bars.  Heck, you can go to Branson, MO and get a two bedroom apartment with king beds, golf course view, jacuzzi tub, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc.      
 
I'm not trying to downplay your vacations.  I'm trying to get the other folks who read this stuff to see that the Jones trips aren't the bad, worthless, expensive trips that a lot of you try to make them appear to be.  Anyone who travels a lot learns how to get good deals on travel.  You obviously travel enough to have learned some tricks.   
 
 

Just to be clear - I don't think Jones trips aren't nice - if they were just trips. They are thinly disguised tools to create phantom handcuffs.

As for GAAP - certain things on the trip can be used - meals cannot be. But plane tickets and hotel rooms can. Certain activities can be as well. It was my CPA's idea!

Branson, MO is not Cairns, Austrailia.

B24's picture
B24
Offline
Joined: 2008-07-08

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Sounds like a great deal.  Executive team building trips.  Umm...OK.  You're CPA signs off on that does he?  But then GAAP is filled with all kinds of grey areas. 
 
You apartment in Australia sounds like a lot of the timeshare places I've been here in the states.  Minus the swim up bars.  Heck, you can go to Branson, MO and get a two bedroom apartment with king beds, golf course view, jacuzzi tub, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc.     
 
I'm not trying to downplay your vacations.  I'm trying to get the other folks who read this stuff to see that the Jones trips aren't the bad, worthless, expensive trips that a lot of you try to make them appear to be.  Anyone who travels a lot learns how to get good deals on travel.  You obviously travel enough to have learned some tricks.   
 
 
Spiff, just a little tax/GAAP 101.  First off, GAAP doesn't matter in this case, tax law does.  Two different animals.  You can expense anything you want for P&L purposes, doesn't mean tax law allows it. 
 
Secondly, you ever wonder why brokerage firms like to incur all the expense of your office, rather than allow you to pay it out of pocket and make you a 1099 employee? Taxes!
 
Third - Jones gets to expense the cost of the Div trips, just like an indy expenses theirs.  Why is it right for Jones, but not for an indy rep?  Because Genworth comes and talks about long-term care?
 
Sorry to say, on the Div Trips, I fall in the Indy camp.  Unless you are a real big producer and money's not really an object, the Div Trips are just way too expensive after taxes.  Plus, personally, I would be able to do the trips I like for a LOT less than Maritz.
Think of it this way....you use AFTER TAX money to pay your expenses (a few thousand $$ if you have kids), then get TAXED on the value of the INFLATED trip cost (someone is paying for Maritz and that big steak dinner your kids didn't eat).

Spaceman Spiff's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-08-08

No, Branson is certainly not Australia.  But where else in the world can you hear a russian comedian pontificating the virtues of America, see great feats of horsemanship while munching on a cornish hen, watch a craftsman turn a blob of sand into a stunning glass vase, get a funnel cake, and then get a great deal on a new pair of shoes at the outlet mall?  Certainly not in Australia.  
 
I don't think Jones tries to thinly veil anything.  The trips are one of the big selling points with new FAs.  Work hard and you too can be enjoying vacationing in any one of a dozen and a half exotic locals.  There's no thinly disguised anything there. 

Spaceman Spiff's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-08-08

bspears wrote:Now Morean, we know you're full of it.  Jones has the market cornered when it comes to trips.  Your trip(s) sound nice, but golly, you had to pay for them.  I mean, how could you have afforded those trips with the ALL the expenses being Indy.  I mean, cmon, phone, utilities, TP, rent, ticket charges...in my calculations, you would have to be paid 150% of production just to meet Jones' 36%.  If I were you, and I'm not thank God, I would close shop and head over to the local Jones branch (if that one is closed) try another one, and ask to be their BOA.  
 
You will never know what it is like to stay at a 5 star resort...never never never.  Jones has all of them, even some made up ones. 
 
