Breaking into the Industry

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Mr Magnificent's picture
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Hello All:
What are some other alternatives to getting into the industry, besides taking the Advisor or Broker route?

Put Trader's picture
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Mr Magnificent wrote:Hello All:
What are some other alternatives to getting into the industry, besides taking the Advisor or Broker route?

Where do you live?

Starka's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Listen to Put Trader, Mr. Magnificent.  He's a perfect example of a mediocre intellect who aspires to the brokerage business, while being incapable of being a broker himself.  Of course, what you're now witnessing is the meltdown of this same mediocre person.

Mr Magnificent's picture
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dc,md,va area

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:Listen to Put Trader, Mr. Magnificent.  He's a
perfect example of a mediocre intellect who aspires to the brokerage
business, while being incapable of being a broker himself.  Of
course, what you're now witnessing is the meltdown of this same
mediocre person.

Or you can listen to Starka who fancies himself qualified to talk to me.

Starka, get back with me when you've done anything in the industry
besides pitching shares in non-existent companies to people who have a
few dollars that you'd like to covert to yours.

I'll match thirty years of increasing responsibility at a NYC based wirehouse to your penny stock career all day long.

My shoulders are as broad as my career--I'm fully capable of advising
anybody about anything.  Including the dead end job known as being
a career producer.

Starka's picture
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Atta boy, ClerkBoy!  If you're going to fantasize, do it big!

Mr Magnificent's picture
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so any insight? 

Put Trader's picture
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Mr Magnificent wrote:dc,md,va area

Willing to relocate to New York?

If not you're going to find opportunities with sell side firms--other than selling--to be practically nill.

Buy side firms may be interested in your skill set if you're strong in
the analysis disciplines--but that's going to mean you've got advanced
degrees, high GPA, proper major and a host of other qualities to make
it through the hiring screens.

When it comes to Wall Street careers there is no better place than right here in Gotham.

Mr Magnificent's picture
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I'm asking this because i'm getting the calls....  UBS, Legg, NY Life etc...  Just want to make sure when I do get in,  I walk through the right door.

Put Trader's picture
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Mr Magnificent wrote:dc,md,va area

You know where you might find an open door right there in your neighborhood?

At the NASD--mostly in Rockville,but also in the district.  Lots
of jobs, lots of upward mobility and if you play your hand right you
can move from there into "The Street" in a role that will be both
interesting and rewarding.

There is nothing less interesting than being a broker.  You spend
an entire lifetime doing the same thing--day after day, week after
week, year after year.

It's no wonder so many of the losers who get stuck on the treadmill
hate those of us who had enough foresight to accept an offer to do more
interesting things when the offer came along.

It's no wonder they develop angry personalities.

Mr Magnificent's picture
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thanks

Mojo's picture
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Joined: 2005-06-14

Put Trader wrote:  I was one of twenty-two who were brought to
New York for sixteen weeks of training. We were lodged in an apartment
hotel, two guys to a suite. It was one of the most enjoyable, and
meaningful, experiences of my life.

Mr. Magnificent, please rent the dvd "Midnight Cowboy."

(Option Two notes: Putsy, this mentoring of a young protege @ the same
hotel-apartment where you experienced one of your first joys has the
love angle we needed. Now, I know my extincts were right about you. You
are certainly one get down on your knees and pray for miracles while
you evangelize the flock, Mother (Royally speaking).

Mr Magnificent's picture
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thanks Mojo I will.  Like I said getting alot of call backs wanna make good choices.

Put Trader's picture
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Mojo wrote:
Now, I know my extincts were right about you.

Instincts, Mojo, instincts.  You have none so it's no wonder you didn't know.

Tell me something Mr. Forex.  If you can con somebody into giving
you $10,000 to "speculate" on foreign exchange rates do you simply send
him confirms and keep all the money--or do you actually put it at risk
then tell him it was lost.

Starka's picture
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How does it feel to aspire to uselessness and do it so well, ClerkBoy? 

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:How does it feel to aspire to uselessness and do it so well, ClerkBoy? 

Ah, clever Starka, very very clever.

Mojo's picture
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Extincts works as well. It's my artsy-fartsy made-up talk. I am
pitching the idea with some jurassic themes..you see the delicate
pastiches I am weaving. You are my archetype for a Financial Life
without Meaning. I am penning the phrase "Zero-worship" and you are my
new complex, Putsy.

