money managers

143 replies [Last post]
troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Do any of you folks pay outside money managers to manage client assets?  If so, what do you pay for the privilege?  What performance premium do you require to justify the cost?

Morphius's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-21

Go away.

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Having a bad day today Mr. Morphius?  Maybe if you tell me about it I can help?

Morphius's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-21

Dear Dr. Max,
I appreciate your concern for my feelings. 
If simple ignorance is your issue, and you really are completely unaware of the widely used practice of using outside money managers in SMAs or similar, you can learn a lot simply by using the search function and/or googling it.  But I answered as I did not because I thought you were ignorant, but because you sound like yet another vendor trolling for business under the guise of being an advisor asking questions.  Privilege?  Performance premium?  Advisors don't use those terms - asset managers do.  You folks?  As in, you're not one of us?A new username, with a few posts, all addressing the same topic usually equals an undercover vendor, and we've been getting a number of them here lately.  To you and them I say again: be upfront about your agenda and contribute beyond just trying to sell your product or service, or go away.But thanks for worrying about me.  I feel better already. 

B24's picture
B24
Offline
Joined: 2008-07-08

Max, we have another occassional poster on here (AdvisorControl - Jason) who was very up front about what he does and what he is trying to accomplish.  We actually like reading what he has to say.  As Morph said, most of us appreciate people being up front about their intentions.  If we are interested in what you are selling, we'll tell you.

jkl1v1n6's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-10-06

Good on ya Morph! 

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Mr. Morphius, you are a paranoid fool.  My IA certification was approved by the state of CA on June 25.  I'll probably be open for business in Spring of 2011.  Pardon me for using words like premium and folks.  Nobody's perfect.  I'm a long time investor and asset management is where I excel.  I would prefer to provide my services to other financial professionals because I want to deal with people that can understand what it is I'm doing for them.  I'm not a hand holder and most of the "work" IAs do for retail clients I would find tedious.  My question was an attempt on my part to get a feel for what other advisers would be willing to pay for a particular level of performance.  I'm sorry I asked.  I thought I had found a place where I could exchange ideas with people who share my interests and concerns.  I guess I was wrong.

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Privilege?  Performance premium?  Advisors don't use those terms - asset managers do.  You folks?  As in, you're not one of us?What a hoot! 

Morphius's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-21

max wrote:Mr. Morphius, you are a paranoid fool.  My IA certification was approved by the state of CA on June 25.  I'll probably be open for business in Spring of 2011.  Pardon me for using words like premium and folks.  Nobody's perfect.  I'm a long time investor and asset management is where I excel.  I would prefer to provide my services to other financial professionals because I want to deal with people that can understand what it is I'm doing for them.  I'm not a hand holder and most of the "work" IAs do for retail clients I would find tedious.  My question was an attempt on my part to get a feel for what other advisers would be willing to pay for a particular level of performance.  I'm sorry I asked.  I thought I had found a place where I could exchange ideas with people who share my interests and concerns.  I guess I was wrong.
Wow.  An honest-to-goodness state certified IA!  How exciting!! I'm sorry for assuming you were an undercover vendor, when all along you were really just completely ignorant of how the business even works.  And how impressive that despite that ignorance you opt to start calling people names who
could help them if they so chose.  Hope that strategy works well for you.If I weren't such a "paranoid fool" I might be more inclined to warn you about the many obvious red flags waving madly with your every utterance, or the train wreck waiting for you just around the bend if you actually try to make a living at this with your current misconceptions and inexperience.   But being a "long time investor" who "excels" in asset management, it would no doubt be too "tedious" for you.  It sounds like you would prefer to screw up in real life rather than suffer the embarrassment of being corrected on an anonymous forum where the only thing you hurt is your ego.Ignorance is no crime, but when you combine ignorance with arrogance and name calling,  you have only yourself to blame if the results are not what you hoped.

Good luck, maxy.  I think you're going to need it.

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

What is your problem morphius?  I posted a sincere question and I'm greeted by you with a presumptuous "go away" and then an uninformed assessment of my chances for success.  You are condescending and ridiculous.  If everyone here is like you then this forum is a waste of time.  I'm sorry I intruded onto your turf.  Good  luck with your biz. 

jkl1v1n6's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-10-06

Max,
 
You would have only had to have been on this site for the last six months and you would understand Morph's and most of our distrust. 