Once again in your never ended attempt to make yourself feel better about leaving Jones, you have missed the entire point of this conversation.  Of course that's not anything new with you.  Don't you have another pony you can do a trick with? 

bspears's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-11-08

 Wow..1 trick pony.  Maybe B24 could help you with your math skills once again.  Are they really 5 star resorts or its just what the glossy catalog says?  Maybe they're 3 star resorts, but are marketed as 5 star.  Have you ever been to a 5 star resort before slamming your clients into categories to win a "trip" to one of these exclusive reorts, only open to EDJ's?
You jonesers are so brainwashed into thinking everything you have is the best, when in reality you don't have a clue of what is the best. 

Ronnie Dobbs's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-07-23

As far as i'm concerned, what's wrong with taking 2 Jones trips a year and learning a bit while you are there from big producers and such. If you're earning trips, you have enough cash to take a few trips of your own too. Best of both worlds in my opinion. I've been to Hawaii, Branson, Stowe, VT, Vegas (all paid for by me), and now going on a Div Trip, all in a year. Don't make a sh*t to me to sit through 2 meetings and meet a few top producers. Hell I sat through a timeshare meeting to get a free $200 Luau in Hawaii, and arguing with the salesmen was worth it!

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: As far as i'm concerned, what's wrong with taking 2 Jones trips a year and learning a bit while you are there from big producers and such. If you're earning trips, you have enough cash to take a few trips of your own too. Best of both worlds in my opinion. I've been to Hawaii, Branson, Stowe, VT, Vegas (all paid for by me), and now going on a Div Trip, all in a year. Don't make a sh*t to me to sit through 2 meetings and meet a few top producers. Hell I sat through a timeshare meeting to get a free $200 Luau in Hawaii, and arguing with the salesmen was worth it!

You haven't even been on one yet and are already making judgements about how great they are?

Spaceman Spiff's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-08-08

B24 wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:Sounds like a great deal.  Executive team building trips.  Umm...OK.  You're CPA signs off on that does he?  But then GAAP is filled with all kinds of grey areas. 
 
You apartment in Australia sounds like a lot of the timeshare places I've been here in the states.  Minus the swim up bars.  Heck, you can go to Branson, MO and get a two bedroom apartment with king beds, golf course view, jacuzzi tub, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc.     
 
I'm not trying to downplay your vacations.  I'm trying to get the other folks who read this stuff to see that the Jones trips aren't the bad, worthless, expensive trips that a lot of you try to make them appear to be.  Anyone who travels a lot learns how to get good deals on travel.  You obviously travel enough to have learned some tricks.   
 
 
Spiff, just a little tax/GAAP 101.  First off, GAAP doesn't matter in this case, tax law does.  Two different animals.  You can expense anything you want for P&L purposes, doesn't mean tax law allows it. 
 
Secondly, you ever wonder why brokerage firms like to incur all the expense of your office, rather than allow you to pay it out of pocket and make you a 1099 employee? Taxes!
 
Third - Jones gets to expense the cost of the Div trips, just like an indy expenses theirs.  Why is it right for Jones, but not for an indy rep?  Because Genworth comes and talks about long-term care?
 
Sorry to say, on the Div Trips, I fall in the Indy camp.  Unless you are a real big producer and money's not really an object, the Div Trips are just way too expensive after taxes.  Plus, personally, I would be able to do the trips I like for a LOT less than Maritz.
Think of it this way....you use AFTER TAX money to pay your expenses (a few thousand $$ if you have kids), then get TAXED on the value of the INFLATED trip cost (someone is paying for Maritz and that big steak dinner your kids didn't eat).
 
First, I don't remember enough of my accounting classes to be anywhere close to fluent in accounting linge.  My apologies for using the wrong terminology.
 
Second, Jones only gets to expense the part of the trip that they pay for.  Genworth or John Hanc*** or whoever gets to expense the other part.  I understand the tax benefits to the firm. 
 
Third, this one is my opinion, not anything I've ever heard anyone from the firm talk about.  I've heard more than one indy advisor talk about all the things they get to expense through their businesses.  Some of it, like Morean's vacations, sorry Executive Team Building trips make me shake my head and kind of chuckle.  I don't have a problem with anyone writing off legitimate business expenses.  But to write off your vacation because you take your wife who happens to be a part of your staff is pushing it in my opinion.  Jones gets to write off those trips because they set them up as a production bonus.  Not unlike the bonuses they pay the new FAs.  I think there's a big difference between a firm sponsored trip and my personal vacation to Disney World. 
 
