3 mo. in....not going to hit q1 requirments....what are the odds i get canned?

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pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

hi all,been visiting here for past month or so. i have found some great advice and ideas. i hope someone can help me out. got my # about 3 mo. ago. 3 days left for the quarter and it doesn't look like i will hit the performance requirment. the uncertainty has KILLED my motivation. i mean, why bust my arse on the phone when my future is so unclear. quick synapse of last 3 mo: i fell flat on my face out of the gate. up until about 5 weeks ago i was avoiding the phones .hated it. mo. 1 i filled my calander with networking events > major time drain and no results. then i spent countless hours planning a seminar that after FINALLY getting approved through complience fell apart at the last minute. as a last resort i turned to the phones. i landed 6 appointments in about 4 weeks. only 2 actually came through, but i ended up with a couple of small accounts. for about the last week i have slowed considerably. no motivation with the impending doom.so does anyone know the uwritten protocol. do you get the pink slip right away or do you get a mulligan here? common sense says that if they put all of the $'s in to train me i wouldn't be so easy to let go, but on the other hand, burn and churn seems to be standard in this biz. the contract says somehting along the lines of there being a possibility for a 3 mo. probationary period in limited circumstances. but that in and of itself is pretty vague. and even if they do give me an extension it only seems to be prolonging the pain since i will be waaaaaaaaaaaaay behind for q2 from the get go. dont get me wrong, if i get the extension i will run with it, but a fresh start somwhere else seems more appealing.any ideas?................thanks guys and gals

iliketennis's picture
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Joined: 2010-08-30

Given the nature of your question, do you think this is the right career for you?

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Why wait for the company to pull the plug.  Save some of your pride, admit this isn't the business for you, and go find somewhere else to make your fortune.  The fact that you hate the phone and evidently all other forms of prospecting means you won't make it anywhere.  If you really want to be in this business, I'd suggest taking a longer route to the FA chair.  Become a licensed assistant, work in a back office, partner with someone. Something besides going at it alone.  There are lots of paths to take to get you where you want to be.  Don't limit yourself to just one.

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

i will assume that you are just playing devils advocate here....so yes, i do and i am committed.maybe you will get this analogy...lets say your a nfl gm. your team went 1-15 last year. you get the #1 draft choice. you take a qb. you pay him $9 mil and give him the lions o-line and calvin johnson and say 'get us into the playoffs this season or you're fired.' after 12 games you're 2-10. now ask yourself this: do you think your qb is ready to go out there next sunday and lay it all on the line. f-nooooo. especially not since his cell is being blown up by the 49ers, cardinals and ny giants (<yes i did), all offerin better deals.deep right? i just want a little certainty here.

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

why wait?...training costs.

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

and the phone doesn't bother me now. as a matter of fact i like it. up front i hated it, but i just needed a little time to figure it out. going forward, the phone will be my main means of prospecting.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

Training costs as in you have to reimburse them for training costs?  You asked what the protocol is.  At Jones, the protocol is if you don't make your numbers, they fire you.  I would assume it works the same way elsewhere.  Jones is pretty forgiving overall.  They'll give you enough rope to hang yourself if you want to.   

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

if you leave or are fired for 'cause' (basically anything other than performance) AND you go to a competitor, they come after you for training costs.

iliketennis's picture
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Joined: 2010-08-30

Your nfl analogy doesn't hold water, because the QB cannot determine the outcome of the games he's in over the course of a season.As an FA, not only can you, but you're expected to determine your own outcome. I am not saying you are not FA material, because I don't know you, but given your lack of initial motivation and further motivational downswings, I would wager that something's going to have to change for you to make it.

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

tennis i disagree. no matter how good i am on the phone i cannot 'determine' the outcome of my activity. i can determine my activity. this is true. but the outcome is something that i cannot determine. i can say and do all of the right things when i get in front of my client but if the d doesnt hold, to return to the anology, i still lose. my activity for the 7-8 weeks was pitiful. that is my fault, but i have finally found a groove. i want to keep banging the phones but moral is low due to uncertainty. why is that so difficult to understand?

