Oh yeah, this same client was convinced by his Ameriprise guy to convert his IRA to a ROTH last year. Not a bad idea, BUT they liquidated the Riversource funds, converted the IRA to a ROTH, and REBOUGHT more Riversource funds at a full sales charge! I am not making that up. Despicable.

In my opinion, this really weakens your argument. I know an RIA who pulled all his clients into cash in 2001 and left it there for four years. A Merrill guy was hosing his client for about 5% a year in fees by churning. A gal at Ameriprise was jamming annuities at IRAs and there was a big lawsuit. Over at Jones, and advisor never called her client for four years after 9/11. An LPL guy I know is a snake.  Waddell - Lincoln? Never had a complaint.

[quote=vbrainy]

DON'T LISTEN TO THIS PERSON, IT HAS TO BE A AMERIPRISE MOLE OR AN AMERIPRISE RECRUITER.  JUST GO TO AMEXSUX.COM AND YOU WILL GET ALL OF THE INFORMATION YOU NEED.

[/quote]

I try not to resort to ad hominem, but you're an idiot. 

Good job on not refuting anything I wrote.   

It's very obvious to me that you're a failed Ameriprise advisor who got another job in the industry (it's not hard if you have a series 7 and insurance license), and now you love to blame your failure on a previous employer.  Good luck with that.

And no, I'm not a "mole" or "recruiter".  I'm a P2 advisor.

"amexsux" will teach you "everything you need to know"?  Yeah, look at how you turned out.  

I have personal experience with Ameriprise, I worked there for 7 years. There is a significant difference between P1 & P2 guys. P2 guys are fairly independent although they are induced to sell a number of financial plans ($450+) in order to meet their score card numbers. 

If you're not P2 don't be fooled, when I worked there you sold everyone a financial plan for $450+ followed by a canned presentation  for VUL, front load funds, and idiotic "certificates" for their cash reserves. Everybody pretty much received the same speel and as a P1 you either did it or you were out within a year.

[quote=GolFA]

Oh yeah, this same client was convinced by his Ameriprise guy to convert his IRA to a ROTH last year. Not a bad idea, BUT they liquidated the Riversource funds, converted the IRA to a ROTH, and REBOUGHT more Riversource funds at a full sales charge! I am not making that up. Despicable.

In my opinion, this really weakens your argument. I know an RIA who pulled all his clients into cash in 2001 and left it there for four years. A Merrill guy was hosing his client for about 5% a year in fees by churning. A gal at Ameriprise was jamming annuities at IRAs and there was a big lawsuit. Over at Jones, and advisor never called her client for four years after 9/11. An LPL guy I know is a snake.  Waddell - Lincoln? Never had a complaint.

[/quote]

They did the sell, the move, and the re-buy within a week. It wasn't like he went to cash as a defensive move.  I actuall saw an Ameriprise conversion form that made the client check the "don't sell my assets" box, or all of their assets would be sold before the conversion. I think they have changed that now, but that is just crazy.

As for your propietary comment, Jones doesn't have any proprietary products. If you can hold it at Jones, you can pretty much hold it somehwere else. So, I would recommend starting at Jones versus Amex. At least if you do leave, you can move your clients without having to liquidate everything.

[quote=Charlie Brown]

I have personal experience with Ameriprise, I worked there for 7 years. There is a significant difference between P1 & P2 guys. P2 guys are fairly independent although they are induced to sell a number of financial plans ($450+) in order to meet their score card numbers. 

If you're not P2 don't be fooled, when I worked there you sold everyone a financial plan for $450+ followed by a canned presentation  for VUL, front load funds, and idiotic "certificates" for their cash reserves. Everybody pretty much received the same speel and as a P1 you either did it or you were out within a year.