Morphius's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-21

max wrote:What is your problem morphius?  I posted a sincere question and I'm greeted by you with a presumptuous "go away" You can be both sincere and ignorant.  They are not
mutually exclusive.  Max, your question showed such a complete and utter
lack of understanding of basic business practices in the industry that
I presumed you were yet another troll. It turns out that you were simply totally clueless.  Sorry for assuming that anyone who posted on a forum for financial professionals could never be that ignorant, and that you must therefore be another vendor troll.  max wrote: and then an uninformed assessment of my chances for success.  You don't even know what you don't know.  You have little understanding of how the business works, zero experience in managing money for others, and you call people names who speak honestly to you.  How much more information do you suppose one would need to negatively assess your chances for success?max wrote:You are condescending and ridiculous.  I can be both condescending and honest, without being ridiculous.  Regardless, I actually answered your question already, remember?:Morphius wrote:
If simple ignorance is your issue, and you really are completely
unaware of the widely used practice of using outside money managers in
SMAs or similar, you can learn a lot simply by using the search
function and/or googling it.  What did you learn when you used the search/google option?

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Read my original question carefully.  I sought the opinions of the people who post to this forum.  How would a web search provide me with that?  I know about SMAs and I have a pretty could idea how the fees break down.  But that wasn't my question.  I thought someone here might have something of value to add to what  I already know.  Apparently not.  

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

max wrote:Do any of you folks pay outside money managers to manage client assets?  If so, what do you pay for the privilege?  What performance premium do you require to justify the cost?
How about this poser...
 
What would you like to charge and what kind of performance can you provide?
 
Answer those questions and you will find out if you are hi or low.

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

What's your story Morphius?  Are you an RIA?  Do you operate your own business?  Do you actually have clients and assets under management?  What's the  name of your company?  I'd like to look up your ADV on the Public Disclosure site.  You do have an ADV don't you?  My guess is you're a wannabe adviser living in your mommy's basement and drive an ice ceam truck for a little extra cash to keep supplied with meth.  I could be wrong, but not likely.  

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Can you answer my original question Jaxon or do you drive an ice cream truck too?

Morphius's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-21

max wrote:What's your story Morphius?  Are you an RIA?  Do you operate your own business?  Do you actually have clients and assets under management?  What's the  name of your company?  I'd like to look up your ADV on the Public Disclosure site.  You do have an ADV don't you?  My guess is you're a wannabe adviser living in your mommy's basement and drive an ice ceam truck for a little extra cash to keep supplied with meth.  I could be wrong, but not likely.  
This gets better and better!    Now you want to act tough and start calling people out!       And since you refuse to search for what you want to learn, you'll never know my story, as I have better things to do than do your work for you.  Like ridiculing you!Not sure which is more funny: the fact that you think anyone would pay you anything to manage money on the strength of your being "a long time investor," or that you think being certified by CA as an IA means anything at all!  But wait!!  There's more!!!!!!   You'll "probably" be open for business in the Spring of 2011!!  Only a couple more years!! That means for the next couple of years, until you probably open your doors with all those professionals clamoring to pay you to manage their clients' money so that you don't have to deal with the tedium of explaining your genius to the actual clients, you'll do what?  Continue pretending to be a professional by posting stupid questions on forums for professionals?What was I thinking when I said you were clueless and ignorant?!  I should have said ignorant and clueless!  My mistake!  Keep the dream alive, max ... hit the snooze button again!! 

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

max wrote:Can you answer my original question Jaxon or do you drive an ice cream truck too?
 
Can? Yes, I can answer the questions but I will not. Who in the world would ask those types of questions and expect someone to answer on a public forum. Go visit professionals in your area and ask them personally.
 
I think driving the ice cream truck is far better then riding around on the short bus.
 
 

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

max wrote:What's your story Morphius?  Are you an RIA?  Do you operate your own business?  Do you actually have clients and assets under management?  What's the  name of your company?  I'd like to look up your ADV on the Public Disclosure site.  You do have an ADV don't you?  My guess is you're a wannabe adviser living in your mommy's basement and drive an ice ceam truck for a little extra cash to keep supplied with meth.  I could be wrong, but not likely.  
Owned.

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

JAXSON wrote:max wrote:Do any of you folks pay outside money managers to manage client assets?  If so, what do you pay for the privilege?  What performance premium do you require to justify the cost?
How about this poser...
 
What would you like to charge and what kind of performance can you provide?
 
Answer those questions and you will find out if you are hi or low.What about him? Your a cold call boy posing as an authentic broker.

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

CALI123 wrote:Ummm Max (DHK) if your skin isn't thick enough for a message board then you will get eaten alive in 2011.
 