(Did you actually think spelling would be an area where you could find some sanctuary?)

Put Trader's picture
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Mojo wrote:Extincts works as well. It's my artsy-fartsy made-up talk. I am
pitching the idea with some jurassic themes..you see the delicate
pastiches I am weaving. You are my archetype for a Financial Life
without Meaning. I am penning the phrase "Zero-worship" and you are my
new complex, Putsy.

(Did you actually think spelling would be an area where you could find some sanctuary?)

You know something Mojo?  I didn't expect anything except a lie from a professional liar.

The idea that you'd claim that you wanted to use an adjective in place of a noun is not unexpected.

My instincts are that your ethics are extinct--if you ever had them in the first place.

It is my experience that guys like you didn't really have a role model
so you became a con man because you didn't know any better.

Is that what happened to you?  No man in your life so you drifted
to the lowest common denominator in our society, or did your father
actually encourage you to set your moral compass on sociopathic?

Starka's picture
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Yup.
Put a quarter in the slot and play "ClerkBoy".
We own you, chump.

Mojo's picture
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Put Trader wrote:  
The idea that you'd claim that you wanted to use an adjective in place of a noun is not unexpected.

Option Two notes: Cut to scene where Put as a child stands in the
shadow of his mothers skirt as Father goes to soldier men. Mother leans
over with face inches from sons nose and sugar-coatedly warns "You,
will not grow up to be that kind of actionable verb. I don't want you
to be an adjective. Hear me, boy? I want you to be Transactionally
Analytic."

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:Yup.
Put a quarter in the slot and play "ClerkBoy".
We own you, chump.

In your world, where lies are truths, down is up, wrong is right.

But in the world of decent human beings there will never be room for those of your ilk.

I'll cast my lot with the decent folks who I encounter in the real
world and continue to point to those of your ilk as everything the rest
of us never want to become.

Those of us who have self respect, a moral compass, and an actual
career don't get those of you who are 180 degrees out of synch with our
reality but we do know you exist.

Starka's picture
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LOL...self-deluded, as always!

Mojo's picture
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He's certainly submerged without any guidance. The pressure on the hull
has got to be worthy of an opera. Something Teutonic. Wagoner? (O2
notes: German name for documentary - Das Put)

I'll give you some ammo Putsy. I am off to see Tower of Power open up for the one and only Herr Tom Jones.

Put Trader's picture
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Mojo wrote:
I am off to see Tower of Power open up for the one and only Herr Tom Jones.

That's one of the bad things about living in New York, you never get to
see somebody of Tom Jone's stature--or to go to such nice places as
downtown Oakland.

Starka's picture
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It's worth it to not have to share space with someone as contemptible as yourself.

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:It's worth it to not have to share space with someone as contemptible as yourself.

One wonders what you find to be contemptible?

No doubt you resent my success--but that's not a good definition of contemptible.

No doubt you resent my "outing" you as a penny stock whore--but that makes you contemptible, not me.

The truth be told, there's not a single thing about me that's
contemptible.  Instead I'm exceptionally experienced, relatively
accomplished and wonderfully articulate.

Lots of adjectives apply to me, but contemptible is not one of them.

Player's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-08

Go to Edward Jones, they have THE BEST TRAINING, learn everything you can!
When you can produce atleast 250K GROSS, then head out to an INDY Firm as fast as you can............
Why would anyone that can produce, stay for a 38% payout, when as an INDY you can get 60% or more payout ?  But to start out go to Edward Jones

Starka's picture
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Contemptible, despicable, failure-prone, racist, sexist, narcissistic, delusional, incompetent, oh the list goes on concerning adjectives applicable to you, ClerkBoy.  You're nothing, and you just can't stand it.  So you must make pathetic attempts to demean your betters. 
Tragic.  Very sad.  To think with all of your supposed connections you could have risen to the level of mediocre, given your intelligence.  All wasted.  Very sad.
Oh, by the way.  I still own you.

Put Trader's picture
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Player wrote:Go to Edward Jones, they have THE BEST TRAINING, learn everything you can!
When you can produce atleast 250K GROSS, then head out to an INDY Firm as fast as you can............
Why would anyone that can produce, stay for a 38% payout, when as an
INDY you can get 60% or more payout ?  But to start out go to Edward Jones

Let's see if I have this right.

