decision time help

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gorgeko226's picture
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i am looking at a job with morgan.
i like investing and helping people to understand how this stuff works and how important it is. if i take this gig it will involve moving to a new place etc. i have known a couple people who have worked in this biz and none is still in it.....kind of worrisome. i need to know a couple of things

1.if i want to help people is this the wrong place? i won't push people into garbage to make a buck. i am honest and dont want to be in a job where i cant make it unless im pushing shady or lesser stuff.

2.if it sucks and i havent been informed of a training agreement in my hire packet,(im expecting a.. sign this on the first day thing)nothing has been said about it in multiple convrsations with them.will i get stuck with the training costs?

3.whats the job like for a new guy in a state where they know 0 people.

4. if you work in this career and it doesnt happen, will other industries think this experience is good or worthless?

please give your 2 cents.

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Let's see what we have here.
1.  No experience.
2.  No contacts, not even from here
3.  Cannot write a coherent sentence, cannot spell, cannot punctuate, and cannot conjugate verbs.
Yep, sounds like a winner to me.
Who wants to bet that this guy has been talking to a broker in a bar somewhere and thinks he's about to get a job offer?
"Yeah Dude, like I would be a, like, really great broker...but what if, like, I don't know anybody and I have the communications skills of a moron?  Like will that, like, be a, like, problem...ifyaknowwhatimean?"

NASD Newbie's picture
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gorgeko226 wrote:i am looking at a job with morgan. i like investing and helping people to understand how this stuff works and how important it is. if i take this gig it will involve moving to a new place etc. i have known a couple people who have worked in this biz and none is still in it.....kind of worrisome. i need to know a couple of things 1.if i want to help people is this the wrong place? i won't push people into garbage to make a buck. i am honest and dont want to be in a job where i cant make it unless im pushing shady or lesser stuff. 2.if it sucks and i havent been informed of a training agreement in my hire packet,(im expecting a.. sign this on the first day thing)nothing has been said about it in multiple convrsations with them.will i get stuck with the training costs? 3.whats the job like for a new guy in a state where they know 0 people. 4. if you work in this career and it doesnt happen, will other industries think this experience is good or worthless? please give your 2 cents.
Let's, like, parse that--just for the fun of it on a early Fourth of July.
Morgan?  Must be JP Morgan, wouldn't you think?  Could be Morgan Keegan out of Memphis.  It couldn't be Morgan Stanley, they would have higher standards, wouldn't you think?
I'll bet it's Morgan Fairchild--a new boiler room starting in Syosset.  Yeah, that's the ticket.
How many of you like your "gig?"  You thought you had a career, little did you know it's a gig.  Once we get the amps and speakers put away we can just relax--do a few drugs, get laid and chill out.
I have known a couple of people...is not still.  Yep, any bright young man knows that the proper verb to use with plural noun such as "couple of people" is the singular verb "is."  Gotta love somebody who has the language mastered.
I need to know a couple of things....one, two, three, four.  How many be a couple?
Help people?  How many of you think of this as a form of charitable work--you know, you could work for Catholic Charities or Smith Barney.
If it sucks?  Nope, what he means is "If I suck...."  Yep, an ideal new hire is somebody who is more worried about getting out of repaying their training costs than what to do with their first five figure paycheck.
What's this job like if you're in a new place with zero contacts?  Must be a form of the Dumb and Dumber game.
Will other industries find this experience worthwhile?
That's a serious question.  Of course it's worthwhile, but what most people find is that potential employers in other selling fields look upon somebody who failed as a stockbroker as a complete an utter failure.
They, the other employer, are often envious of stockbrokers because they wanted to be one and could not catch on, so they accepted what they consider to be a lesser job.
It is not unlike a major league ball player who shows up at a minor league team asking for a tryout.  The minor league coach is going to be very suspicious of why this is happening.
If you've failed at what most selling organizations consider to be the best selling job in the world, it's not easy to put a happy face on that failure.
 

gorgeko226's picture
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Joined: 2006-07-04

hey newbie

why do you feel the need to bash on people. can you get a straight answer to your questions on this board without someone calling you an idiot. your first post is rude and the second is halfway helpful. sorry i called it a gig and didnt have the
english perfect. forgive me before i jump out a window. to clarify, its morgan stanley. i do have an offer and yes i dont have experience. i would need to move and dont know anybody where i would be going. i am sure i would not be the first person ever in that situation. a couple people is 4 who have worked at various firms, and they all are in other fields now. i know its not a charity, but i think its legitimate to ask will i be expected to do whats best for the firm or the client. because if they want me to push pets.coms second offering, i am not going to want to do it.