 
 

Spaceman Spiff's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-08-08

bspears wrote: Wow..1 trick pony.  Maybe B24 could help you with your math skills once again.  Are they really 5 star resorts or its just what the glossy catalog says?  Maybe they're 3 star resorts, but are marketed as 5 star.  Have you ever been to a 5 star resort before slamming your clients into categories to win a "trip" to one of these exclusive reorts, only open to EDJ's?
You jonesers are so brainwashed into thinking everything you have is the best, when in reality you don't have a clue of what is the best. 
 
You really are an idiot aren't you? 
 
Slamming my clients into categories?  Exclusive resorts only open to EDJ's? 
 
I'm guessing from your last sentence that you have discovered what is the best and it's anything that EDJ isn't involved in?  Did you ever go on a Div Trip? 
 
The categories I normally fill are growth, growth and income, taxable income, and insurance.  What part of that is slamming my clients into categories?  I did fill non taxable income this time too.  Maybe that's the slamming you're talking about.  I forced my clients into tax free bonds. 
 
As far as I know, if you wanted to treat your wife to a resort better than you might be able to find in someplace like Podunk, IN you can book a room at any of the hotels Jones uses for the Div trips.   If you want to go to Borneo you can book it at Shangri-La's Tanjung Aru Resort.  Or if your passport has been confiscated for some reason and you need to stay in the continental US you could try Fairmont, Washington D.C.  Those are just a couple of the nineteen different destinations Jones has booked recently.  I'm sure Mrs. Spears would be thrilled to go to any of those places.  You should look into it.     
 

noggin's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

I see both sides to the argument and what I will say is pretty simple. The taxation is pretty rough at Jones on the trips, it simply does not work in favor of the FA, it works in the firm's favor. After a couple of trips, the shine was off of the trips for me. I personally didn't enjoy yet another meeting to stand up and tell when my can sell date was, where I was from and my name. It was interesting to sit next to a big producer at a dinner and pick their brain but what I discovered after a while is that they had been in the business 20 years or more or inherited a ton of assets. My wife and I counted on the 3 Div trips that we took and no one was on any of the trips that started on or after I did unless they inherited a ton of assets. I do count it a honor to have visited France, Portugal and China on trips but when you weigh the facts out you discover that the trips are used as a tool to govern behavior.
 
There was a certain aura of entitlement that I saw especially from those that inherited assets. To be sure this was a minority but it was strange none the less. This certainly makes the trips less enjoyable than they certainly deserve to be. My favorite was in China when we were back in the hotel after a shopping excursion, someone was talking about buying rolex watches on the street. I bought 3 for 5 bucks or so...one of the people on the trip who had inherited I think 40M or so had to show us his REAL rolex and talk about how much he paid for it. We all thought it was pretty funny especially when he couldn't point out any differences in the watches.......

B24's picture
B24
Offline
Joined: 2008-07-08

Spaceman Spiff wrote:B24 wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:Sounds like a great deal.  Executive team building trips.  Umm...OK.  You're CPA signs off on that does he?  But then GAAP is filled with all kinds of grey areas. 
 
You apartment in Australia sounds like a lot of the timeshare places I've been here in the states.  Minus the swim up bars.  Heck, you can go to Branson, MO and get a two bedroom apartment with king beds, golf course view, jacuzzi tub, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc.     
 
I'm not trying to downplay your vacations.  I'm trying to get the other folks who read this stuff to see that the Jones trips aren't the bad, worthless, expensive trips that a lot of you try to make them appear to be.  Anyone who travels a lot learns how to get good deals on travel.  You obviously travel enough to have learned some tricks.   
 
 
Spiff, just a little tax/GAAP 101.  First off, GAAP doesn't matter in this case, tax law does.  Two different animals.  You can expense anything you want for P&L purposes, doesn't mean tax law allows it. 
 
Secondly, you ever wonder why brokerage firms like to incur all the expense of your office, rather than allow you to pay it out of pocket and make you a 1099 employee? Taxes!
 