If I'm doing $250,000 at Merrill I can earn 38% or $95,000 but if I go
to an "Indy" firm I can earn $150,000.  Why that's $55,000 more
than I would make at Merrill!

But I have to pay the other half of my FICA; I don't have a 401(k)
match; I have to pay my own phone bill; I have to pay for my own lease;
I have to pay for my own health insurance; I have to pay for my own
office; and I have to pay for my own assistant.

And that's just what I could think of at this early moment.  I may
be wrong--but it would be fun to read how I'm going to pay for all of
those things without reducing my share of the $150,000 to less than
$95,000.

You know--even if I kept 100% of the $250,000 I think there's a good
chance that I'd spend more than $150,000 per year on all those things.

Starka's picture
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Pig headed and misinformed as usual, ClerkBoy.

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:Pig headed and misinformed as usual, ClerkBoy.

Poor Starka, he can only muster monosylabic words, and very few of them at a time.

If he had an IQ higher than the room temperature he'd be able to debunk
what I have to say instead of simply sneering that I am wrong.

Starka's picture
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If you keep your room at 151 degrees F, you're right.  If not, ~sigh~, ignorant and misinformed, as usual, ClerkBoy.

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:If you keep your room at 151 degrees F, you're
right.  If not, ~sigh~, ignorant and misinformed, as usual,
ClerkBoy.

Ooh, you know how to use that funky key in the upper left hand corner of a keyboard, the ~ key.

That's very impressive--pretty soon you'll be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Now, why not attempt to incorporate that as you debunk what I have to say?

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OK.
ClerkBoy, if it cost you more than $150,000.00 to run an office with revenues of $250,000, you're either a liar (a strong possibility) or a complete moron (a strong fact), and complete morons are rare.
Therein endeth the lesson.

Put Trader's picture
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Starka wrote:OK.
ClerkBoy, if it cost you more than $150,000.00 to run an office with
revenues of $250,000, you're either a liar (a strong possibility) or a
complete moron (a strong fact), and complete morons are rare.
Therein endeth the lesson.

I have never done it, so it's impossible that I'm a liar.  I am also anything but a moron.

What I said was that I believe it is possible to spend $150,000 to keep
an office, with an employee, open.  There is rent, utilitiies,
salary, supplies, FICA, insurances, the list is quite long.

Try again Starka--you're proving yourself to be a lightweight with
nothing but sneering comments.  Give me an idea of how I can run
an office for an entire year for less than $150,000.

Starka's picture
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Yes, you are a moron.  The problem from your perspective is that you're the only one that doesn't know it.

babbling looney's picture
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Give me an idea of how I can run an office for an entire year for less than $150,000.
Not everyone lives in expensive urban areas with their corresponding expensive rents,wages and cost of living.  Many successful advisors choose to live and work in more rural/suburban retirement destinations.  Granted my clienetele is somewhat short in the age 20 to 35 demographics, but I think I make up for it with the age 45 to 80+ affluent retirees.  The thinking that there are more opportunities in the "cities" merely because there are more people is not always true.  (Digressing briefly into political area here...sorry)  Many advisors from the Blue enclaves look at "rednecks" and "red states" as nuckle dragging neanderthals and a vast cultural wasteland.  Too bad. Many of my best clients are ranchers and farmers, who to look at, you wouldn't think have two cents to rub together, however they are mutli millionaires and loyal clients.
I listed in another post my bare bones overhead (without employee at this time) as approximately 18K a year.  Even if I pad it out by 100% to 36K and add an employee, who at current wages in this area would be thrilled to have a salary of 24K a year, I am still far below your 150K mark.    Sure I could spend 150K to have an office, but it would be overkill.  Granted I am not a million dollar producer, but I don't need to be to live a million dollar lifestyle.  It is all relevant to  your circumstances and level of need/greed.  I am happy with mine.

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Put Trader wrote: 
But I have to pay the other half of my FICA; I don't have a 401(k)
match; I have to pay my own phone bill; I have to pay for my own lease;
I have to pay for my own health insurance; I have to pay for my own
office; and I have to pay for my own assistant. 

Pu+sy, there's something strange about this comment.