[/quote]

I've said it before on this site, I don't like P1, and feel that any blemishes on the Ameriprise brand comes mostly from that platform.  That said, what national brokerage can you start at and not be pushed to sell!, sell!, sell! ?  Seriously, what garbage gets sold at a bank, wirehouse, indy, insurance company, etc. just because someone is a trainee who needs to keep his job?  I don't like it at all, but it's not an AMP specific issue.

What's good that I've seen so far, is that AMP has been pushing its Associate Financial Advisor program, which pairs new advisors with established P2s as an apprentice type relationship.  Then they can take over the part of the book that the P2 doesn't want, and not have the conflict of interest as much to build a book from scratch and not starve to death in the process.

All of us who've been around for a little while see the statements from other firms and think: "what a ripoff".  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Usually, if you're looking at statements from other firms, something's not being done right in the first place.  Time to point out any flaws with a cert, or mutual fund, REIT, insurance policy you can think of (I know I do). 

Time to create urgency to move assets.  'Sign here, that AMP guy's no good'... after a while, you may start believing that local Smith Barney or Ed Jones, or the life insurance guy are just out for themselves, or are incompetent.  That's fine, but probably not true.  In some cases, you could even be screwing up an appropriate strategy, because you don't really understand it as an outsider looking in.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Big Taco]

I try not to resort to ad hominem, but you're an idiot. 

Good job on not refuting anything I wrote.   

[/quote]

Go easy on him Taco.  He's too stupid to understand that there is a HUGE diff between P1 and P2(indy) advisers.  I'm no amex fan, but I certainly realize the distinction.
[/quote]

Point taken.

Good points. I realize Jones or any start is tough, heck, I'm recruiting Jones reps. But they seem to be a fair outfit, and should be respected.

I would hope compliance would ensure an in-kind transfer on A share conversions, what client would refuse the option.

The thing that interests me about Ameriprise is, they staunchly defend the right to sell annuities, annuities inside IRAs, VUL, plans - there must be lobbyists in DC, and a ton of disclosure.

While everyone needs to make up their own mind, don't think that strategy should be condemned per se.

Here, Bobby represents a kind of straight viewpoint, a baseline to any hypocracy that exist in terms of how we all get paid or even our planning strategies - we may not agree, but we are all professionals.

In other words, if Bobby were to turn his nose up at all Ameriprise reps, or even Ameriprise as a company, because they sell proprietary products but he offers a lot of choice, and then Allreit, who is not even licensed to sell insurance, comes in and makes a moral argument about how only RIAs are objective, and Bobby is a schmuck, and so on, really all just based on some kind of moral relativism, well, I think we degrade ourselves as professionals.

We can all hold our viewpoints and still respect each other.

I had a religious studies professor in college who taught many religions, but said you ultimately had to affirm yours above all others to find meaning. But in order to find meaning, you have to respect teh other viewpoints.  

I think Napolean Hill would call that transformation, and what it can do for our businesses is exciting.

Not trying to sound heavy, just trying to communicate my conclusion after a lot of soul searching about where I want to take my business.

I don't think anyone has to give up their moral or professional beliefs, rather, in this case, entertain the notion that with proper disclosure and oversight of reps, a company has the right to manufacture proprietary products and promote those products in an ethical manner.

Not putting your clients into proprietary products so you can be free to move your book just sounds like good business, so maybe the guy at the head of the string here should have joined Jones. But he should be very careful to think for himself about the reality of the ethics of the right to sell proprietary products in any industry, and especially this one, since so much of the so-called altruistic concern for getting out of certain products or having choices is really about getting paid. Allreit is the best example here regarding someone who is selling  that little "moral crusade."

As if the media isn't selling us a big " no load " and " effect of fees " story that is a big disconnect with how we all apply broad finanical planning principals and experience to create wealth for our clients, many of whom would otherwise not be winners in the race for financial security.

And I get the impression that Big Taco is a respectable fellow. Since he is respectable, we should at least test the idea that his affiliate is fundamentally respectable, since it is subject to the same scutiny and regulation of all broker dealers. Not saying to overlook history, but who amongst large broker dealers shall cast the first stone?