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gorgeko226 wrote:hey newbie why do you feel the need to bash on people. can you get a straight answer to your questions on this board without someone calling you an idiot. your first post is rude and the second is halfway helpful. sorry i called it a gig and didnt have the english perfect. forgive me before i jump out a window. to clarify, its morgan stanley. i do have an offer and yes i dont have experience. i would need to move and dont know anybody where i would be going. i am sure i would not be the first person ever in that situation. a couple people is 4 who have worked at various firms, and they all are in other fields now. i know its not a charity, but i think its legitimate to ask will i be expected to do whats best for the firm or the client. because if they want me to push pets.coms second offering, i am not going to want to do it.
You did nothing to cause me to think that you're career will last longer than the average life of a housefly.
But then all I have to go on is thirty-five years of management experinence in the business--we have no idea what it takes to succeed.

gorgeko226's picture
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being rude and having experience are not the same thing. you dont know anything about me or my ability to make it. the reason im asking questions is because im looking for answers not a super helpful english lesson or an assorted basket of put downs.

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gorgeko226 wrote:being rude and having experience are not the same thing. you dont know anything about me or my ability to make it. the reason im asking questions is because im looking for answers not a super helpful english lesson or an assorted basket of put downs.
I am giving you advice.  My advice is that you're not smart enough, nor industrious enough, to make it.
As I said all I have to go on is first hand knowledge of several what happened to several hundred brokers who I've seen come and go.
I have never seen one who is not only angry but intentionally goes out of their way to appear to be stupid to have what it takes to make it.
What are you going to do to find clients when you have no contacts and are in a strange city?
I've been around long enogh to know that no manager worth a damn is going to offer a job to such a person--so that's why I suspect you're reading more into a casual conversation than is there.

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gorgeko226 wrote:being rude and having experience are not the same thing. you dont know anything about me or my ability to make it. the reason im asking questions is because im looking for answers not a super helpful english lesson or an assorted basket of put downs.
If somebody asks, "Do you think I have what it takes to succeed in this business?" is the only acceptable answer yes?
Is it rude to tell them not only no, but hell no?
If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

gorgeko226's picture
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hey are you and bef the same person?
im not angry and im not trying to look stupid. if you were joing the military for 3 years, would you not ask questions? i didnt ask you if i could make it in this business. i asked a couple of questions and you answered one, which im thankful for at least that.i hope someone else responds because it appears you have a bone to pick and enjoy trying to stomp on strangers. you and bef should try to answer questions and be helpful instead of looking for ways to stroke your ego and talk down to people.

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At the top of the thread are four questions, all of them indicating a remarkable lack of understanding about this industry.
My advice is to not even waste your time.  That may not be what you want to hear, but it is the advice of a guy who has hired and trained hundreds and hundreds of rookies over the course of thirty years.
What makes you think you can convince strangers to invest $100,000 per week with you?
You know nobody in the town where you're talking about working--just how do you propose accomplishing that?
$100,000 this week, $100,000 next week, $100,000 in the week after that.  Repeat for three years.
If you don't do it this week you'll have to do $200,000 next week, if you fail again next week you'll have to do $300,000 the week after that.
You're so lazy that you can't even write an Internet forum message without making yourself look stupid--where are you going to get the skills to entice people with investable capital to allow you near it?

cranky sob's picture
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gorgeko226 wrote:hey are you and bef the same person? im not angry and im not trying to look stupid. if you were joing the military for 3 years, would you not ask questions? i didnt ask you if i could make it in this business. i asked a couple of questions and you answered one, which im thankful for at least that.i hope someone else responds because it appears you have a bone to pick and enjoy trying to stomp on strangers. you and bef should try to answer questions and be helpful instead of looking for ways to stroke your ego and talk down to people.
Why don't you ask the people at "Morgan?" THese would've been great interview questions. You ain't gonna make it, housefly.

gorgeko226's picture
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maybe i have a lack of understanding about the industry because i havent been in it? thats why i am asking questions.....are you for real.

the middle part of your post is helpful and then you drop back in to the smack downs. i think your the angry one. from what im getting from you i dont think you believe any new guy can make it. doesnt everyone start off new. being in a new area is a disadvantage but does that make it impossible?

hawg's picture
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Joined: 2005-07-20

gorgeko, I think Nasd Newbie is probably offended by how casual your questions are. They seem to indicate a lack of respect for the amount of hard work, intelligence, and persistence this job requires. You have to forgive him, we are constantly belittled and treated with a lack of respect by the media, so we can be a little testy. You should call up a couple of brokers from various firms and see if you can maybe take them to lunch to get anwsers to your questions. You won't get much help here. Most of these people have an ax to grind, and can be quite rude. Good luck.

gorgeko226's picture
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thanks hawg
i realize its an important career and that its not easy. i dont take it casually because it would be a big change for me. new career, new state, no family or friends there etc. thanks for the tip.