I am going to be in NYC next week P-boy. Three stops and a show (I can
still get an extra ticket, unfortunately ~cough~ it'll most likely be o
solo mio for you). I'll be hanging out at a "Long House" on the
westside (go go gadget...good look house-dick even the kids from Carmen
San Diego would solve this one).

Duke#1's picture
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Put, as Babbling L points out there are a lot of variables in costs in running an office, with the biggest two being rent and staff.  But, regardless, the ecomomics for someone doing $200k gross do work out as an indy, unless they're throwing money out the window (or perhaps are in a high rent/cost area like NYC). 
While I personally feel (and I know many indies can rightly disagree based on their personal experiences) that a $200k solo indy producer is not going to net meaningfully more than being at Merrill (assuming they're "doing it right" by having a good office and an assistant and they're not in a lower cost of living area - but that's a personal choice), there's at least two things you're missing. 
One is that one beauty of our business is that costs are relatively fixed regardless of production.  So for sake of example/argument, let's say that that $200k producer goes indy and his/her net is a wash with being at Merrill.  The very next dollar of payout above $200k is pure pre-tax incremental profit in their pocket.  So, as that rep goes to $250k, $350k, etc., the margins widen considerably because their costs are fixed.  So, if they were break-even vs Merrill at $200k, when they grow to $300k they're making a net of $80k/yr more than at Merrill (assuming 80% indy payout after ticket charges).  And the numbers keep growing from there.
Secondly, you're missing that for many indies the business economics are not the sole driving point.  As an indy, I'm running my own show.  I don't have a Branch Manager or other corporate types trying to impose his will on how I do my business.  I don't have silly mandatory weekly sales meetings.  I can hire an assistant of my choosing who is solely dedicated to my business (instead of that poor Merrill rep who's sharing an assistant with 2 or 3 other guys).  The moment I became indy I have an asset on my balance sheet (my book) that I didn't have at Merrill. I can design a retirement/benefits program that is tailored to my needs, rather than being stuck with a shoehorn into what Merrill provides.  I can hire & supervise other reps & get an override. The list goes on.
Merrill will continue to take 60% of my production and I have no control over that, even for larger producers (do you really think the $600k Merrill might keep on a $1mm producer is giving that rep $600k of value?).  Yes, some of that goes to my benefit (an office, assistant help, phone, etc.), but the lion's share of that is paying for overhead that doesn't directly benefit me (branch manager's salary/bonus, regional manager salary/bonus, training programs for rookies, up-front deals to recruit other reps, etc., etc.).  As an indy, I control what I do with my money, instead of Merrill arbitrarily keeping 60%.  I can make my own business decisions on what and how I choose to spend my money.  If I want an office in a class A high-rise furnished with antiques, that's my choice.  If I want to buy my own office building/condo as an investment, that's my choice.  If I want to rent an executive suite or storefront, that's my choice.
In sum, Put, you're being myopic in your analysis.

Put Trader's picture
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Duke#1 wrote:In sum, Put, you're being myopic in your analysis.

Or maybe I know exactly what it's all about and am simply acting as the ringmaster.

The boys and girls should note that Duke actually wrote many words in a
coherent format--unlike Mojo who has yet to form a meaningful sentence
or Starka who cannot seem to get past sneering.

Dewey Cheatham's picture
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babbling looney wrote:
Give me an idea of how I can run an office for an entire year for less than $150,000.
Not everyone lives in expensive urban areas with their corresponding expensive rents,wages and cost of living.  Many successful advisors choose to live and work in more rural/suburban retirement destinations.  Granted my clienetele is somewhat short in the age 20 to 35 demographics, but I think I make up for it with the age 45 to 80+ affluent retirees.  The thinking that there are more opportunities in the "cities" merely because there are more people is not always true.  (Digressing briefly into political area here...sorry)  Many advisors from the Blue enclaves look at "rednecks" and "red states" as nuckle dragging neanderthals and a vast cultural wasteland.  Too bad. Many of my best clients are ranchers and farmers, who to look at, you wouldn't think have two cents to rub together, however they are mutli millionaires and loyal clients.
I listed in another post my bare bones overhead (without employee at this time) as approximately 18K a year.  Even if I pad it out by 100% to 36K and add an employee, who at current wages in this area would be thrilled to have a salary of 24K a year, I am still far below your 150K mark.    Sure I could spend 150K to have an office, but it would be overkill.  Granted I am not a million dollar producer, but I don't need to be to live a million dollar lifestyle.  It is all relevant to  your circumstances and level of need/greed.  I am happy with mine.