[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=GolFA]

Oh yeah, this same client was convinced by his Ameriprise guy to convert his IRA to a ROTH last year. Not a bad idea, BUT they liquidated the Riversource funds, converted the IRA to a ROTH, and REBOUGHT more Riversource funds at a full sales charge! I am not making that up. Despicable.

In my opinion, this really weakens your argument. I know an RIA who pulled all his clients into cash in 2001 and left it there for four years. A Merrill guy was hosing his client for about 5% a year in fees by churning. A gal at Ameriprise was jamming annuities at IRAs and there was a big lawsuit. Over at Jones, and advisor never called her client for four years after 9/11. An LPL guy I know is a snake.  Waddell - Lincoln? Never had a complaint.

[/quote]

Why does it make you so angry that people put annuities in IRA's? Do you advise your clients not to insure their homes, cars, and lives? More people have lost money in the stock market than have lost their homes due to a catastrophy. How do you reconcile this, asshole?

[/quote]

Bobby, if review any posting where I mentioned you, I respected you.

So I take your name calling to be in the Tony Soprano sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll just ignore you forever.

So, over time, I have move from strongly opposing the concept of annuities in IRAs, to not condemning those who do.

By the way, in an earlier post you made it sound like you thought a guy was a sucker for inheriting such accounts. I don't get your thinking, but I'm still open minded about you. Please don't remove all doubt. An apology for calling me an a****** would be a good start, if you are capable. If not, I have a pretty good idea of the type of person you might be.  

[quote=GolFA][quote=Bobby Hull][quote=GolFA]

Oh yeah, this same client was convinced by his Ameriprise guy to convert his IRA to a ROTH last year. Not a bad idea, BUT they liquidated the Riversource funds, converted the IRA to a ROTH, and REBOUGHT more Riversource funds at a full sales charge! I am not making that up. Despicable.

In my opinion, this really weakens your argument. I know an RIA who pulled all his clients into cash in 2001 and left it there for four years. A Merrill guy was hosing his client for about 5% a year in fees by churning. A gal at Ameriprise was jamming annuities at IRAs and there was a big lawsuit. Over at Jones, and advisor never called her client for four years after 9/11. An LPL guy I know is a snake.  Waddell - Lincoln? Never had a complaint.

[/quote]

Why does it make you so angry that people put annuities in IRA's? Do you advise your clients not to insure their homes, cars, and lives? More people have lost money in the stock market than have lost their homes due to a catastrophy. How do you reconcile this, asshole?

[/quote]

Bobby, if review any posting where I mentioned you, I respected you.

So I take your name calling to be in the Tony Soprano sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll just ignore you forever.

So, over time, I have move from strongly opposing the concept of annuities in IRAs, to not condemning those who do.

By the way, in an earlier post you made it sound like you thought a guy was a sucker for inheriting such accounts. I don't get your thinking, but I'm still open minded about you. Please don't remove all doubt. An apology for calling me an a****** would be a good start, if you are capable. If not, I have a pretty good idea of the type of person you might be.  

[/quote]

I'm tired of ignorant people and their contempt prior to investigation. I apologize for calling you an asshole. Please help me out by not being one.

[quote=joedabrkr]

[quote=Big Taco]

I try not to resort to ad hominem, but you’re an idiot. 

Good job on not refuting anything I wrote.   

Gotstabnoel-

I worked at AMEX for close to 6 years, licensed, but not a Financial Advisor. I have worked for the last 4 years at a bank.  I have talked to Financial Advisors for about 9 years/ 40 hours a week.

You mentioned in your post that your bank doesn't pay for sponsorship. Would you want to work there? At the bank that I work for, we do not hire FA's unless they have been in the biz for 2 years. What is your bank's policy?