Third - Jones gets to expense the cost of the Div trips, just like an indy expenses theirs.  Why is it right for Jones, but not for an indy rep?  Because Genworth comes and talks about long-term care?
 
Sorry to say, on the Div Trips, I fall in the Indy camp.  Unless you are a real big producer and money's not really an object, the Div Trips are just way too expensive after taxes.  Plus, personally, I would be able to do the trips I like for a LOT less than Maritz.
Think of it this way....you use AFTER TAX money to pay your expenses (a few thousand $$ if you have kids), then get TAXED on the value of the INFLATED trip cost (someone is paying for Maritz and that big steak dinner your kids didn't eat).
 
First, I don't remember enough of my accounting classes to be anywhere close to fluent in accounting linge.  My apologies for using the wrong terminology.
 
Second, Jones only gets to expense the part of the trip that they pay for.  Genworth or John Hanc*** or whoever gets to expense the other part.  I understand the tax benefits to the firm. 
 
Third, this one is my opinion, not anything I've ever heard anyone from the firm talk about.  I've heard more than one indy advisor talk about all the things they get to expense through their businesses.  Some of it, like Morean's vacations, sorry Executive Team Building trips make me shake my head and kind of chuckle.  I don't have a problem with anyone writing off legitimate business expenses.  But to write off your vacation because you take your wife who happens to be a part of your staff is pushing it in my opinion.  Jones gets to write off those trips because they set them up as a production bonus.  Not unlike the bonuses they pay the new FAs.  I think there's a big difference between a firm sponsored trip and my personal vacation to Disney World. 
 
 
We are all entitled to our opinions.  Virtually everyone I know that's been on them love them.  Never heard a single complaint (outside this board).  Personally, the trips were the one thing I didn't like about Jones, even before starting here.  I just don't like the idea of incentive trips.  I think it sends a bad message to clients.  It sends the message that your advisor is a salesman, incented to sell as much to you as possible.  I am good friends with an ADP rep.  He just won his first incent trip at ADP.  He is a salesman.  It's not that I look down at salespeople, it's that the concept of being a salesperson in the investment advice business seems inherently wrong.  And there is no two ways around it, the Div Trips are sales incentive trips.  We can call them whatever we want.  You sell more, you go on trip.  I just don't like that.  But there's really no way around it.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-08-08

How could the taxation work in the favor of the FA?  Unless there weren't any taxes, I'm not sure I understand how the taxation could possibly be a benefit to the FA.  You're going to have to educate me on that one. 
A tool to govern behavior?  What kind of behavior do you think they're trying to govern?  Put your client's assets in a well diversified portfolio?   Don't sell all growth stocks?  You're going to have to explain that one too.

LockEDJ's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-07-06

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
...Third, this one is my opinion, not anything I've ever heard anyone from the firm talk about.  I've heard more than one indy advisor talk about all the things they get to expense through their businesses.  Some of it, like Morean's vacations, sorry Executive Team Building trips make me shake my head and kind of chuckle.  I don't have a problem with anyone writing off legitimate business expenses.  But to write off your vacation because you take your wife who happens to be a part of your staff is pushing it in my opinion.  Jones gets to write off those trips because they set them up as a production bonus.  Not unlike the bonuses they pay the new FAs.  I think there's a big difference between a firm sponsored trip and my personal vacation to Disney World. 
 
 

WTF? Really??? You work for a firm, Morean works for a firm. Both firms send their employees on a trip. You get to own a part of your firm; Morean gets to own all of his. How is that any different? You benefit - albeit indirectly as a partner - from the positive tax consequences of how Jones handles the trips. Morean benefits wholly from the tax implications of his trip and well he should, as he has taken on the risk.
 
That his employee is his wife ... well, I would have loved to be able to hire my son to work with me. Wouldn't you like something like that? If that was the case, would you be so against sharing the team-building exercises with another FA? And above all, what gives you the right to judge sight unseen what his wife does for his firm???
 
I can dig defending the Jones trips, even never having been on one - they seem pretty neat. But I think you're a little far afield and letting your emotions get the better of you on this one, Space. 
 
JMO.

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

Spaceman Spiff wrote: B24 wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:Sounds like a great deal.  Executive team building trips.  Umm...OK.  You're CPA signs off on that does he?  But then GAAP is filled with all kinds of grey areas. 
 