BigFirepower's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-09

Just curious Pimp. I see so many folks anxious to get into this biz... Did you just ignore the fact that cold calling is nasty, or was it just so much harder than you actually thought it would be? Literally, every week, some well intentioned sole, comes to this message board, talking about how they want to get into this biz, and they're going to tear it up, can hack the long hours, tons of calls... 

iliketennis's picture
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Joined: 2010-08-30

Not hard to understand at all, but unless you get out of that particular mindset, I don't think you have much of a future in this business.The uncertainty won't go away. 

BigFirepower's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-09

Pimp, in my experience, you are safe AT LEAST until 9mo, most likely more along the lines of 2 years. But, realistically, if you're not doing well (bottom quartile), Or/AND you are a problem person for the office, you'll be out after 12 months. So, you have the time to turn things around. Don't talk about it, DO IT. Your manager has heard the talk a thousand times before...

iliketennis's picture
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Joined: 2010-08-30

Also, your activity levels do determine your outcome. Don't ever fall into "I'm so unlucky" or "They just refuse to buy from me" camp. It's counter productive at best.

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

bfp, i had never cold called in my life so i had no idea what it was like. and through the interview process and 3 months of training no one told me that to make it you had to run around knocking on doors and/or make 150-200 calls a day. so my expections were different. in my biz plan i wanted to focus on networking. no one told me that if you want to hit your q1 #'s that is a foolish idea. but, in reality it is. networking is a much longer sales process. the guys that i started with that are making it brought in family $'s. not me. those are sacred relationships and I wanted to prove to myself that i could make it on my own before i started moving their assets around.

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

I agree with BFP. If you are bangin out the phone calls, you will get a mulligan. Your manager knows it is only a matter of time. Phone calls equals pipeline, pipeline equals orders. If you do the activities you will be successful but it takes time and you are behind by about 3 months. So hike up your skirt and call more than anyone around you.

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

ahhhhhhhhhhh, i see your point now tennis...unertainty every quarter. so i guess i just bury it and assume i will survive. but, man you take the long way to making your point. thanks.bfp, thank you. that is the answer i was looking for. if i am fairly certain that they give me another 3-6 mo i will be a lot more motivated to just keep grinding it out.

BigFirepower's picture
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Pimp, hey, at least you're catching on, being honest with yourself about it. Yeah, networking... I've heard, and learned on my own, that it takes about 3 yrs of being involved with a group before you make any headway at all. Seminars too, fools effort for a newby. You just cannot make enough hay quickly for that to work, and the overhead is intense. Phone...Pimp, would you agree that before anyone takes a job doing this, they should be first asked to make 200 phone calls, just to see what that is like? Wouldn't that save all sorts of time for both applicants and firms??

squash2's picture
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pimpin_aint_easy wrote:tennis i disagree. no matter how good i am on the phone i cannot 'determine' the outcome of my activity. i can determine my activity. this is true. but the outcome is something that i cannot determine. i can say and do all of the right things when i get in front of my client but if the d doesnt hold, to return to the anology, i still lose. my activity for the 7-8 weeks was pitiful. that is my fault, but i have finally found a groove. i want to keep banging the phones but moral is low due to uncertainty. why is that so difficult to understand?Because it is BS... This entire career is based on work ethic and motivation. Comparing this to football is stupid.. you are one person on your own team, not a #1 draft pick qb on a 53 man roster..  A better comparison would be:You run track.. more specifically the 400M.(100M for each year of struggle)..So you had a terrible start and are close to falling down(by stopping your prospecting to weigh your options)...So we know you aren't going to catch the winner, but you have to beat the qualifying time..you have 9 months.. Do you get up and run like hell or fall down and make excuses..PS Qualifying time would be like making it to Year 2.. Miss the qualifying time but come close, try a bank. Miss the time by a lot but have decent backing(assets) go indy..