I felt the need to "but" into this thread because Ameriprise was being slammed. It is by no means perfect, but I feel it presents a fair opportunity. Some of the bank reps that I work for are some of the most likable people in the world, but they can be lazy/lack desire for product knowledge compared to an Ameriprise FA.  Also, there are a lot of different channels and flexibility for FA's that the bank may not offer.

However, if you like the bank environment, don't leave. Perhaps you need to interview with more banks.

I did an internship for Ameriprise before graduating and accepting my position with a wirehouse.  I interviewed for the p1 platform, a position with my current (p2) advisor-boss, and the wirehouse job.  Here are my thoughts (I am 23, have 4mm AUM with 1.5mm in fee-based accounts):

The p1 platform at Ameriprise stinks.  I believe that when I was hired there they had not actually ever graduated a broker through it (this COULD be totally BS but I think there is some merit in it).  I think this platform focuses a bit too much on the ‘fishbowl’ marketing scheme and utilizing your ‘natural market’ (read: Friends and Family).  My problem with these two avenues is that 1, you don’t get NEARLY the number of contacts you probably need to be successful and 2, I think your first 2 months in the business is the exact WRONG time to call your best friends’ parents for money.

The p2 platform, from my experience, appears to be decent to good.  I base this on the fact that you do build equity in your book (in fact my old boss was a huge buyer of books) and that there don’t seem to be many incentives to do a certain kind of business.  I have to agree with Taco here that he really can do any kind of business he wants (although I would say that the vast majority of even p2 advisors, in practice focus on the insurance side of the business and use average fund managers for the rest). 

All that being said, I think if you want to survive in the Ameriprise system your best bet is seek out a p2 advisor and throw yourself at him/her.

The wirehouses will ask you to cold call for medium sized accounts, put them into managed accounts, and repeat.  In my estimation, while this business model might not be totally free of conflicts-of-interest, it does represent the fewest and the best opportunity to excel in this business and help people.

That is my 2 cents that is probably really worthless, sorry for asking you to read it.

Oh yeah and I don’t believe that age thing at all.  I team up with older advisors daily and in a significant amount of cases, I find the prospect making eye contact only with me and speaking directly to me despite the fact that I look like I am 16.  If you act the part, you are simply a young hot-shot who everyone wants to grab a piece of on his/her rise to stardum.

[quote=drewski803]Oh yeah and I don’t believe that age thing at
all.  I team up with older advisors daily and in a significant
amount of cases, I find the prospect making eye contact only with me
and speaking directly to me despite the fact that I look like I am
16.  If you act the part, you are simply a young hot-shot who
everyone wants to grab a piece of on his/her rise to stardum. [/quote]



I’m sure everybody wants to grab a piece of an up and comming life insurance agent.

[quote=AllREIT] [quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Big Taco]

I try not to resort to ad hominem, but you're an idiot. 

Good job on not refuting anything I wrote.   

[/quote]

Go easy on him Taco.  He's too stupid to understand that there is a HUGE diff between P1 and P2(indy) advisers.  I'm no amex fan, but I certainly realize the distinction.
[/quote]

That's all well and good, but the antics of the P1 platform give the P2 advisors a bad name. And a fair number of x-P1's moving into the P2 platform continue the problem.


[/quote]

That's silly.  Mostly market forces will incent business owners (P2) to be good stewards of their business, and keep clients happy, and grow a good business that will look attractive to a buyer someday (part of their retirement packages).

With the P1s or newbies who go into P2 as an Associate FA, they should have incentive to be good stewards as future buyers of these senior FA's practices... And, the P2 advisors that spent so many years busting their butts to build businesses should be watching their Associates to make sure they're not doing anything detrimental to their firms.

It's not like most FAs who comes out of P1 are screaming convicts.  To advocate this viewpoint is like saying that every FA from every FA training program will hurt their clients, and eventually tarnish their firms reputation.