You apartment in Australia sounds like a lot of the timeshare places I've been here in the states.  Minus the swim up bars.  Heck, you can go to Branson, MO and get a two bedroom apartment with king beds, golf course view, jacuzzi tub, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc.      
 
I'm not trying to downplay your vacations.  I'm trying to get the other folks who read this stuff to see that the Jones trips aren't the bad, worthless, expensive trips that a lot of you try to make them appear to be.  Anyone who travels a lot learns how to get good deals on travel.  You obviously travel enough to have learned some tricks.   
 
 
Spiff, just a little tax/GAAP 101.  First off, GAAP doesn't matter in this case, tax law does.  Two different animals.  You can expense anything you want for P&L purposes, doesn't mean tax law allows it. 
 
Secondly, you ever wonder why brokerage firms like to incur all the expense of your office, rather than allow you to pay it out of pocket and make you a 1099 employee? Taxes!
 
Third - Jones gets to expense the cost of the Div trips, just like an indy expenses theirs.  Why is it right for Jones, but not for an indy rep?  Because Genworth comes and talks about long-term care?
 
Sorry to say, on the Div Trips, I fall in the Indy camp.  Unless you are a real big producer and money's not really an object, the Div Trips are just way too expensive after taxes.  Plus, personally, I would be able to do the trips I like for a LOT less than Maritz.
Think of it this way....you use AFTER TAX money to pay your expenses (a few thousand $$ if you have kids), then get TAXED on the value of the INFLATED trip cost (someone is paying for Maritz and that big steak dinner your kids didn't eat).
 
First, I don't remember enough of my accounting classes to be anywhere close to fluent in accounting linge.  My apologies for using the wrong terminology.
 
Second, Jones only gets to expense the part of the trip that they pay for.  Genworth or John Hanc*** or whoever gets to expense the other part.  I understand the tax benefits to the firm. 
 
Third, this one is my opinion, not anything I've ever heard anyone from the firm talk about.  I've heard more than one indy advisor talk about all the things they get to expense through their businesses.  Some of it, like Morean's vacations, sorry Executive Team Building trips make me shake my head and kind of chuckle.  I don't have a problem with anyone writing off legitimate business expenses.  But to write off your vacation because you take your wife who happens to be a part of your staff is pushing it in my opinion.  Jones gets to write off those trips because they set them up as a production bonus.  Not unlike the bonuses they pay the new FAs.  I think there's a big difference between a firm sponsored trip and my personal vacation to Disney World. 
 
 
 

It's called an executive perk. Companies do it all the time. Jones does it all of the time. Why do the GP's get to go on Div trips?

bspears's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-11-08

Spiffy is drunk on koolaid.  He's the real idiot.  Giving up 64% to rub elbows with people who he wants to be, but those people are fakes.  Most of the non 20 year vets INHERITED assets or took over large offices. Are you to stupid to see the brains you want to pick are no more educated in building an office than you are.  Why is it so obvious, even to someone's wife, that Jones is a pig with lipstick. 
 
IF you want to rub elbows with people who have built great businesses, look up the top 20 advisors at Raymond James, LPL or Common Wealth.  I'm sure they would be able to teach you more than doorknocking or calling 25 people a day with the best 30 year bond in inventory. 

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

Also, for the record - my wife is no mere employee. My business would not be a success if it was not for her. I have zero doubt of that. She contributes likely a lot more than I do.

Ron 14's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-07-10

I have fond memories of my diversification trip. Midway through our first meeting I stepped out to take a leak. As I am washing my hands I see behind me, through the angle of the mirror, the RL and a newbie who got a 40mil goodknight walk into the same stall with the newbie carrying a brown paper bag. I thought they were going in to clean something up, but as I walked towards the door I only saw the paper bag and the newbie's feet positioned like he was taking a deuce. I then realized why "servicing" clients was the theme of the meeting or should I say meating.

Please or Register to post comments.

Industry Newsletters
Investment Category Sponsor Links

 

Careers Category Sponsor Links

Sponsored Introduction Continue on to (or wait seconds) ×