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

lol...absolutely. 90% would walk out after about 25 calls. that should be an upfront disclosure. and the training was a loooooooooot of bs. my 'coach' had never even cold called in her life. she started as an assistant and inherited a book!

vintalk's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-22

that would be a great idea to tell people upfront what to expect....saves time, costs, energy n just so much better for both parties!am in the same boat 3 months in.....slowly figuring out that cold calling seems to be the only way to go. am not afraid of the phone...but i just wish i knew, i might have had different expectations and a different strategy!now that the panacea seems to be to cold call to save ur ass, I have a question.....i have been scouring the forum for tips n ideas...but what are the best palces to get cold call lists and how cost effective is this approach??

Kletus's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-23

I'm interested to know how much research you did before you entered this profession?  I spent a couple of months doing research before even applied anywhere.   I spoke with FA's from several different firms and they ALL told me how much work I was going to have to do to make it.   Once I decided to make the jump and got the info for the regional VP's of the 2 firms I was interested in... both set up an introductory meeting just to try and scare me out of the industry.    I will be starting next week with one of those firms, and am only at the point of starting to study for the Series 7, but I can't fathom how you actually made it to the point of being a producing advisor without knowing that it was going to take an insane amount of cold calling or cold walking to make it.    From what I can tell... if you go the networking route and are lucky enough to have an EXTREMELY good network then you might make it.    If you go the cold calling/ cold walking route and put in the work, you have a much better chance.As for your current situation:Why are you spending time on here asking permission from us to quit?  YOU have to decide whether you want to be in this industry or not.   If you DO want to be in the industry then get your butt on the phone and do the absolute best job you can do until you either make it or get fired.  If you make it.... AWESOME!   If you get fired..... so be it.   Every one of those contacts that you made while trying to keep your job is a contact that might transfer with you if you go independent or join another firm or bank or whatever.   Just because you don't make it where you are right now doesn't mean that you have no options later.If you DON'T want to stay in the industry then give up and surf the internet, because there is no way your boss will or SHOULD let you keep your job if you aren't trying.I for one would learn from the mistakes I made in the past, bust my butt trying to make the numbers I need, and at the very least...... show my boss that I can learn from my mistakes and put in the effort to make a comeback.

BigFirepower's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-09

Kletus, big mouth, let's see you come back here in 6 months talkin smack like that. We'll remember you...

Kletus's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-23

Where exactly did I talk smack or say I was better than anyone else?   Where did I say I would have any more success than him?I made 2 points:1.  I asked a question about how you can make it to being a producing advisor without knowing you would have to cold call or doorknock.      Every single person I've talked to in the industry has pointed out to me how hard you have to work and what you have to do to succeed.    No trash talk there.. just a question.2.  I told him to make a decision on what he wants to do... not ask others.   You can feel free to read my comments as smack talk or saying I'm better than someone... but that doesn't make it so.  I am fully aware I what I'm getting myself into, what it will take for me to succeed, and what my chances of success are.   Only time will tell if I make it, but it won't be because I just decided not to work anymore and see if I get fired.

JumpMan's picture
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Joined: 2010-06-08

Kletus ... unless you are given $$$ you'll be on your ass in six months.

squash2's picture
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I don't have a problem with Kletus' post.. He did some research about expectations of this job(the other guy should have done some research).Vintalk: Didn't they give you expectations on what number you had to hi... This isn't difficult..

Kletus's picture
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JumpMan wrote:Kletus ... unless you are given $$$ you'll be on your ass in six months. Thanks for your concern, but I'll take my chances.

JumpMan's picture
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I've got no issue with it either, I've just seen guys with his bravdo fall on their face way too often to take them seriously. 

Kletus's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-23

I just think its funny that you have absolutely no clue as to my situation and yet you can determine that I won't be around in 6 months.Will I be here in 6 months....... odds are near 100 percent.... will I be here in 18 months.... an entirely different question altogether.