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gorgeko226 wrote:maybe i have a lack of understanding about the industry because i havent been in it? thats why i am asking questions.....are you for real. the middle part of your post is helpful and then you drop back in to the smack downs. i think your the angry one. from what im getting from you i dont think you believe any new guy can make it. doesnt everyone start off new. being in a new area is a disadvantage but does that make it impossible?
Sure everybody starts out new--but in a town where they are known, where their family is known, where they have a network.
If you come from great wealth you can make it anywhere by simply transferring your family's accounts to your firm.
If not you have virtually no chance unless you bring something to the table.  Are you famous?  Are you a star football player from your university--so your fellow alumni will want to do business with you?
Again, my advice is to not even bother to try.  Ninety out of every one hundred people who get registered are gone within two years--washed out because the odds are so long.
But that is not all you have going against you.  You are stupid.  I realize that it's hard to hear, but you are.  You exhibit signs of borderline illiteracy, yet you grew up in this country.  You had every opportunity to learn yet you refused to, or you're stupid.
You're good material for a trades type job.  Be a UPS delivery guy, drive a truck, work at a factory.  Do something that is within your grasp and not outside of your skill set.
That is an honest opinion.  I'll ask again, why am I wrong?  What do you bring to the table that would interest me?
I'm the epitome of who you have to impress.

gorgeko226's picture
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I think you are a very rude and petty person. The unfortunate thing is that I think you have some helpful insight which is buried in a need to step on others to elevate yourself. In essence a classic bully. I am not interested in your evaluation of my intellect or my career prospects. Not everyone views formal writing as a necessity in quick email and message board posting. If you think you can determine a persons worth based on that, so be it.

bankrep1's picture
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georgeko,
Don't listen to newbie.  In fact, he failed in this business not once but twice.  He posted his resume a while back and it showed he tried two separate times at two separate firms and only made it through a few years at each.
He then was "promoted" to a manager/teacher.  You've heard the phrase those that can't do teach, right?  I think moving somewhere new will allow you to focus on your work, you won't have distractions, you get to build a new reputation from day 1, this country is full of nice people that are financially illiterate, they need our help.

gorgeko226's picture
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Thank you bankrep1

I appreciate your positive post. Its nice to know there are   positive and helpful people on this board. I totally agree that many people need help and that is a large part of what attracts me to this field.

opie's picture
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Joined: 2006-06-15

NASD Newbie:
In your experience, did you see new FA's succeed without the millions in family money or local celebrity persona, based on sheer willpower and hard/smart work?

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opie wrote:
NASD Newbie:
In your experience, did you see new FA's succeed without the millions in family money or local celebrity persona, based on sheer willpower and hard/smart work?

Absolutely.  But the reality is that it is very hard.  It takes a tremendous amount of sacrifice as well as a healthy dose of luck.
The same sort of effort that results in great GPAs in college is what it's going to take in this business.  If you are a typical "Gen X" slacker there is no way in hell you're going to make it in the bone crushing competition that is Wall Street.
It is nonsensical to think that there are people with money sitting out there hoping a kid who cannot write a coherent sentence is going to call them on the phone or send them a generic mailer inviting them to come to a seminar somewhere.  It's just not going to happen.
A theme of mine is to get you young people to think of your own mother and father as a prospect.  Do you think they would be inclined to invest their retirement money based on suggestions you make to them?
I'll answer for them, no.  And if they are not inclined to trust you why should anybody else their age trust you either?
This is a business that rewards gray hair and wrinkles--so if you're going to try to compete you'd better appear to be much older than you are.  You do that by wearing very conservative clothes, driving a four door sedan, carrying a traditional briefcase, and learning to communicate as an adult.
Adults capitalize the first words in sentences. They know how to conjugate verbs, and know that punctuation makes what you're trying to say easier to understand.  I realize it's a pet peeve and that I am overbearing with it--but the Gen X slacker is not an impressive creature so if you're one it's time to grow up.
I came of age in the 1960s.  Trust me, there is not a successful man or woman who continued to wear their hair long and consider themselves suitably dressed in tiedyed bell bottoms.  You still see them around--go to Mendocino County California--but they're life's also rans in the year 2006.  Your generation is going to have to give up thinking that being really great at video games is what mattters, you're going to have to learn a lot of things that you were not taught in school because it was more important that you feel good about yourself and learn to be accepting of diversity and inclusiveness.
It really is more important that you know how to write a coherent business letter than it is that you embrace diversity and the dolphins.
I'll say it again.  If you're under thirty-five you should NOT join a wirehouse.  The odds of success are akin to the odds of being struck by lightning.  Instead go to an Ameriprise or a MetLife or AXA Advisors or anywhere except the Big Six that I listed the other day and get some seasoning.
If you fail at a wirehouse you're never going to be able to come back--why in the world would you want to buck the odds?

eddjones654's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-03

yeah go to work for the kool-aid crowd!! 

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