 
Nothing like having a farmer with 200 acres, no mortgage, no revolving debt, 10-99 shows him making 10k, although his actual income is closer to 200k.

Mojo's picture
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Mojo wrote:
Put Trader wrote: 
But I have to pay the other half of my FICA; I don't have a 401(k)
match; I have to pay my own phone bill; I have to pay for my own lease;
I have to pay for my own health insurance; I have to pay for my own
office; and I have to pay for my own assistant. 

Pu+sy, there's something strange about this comment.

The other day, I let it slide when you wiffed the pension fund analogy.
The above freudian slip is the type of comment a 10-20-30 year vet
wouldn't make, unless, their earning potential was very low 6-figure.
Put, are you contending that a 401k match is something that anyone
earning over 250k (let alone 100k) would consider as a factor (asset of
liability vanilla-p?) of the fulcrum for finding the tipping point of
an Indy exit strategy or to be strong  "golden handcuffs?" 
This is high comedy. Good show, Sir Loin.

Starka's picture
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Put Trader wrote: Duke#1 wrote:
In sum, Put, you're being myopic in your analysis.
Or maybe I know exactly what it's all about and am simply acting as the ringmaster.The boys and girls should note that Duke actually wrote many words in a coherent format--unlike Mojo who has yet to form a meaningful sentence or Starka who cannot seem to get past sneering.
But you see ClerkBoy, you never post anything worthy of more than a sneer.  All you are to me is an amusement.  Nothing more!
So jump up on your soap box and bleat for us!

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Put Trader wrote: Duke#1 wrote:
In sum, Put, you're being myopic in your analysis.
Or maybe I know exactly what it's all about and am simply acting as the ringmaster.The boys and girls should note that Duke actually wrote many words in a coherent format--unlike Mojo who has yet to form a meaningful sentence or Starka who cannot seem to get past sneering.
You may think you know what it's all about, but that's not the reality.  You've been stuck in the "employee" side of our industry all your career, most of it being clouded by being management.  You may think you know what independence is all about, but you've never been there and its evident by the blinders that are steering your comments.  I've spent about an equal time of my career on both sides of the business (NYSE regional & wirehouse vs independence).  I've "been there, done that", and you haven't.   The validity of your observations about independence vs wirehouse would be as valid as if I started preaching about sophisticated options strategies simply because I read a good book or two.
Instead of pontificating from a postition of ingnorance I think you could be well served by being open-minded and learning from what many post on these forums.

josephjones107's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-20

This business is only for those who want to make a real lot of money and work incredibly hard...there are way too many brokers (especially at Jones) only making 60k per yr and starting at zero each month....you could make 60k per yr at a regular job and not have to go through 1/10th of the stress

Mojo's picture
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Joined: 2005-06-14

Mojo wrote:
Mojo wrote:
Put Trader wrote: 
But I have to pay the other half of my FICA; I don't have a 401(k)
match; I have to pay my own phone bill; I have to pay for my own lease;
I have to pay for my own health insurance; I have to pay for my own
office; and I have to pay for my own assistant. 

Pu+sy, there's something strange about this comment.

The other day, I let it slide when you wiffed the pension fund analogy.
The above freudian slip is the type of comment a 10-20-30 year vet
wouldn't make, unless, their earning potential was very low 6-figure.
Put, are you contending that a 401k match is something that anyone
earning over 250k (let alone 100k) would consider as a factor (asset of
liability vanilla-p?) of the fulcrum for finding the tipping point of
an Indy exit strategy or to be strong  "golden handcuffs?" 
This is high comedy. Good show, Sir Loin.

I am sprechen Deutche und gooz schtepping to some Wagner-styled music
(I think it's the Panamanian National Anthem). Please reply mien
Ubermensch. Only you can annihilate the nihilist.

       Out, out brief candle!
       Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
       That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
       And then is heard no more; it is a tale
       Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
       Signifying nothing.  Shakespeare's Macbeth (Act 5, Scene 5)

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