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Kletus, you can't get any love on either site. I would go back to AH. The atmosphere is more laid back once you learn the secret handshake

vintalk's picture
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Squash 2 - Honestly no! Was hired in my first meeting and most of my interaction began after I joined. Though the nos even if I would have known them would not have bothered me..... My concern is not with hitting the nos....I think its a reasonable ask. My concern is the approach....no one prepared me for what to expect! I was doing this biz in a different environment and cold calling is not what I had to do!I have nothing against cold calling...its just not exactly a skill that 'I' have! I am more a consultative sales person...my approach is not aggressive. So its a harsh realization that I need to go back to the drawing board and reinvent my style if I have to make it in this biz in this place! 

N.D.'s picture
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vintalk wrote:...my approach is not aggressive... it doesn't have to be aggressive, just continuous

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

those are fair questions kletus...yes i did research. i sat with 2 senior vps. they both tried to scare me out of joining....'its haaaaard work. blah, blah, blah.' it's one thing to hear it and another to work your arse off for 3 mo. and end up where i am at now. 150 cold calls a day sound easy until your sitting at your desk, its thursday, 450 calls behind you this week already, 69 in today and you just got hung up on by some righteous jerkoff, no REAL prospects this week and on top of all of that the appointment that you spent 3 hrs preparing for over the weekend cancels on you....you're trying to find every excuse to not throw your phone across the room! they never told me any of that in the interview and i would have to venture that most of the readers in this forum have had weeks like this. all i heard was 'hard work,' and that is something i can handle. this i just something totally different from my version of hard work i guess. then you have to do the same thing friday, and the next week, and the next and... you get the point. you need to be really headstrong to handle this biz. lots of ups and downs.i started out with a well thought out and elaborate biz plan and was priased by the bm and training coach for how nice it looked. its out the window now. dial, dial, dial. that's all.and fyi: i was not looking for advice on what i should do. i just wanted to know what typically happens given my circumstances.

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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BFP - I don't think Kletus was being judgemental, nothing wrong with his comments. I don't think he showed bravado either. He just stated his opinion as it relates to Pimp - his comments had nothing to do with his own chances of success. I give him credit for doing the due dili and knowing what he was getting into.Pimp - You certainly didn't start out on the right foot. Whats done is done, like everyone pretty much said, you need to decide for sure if you want to do this, and if you get fired, you'll have to find another place to do it. But if you are a professional, you won't let the uncertainty get in the way of you doing what needs to get done. Focus focus focus.The football analogy is BS. Mark Sanchez looked horrible last year. Nobody would have blamed the coach if he was forced to sit. He knew it. He knew he was losing games for the team. But he just stayed focused and took to the playoffs and lit up the place.If you do decide to stay in this business, BE A PROFESSIONAL - no excuses, asking for mulligans or other crap. Just do it. Control what you can control. Put the rest out of your mind.

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pimpin_aint_easy wrote:i started out with a well thought out and elaborate biz plan and was priased by the bm and training coach for how nice it looked. its out the window now. dial, dial, dial. that's all.and fyi: i was not looking for advice on what i should do. i just wanted to know what typically happens given my circumstances.you can dial, walk around, bribe your friends and family, whatever it just doesn't matter. The point is you need to find 200 people with an average of 100k to give you. The sooner the better. However you want to do that is up to you. The Judge already showed us the numbers, call 200,000 phone numbers, talk to 20,000 people, set 2000 appointments, get 200 clients. Its as easy or hard as you make it. If you are making the calls your manager will get your back, of course to a point. Remember 200 people with an average of 100k each. Find 100k per week and you will get a second chance.good luck!

SuperMan's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-18

So you think 20mm is a good book?  I'm confussed.

N.D.'s picture
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no no no, 20mm is when you can stop, take a breath and decide how to run YOUR business. Until then, you are just a squirrel looking for another nut and trying to prepare for a cold ass winter.