[quote]It's not like most FAs who comes out of P1 are screaming convicts.  To advocate this viewpoint is like saying that every FA from every FA training program will hurt their clients, and eventually tarnish their firms reputation.[/quote]

[quote=AllREIT]

[quote]It's not like most FAs who comes out of P1 are screaming convicts.  To advocate this viewpoint is like saying that every FA from every FA training program will hurt their clients, and eventually tarnish their firms reputation.[/quote]

That's not too far from the truth.

Taco you are missing the point that I'm making.

I'm sure the P2 advisors do a fine job by their clients, but the brand they operate under is tarnished by the VUL pushing P1's.

I've heard a fair number of AMP horror stories, that were done at the P1 level.

This is like Red China and Hong Kong. Two systems, One flag.

[/quote]

I think I get it. 

Everyone in Red China and P1 are guilty by association because of some stories you heard.  Furthermore, whenever someone from the mainland China visits Hong Kong, or whenever someone from P1 goes P2, everyone's reputation gets tarnished.

I interned for a P2 advisor with Amex before they were Ameriprise when I was in college.  For someone new in this business it was a good education in time management, forming a business model, client segmentation, etc.  At the time, this guy was their #2 producer in California.  Ameriprise is quite content to cater to non-affluent individuals unlike ML, MS, or the likes.  ML is unlikely to hire someone fresh outta college with little experience as they’re really seeking seasoned professionals networked in affluent circles.  Best of luck.

Ameriprise is where you go if and only if you cannot get an offer from a decent firm.  NOBODY goes from ML, SB, AGE, LPL, RJ to Ameriprise.  They do not treat their advisors or their clients very well.

[quote=Big Taco]

I am an Ameriprise franchisee.  I like the culture and platform.  sounds like you're starting out on the "trainee" platform, called P1.  If you want a career in this business, stop talking about "enjoying your personal life".  you won't have one for 3 years.  see if you can hack it, then start your own office, or franchise on the P2 platform.  you'll own your business and client base, unlike many shops out there, and can sell it someday.  I don't like P1, but you gotta start somewhere, and have a long-term vision.

I read other posts (above) about being "forced" to sell VUL, VA, Mutual Funds.  It's all BS.  Sell whatever is appropriate.  I can sell from a variety of insurance companies, funds, etfs, whatever.  Before the Wach merger, I believe Ameriprise was the 4th largest B/D in the country, so they have a diverse platform of investment offerings.  The only area an Ameriprise Financail advisor is captive is annuities.  But the Riversource variable annuities are less expensive than over 90% of the industry's products (as rated by Morningstar).  You also don't have to sell the in-house mutual funds, nor do you get any extra compensation for doing so.  They're not a substantial part of my fund business, as I don't want to seem like I have a conflict of interest.  But, since the spinoff from AmEx, there's been a lot more of our revenues pumping back into our systems and departments, including hiring good fund management.  Barron's ranked us at #3 for 2006 of 50 fund companies.

Also, you have to get your Series 66 to work at Ameriprise.  This broadens your investment product and service offerings, as you can charge for your advice, set up wrap accounts, etc.  From my understanding, many wirehouses and other firms don't want the responsibility of being a B/D and an RIA.  I like the asset based fee platform, and it's most of my investment business.

I've noticed that many of the folks that call Ameriprise the "worst" firm (or whatever adjective they use) failed out there, whether they'll admit it or not.  I'm sure this will start some flaming... eh. 

There are other reasons I like Ameriprise, and I have done my due dilligence over the years.  There's an indy platform that I've always liked, but not enough to jump ship.  And ever since the '05 spinoff, this place has gotten much better.  We don't just hand all of our profit to AmEx anymore.  The technology & infrastructure upgrades and platform broadening, leadership and niche identification has been unprecedented.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not you get on this ship or another.  But if you have questions, PM me.[/quote]

Well, glad you're happy.  Ameriprise is better than it was but is still FAR AWAY from their franchise owners like you being an indy.  Riversource is a PROPRIETARY product, something those of us working at indies were trying to get away from.......