BigFirepower's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-09

You go to the "traiining class" of ANY program. Every one of those folks, no exception, will adamantly CLAIM that they "did their homework", will be some sort of stand out, know what they are doing, blah, blah, blah... Every time I hear from one of those folks, I'd really like to ask how many cold calls they've ever made... So, with Kletus, seeing him "give advice", to someone that is ACTUALLY in battle, from the safety of some training class, is just a wee bit irritating. Instead, Kletus should learn that what's coming his way, MIGHT, be much harder than he thought, and prepare for it. The many months of study, before you hit the streets, could be spent really getting an exceptional calling list put together. Studying the years of archives here, might not be a bad idea, in the benefit of investigating a small number of successes, amongst a great big sea of failure/failures. Just a word to the wise to the "trainee" class of 4th qtr 2010.... But hey, it's just free advice and all....

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BigFirepower wrote:You go to the "traiining class" of ANY program. Every one of those folks, no exception, will adamantly CLAIM that they "did their homework", will be some sort of stand out, know what they are doing, blah, blah, blah... Every time I hear from one of those folks, I'd really like to ask how many cold calls they've ever made... So, with Kletus, seeing him "give advice", to someone that is ACTUALLY in battle, from the safety of some training class, is just a wee bit irritating. Instead, Kletus should learn that what's coming his way, MIGHT, be much harder than he thought, and prepare for it. The many months of study, before you hit the streets, could be spent really getting an exceptional calling list put together. Studying the years of archives here, might not be a bad idea, in the benefit of investigating a small number of successes, amongst a great big sea of failure/failures. Just a word to the wise to the "trainee" class of 4th qtr 2010.... But hey, it's just free advice and all.... While I understand where you are coming from, I think you need to go back and look at the advice I gave with an unbiased eye.   It doesn't matter whether I have any experience with the finance industry at all... my advice translates to any job.  I may be new to the Finance industry, but I do have 10 years of experience as an engineer (4 as a supervisor as well).  I've dealt with situations like the OP's both from the boss and employee perspective. The OP has three paths he can take:1.   Stop working hard and definitely get fired.2.  Stop working hard, hope he gets an extension, and then be way behind on his goals for his extension.  (In my mind this just leads right back to #1, but I could be wrong.3.  Learn from his past on what HAS and HAS NOT worked for him so far.   Take that knowledge and dedicate himself to doing the absolute best he can with the time he has left.In my humble opinion, #3 is the best option for the following reasons:1.  Regardless of the outcome you have the pride of knowing you didn't give up.2.  You may impress your boss and get that extension you want.3.  You stated you want to stay in the industry... so this is a no pressure way of working on your prospecting so that you hit the ground running at your next job.4.  You just might start a couple of great new relationships that either transfer with you to the next job or become clients when you start your next job. As you can see BFP.....  this advice has absolutely nothing to do with whether I am any good as a financial advisor, whether I'll make it as an FA, or even whether I'll make it through my training.  Its just regular common sense that applies to all industries.  I've lived it and breathed it, which I feel made me qualified to chime in. 

Kletus's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-23

"Kletus should learn that what's coming his way, MIGHT, be much harder
than he thought, and prepare for it. The many months of study, before
you hit the streets, could be spent really getting an exceptional
calling list put together. Studying the years of archives here, might
not be a bad idea, in the benefit of investigating a small number of
successes, amongst a great big sea of failure/failures. Just a word to
the wise to the "trainee" class of 4th qtr 2010" This is actually VERY GOOD advice and I appreciate it.   One of the reasons I come to this forum and the "other" forum is to research the best proven methods that are in use by those that have already made it.   I'm working hard on formulating my prospecting plan, and developing options in case those don't work for me.The next 10 weeks of my job are dedicated to studying for and taking the Series 7 and Series 66.   In that time period I am also working to determine exactly who my initial targets will be and how to contact them.  

JumpMan's picture
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Joined: 2010-06-08

Shut up

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Kletus wrote:I may be new to the Finance industry, but I do have 10 years of experience as an engineer (4 as a supervisor as well).   Dude, I don't know how to break this to you, but you're screwed.  What's this world coming to when companies are hiring engineers to act as sales people?   Just kidding, but you're going to have to fight that need to develop plans, research, data mine, validate, backtest, etc before ring a doorbell or pick up the phone every morning.  I've not met an engineer yet that can make up their mind on what to eat for breakfast every morning without a spreadsheet.  Should be fun to watch your career get off the ground. 

Kletus's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-23

pimpin_aint_easy wrote:those are fair questions kletus...yes i did research. i sat with 2 senior vps. they both tried to scare me out of joining....'its haaaaard work. blah, blah, blah.' it's one thing to hear it and another to work your arse off for 3 mo. and end up where i am at now. 150 cold calls a day sound easy until your sitting at your desk, its thursday, 450 calls behind you this week already, 69 in today and you just got hung up on by some righteous jerkoff, no REAL prospects this week and on top of all of that the appointment that you spent 3 hrs preparing for over the weekend cancels on you....you're trying to find every excuse to not throw your phone across the room! they never told me any of that in the interview and i would have to venture that most of the readers in this forum have had weeks like this. all i heard was 'hard work,' and that is something i can handle. this i just something totally different from my version of hard work i guess. then you have to do the same thing friday, and the next week, and the next and... you get the point. you need to be really headstrong to handle this biz. lots of ups and downs.i started out with a well thought out and elaborate biz plan and was priased by the bm and training coach for how nice it looked. its out the window now. dial, dial, dial. that's all.and fyi: i was not looking for advice on what i should do. i just wanted to know what typically happens given my circumstances. Pimpin,Thanks for answering my questions.  I'm almost positive that I'm planning on going the cold calling route, and I'm sure I'll find myself feeling exactly like you do sometime really soon.  I come from an engineering background, so I have already built up a high tolerance for tedious and repetitive tasks.   Hopefully it will be enough to push me through. By the way... don't give up on that business plan just yet.   You put alot of effort into it, and it most likely reflects the way you WANT to build your business.    You may have to set it aside to start with just to make numbers, but I would find a way to keep slowly incorporating your plan into your business so that once you HAVE made it you are ready to start doing things your way.

Kletus's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-23

I agree Spiff,  one way or the other its going to be a whole lot of fun watching how this works out for me.    I have to be very careful of "paralysis by analysis".   Its way to easy to spend more time planning than doing.  What might surprise you though is that I saw it quoted somewhere that EJ reports that the 2 professions that make the transition easiest are Engineers and Teachers.   I can't verify that info.. I just saw someone quote that in another thread somewhere. To be honest though... this industry really seems to fit my engineering background.   It really is just a numbers game to get started.   I relate well to the idea that if you just get off your butt and call x amount of people, you'll end up with x amount of contacts.   I know that real life rarely works out that way, but to be honest it takes the pressure off of trying to get every person as a client.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

I was just having some fun with you.  We have a couple of engineering types in my region that just kill it.  It is all a numbers game to them and they've got their own numbers figured out.  Anytime I have a new prospect come in and I ask where they work and they say Boeing I have to keep myself from sighing.  90% of the time I do.  Trying to get an engineer to become a new client is painstaking work.   My area is full of them. 

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

I find that two types of guys make it big...the engineering/military types who just plow through the "process" EXACTLY how they are told.  They don't deviate.  If they are told make 25 contacts, they make 25 contacts.  There is a process to follow.The other type is the guy that's too dumb to know any better.  Doesn't question the process because he couldn't find his way out of a paper bag without a map.  He's thee guy that you look at and say ïf that dumb fukcer can make it, I KNOW I can!".  But he kills it.There are plenty of other types that kill it, and sometimes these two types fall apart because #1 Guy fails by paralysis of analysis and lack of interpersonal skills.  At the end of the day, it's mostly inside your head.

newrepd's picture
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Joined: 2008-07-21

Kletus wrote:I just think its funny that you have absolutely no clue as to my situation and yet you can determine that I won't be around in 6 months.Will I be here in 6 months....... odds are near 100 percent.... will I be here in 18 months.... an entirely different question altogether.Just curious if you are still around Kletus? If so hows Wells and the business treating you?

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