If your questions is for real then explain a bit more what you are talking about. Ie- Financial Planner with no AUM outsourceing asset management, wirehouse broker using a SMA, indy using a firm like Lockwood. If you are trying to get reps to use your services, then you will need to look at SMA providers like Lockwood and the wirehouse firms. Most will want a min of an audited 3 year track record. At that point you are looking at getting paid 50bps.
 Thanks for making the effort to be informative.  I saw in another thread that you have an RIA.  I guess that makes you one of the few genuine registered advisers posting here.  Do you know if asset managers ever serve other advisers outside of an SMA sort of framework?  There's very little on the web to provide guidance regarding money management arrangements.  I'll have to hope that the custodian I select will be able to provide that guidance.  

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

I think I'm getting the picture here.  Is it fair to say that most of
the people posting here in the Advisor Forum are actually brokers reps
not advisor reps?  That would explain the edgy combative attitudes
common here.  I noticed that when I was preparing for the series 65
and looking for exam related info on this site.  Many of the posters seemed
hostile and bitter.  Either the brokerage biz engenders those attitudes
or such people are attracted to the biz.  Which do you suppose is true?  Oh well, never mind. 

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

iceco1d wrote:Wow.  Another post illustrating that you are a complete moron. 
 
Almost every poster here is dually licensed as a registered rep AND an investment advisor rep.  Actually most are registered as Life & Health agents too. 
 
The reason you're getting a harsh welcome here is because you have no f*cking clue what you are talking about, and then you get c***y when people try to tell you why it's obvious that you have no clue.
 
Basically you're f***ed.I'm curious, how do all of you "dually licensed" reps make the transition from snake oil salesman broker's rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers to service oriented adviser and fiduciary?  What's the process, how is it done?  Or do you ever make the transition?

anonymous's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-09-29

Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d's post.
 
It's quite clear that your knowledge of this industry has come from reading about the industry and what you've read was written by people who don't understand the business.
 
Is it ok if I assume that you are an honest and ethical person?  Put yourself in the situation of being dually registered.  With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in the client's best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in the client's best interest.
 
Now, let's assume that you aren't honest and ethical.   With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in your best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in your best interest.
 
Piker: Believes that mode of compensation controls one's ethics. 
Non-Piker: Believes that ethical people are ethical. 

etj4588's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-08-18

max wrote: I'm curious, how do all of you "dually licensed" reps make the transition from snake oil salesman broker's rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers to service oriented adviser and fiduciary? 
 
Classic line, this is the funniest thread on this forum!  Wasn't Old Bernie an RIA?
 

Morphius's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-21

max wrote:
I'm curious, how do all of you "dually licensed" reps make the transition from snake oil salesman broker's rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers to service oriented adviser and fiduciary?  What's the process, how is it done?  Or do you ever make the transition? Let's recap a minute here maxy, shall we?You "excel" at asset management as an individual investor, but have zero experience in the industry, and yet you naively espouse silly uninformed stereotypes about "snake oil salesman broker's rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers."  You want to target your services to these "snake oil salesmen"
because you prefer to "deal with people that can understand what it is I'm
doing for them" and because "most of the 'work' IAs do
for retail clients I would find tedious."  Your real problem is not your lack of experience and understanding since we all were, at one point, inexperienced and ignorant.  Those shortcomings can be easily overcome if one recognizes their own ignorance and is sufficiently motivated to do whatever necessary to overcome it.  Your real problem, to paraphrase Ronald Reagan's classic line about liberals, isn't that you are ignorant, it's just that you know so much that isn't so.  You have somehow accepted as fact so much about this industry, it's players, and how it functions that just isn't so, and then based on this foundation of misunderstanding you have constructed your plans and dreams.   Ethics are not a function of what form of compensation or title an advisor has.  Ethics are a function of the individual's character.  You can't legislate morality or ethics.  And I say that as an RIA who according to these simplistic stereotypes is supposedly by definition ethical beyond reproach.  Now comes your real moment of truth.  You can continue to write us all off as bitter snake oil salesmen without ethics, or you can park your ego long enough to admit that you just might be able to learn a thing or two from the people who are actually doing what you only dream of doing.  It's up to you.  It won't matter one way or the other to us, but it could matter a great deal to you. 

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

anonymous wrote:Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d's post.
 
It's quite clear that your knowledge of this industry has come from reading about the industry and what you've read was written by people who don't understand the business.
 
Is it ok if I assume that you are an honest and ethical person?  Put yourself in the situation of being dually registered.  With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in the client's best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in the client's best interest.
 
Now, let's assume that you aren't honest and ethical.   With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in your best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in your best interest.
 
Piker: Believes that mode of compensation controls one's ethics. 
Non-Piker: Believes that ethical people are ethical.  You make a well reasoned point and I appreciate that.  But, I will ask
you this.  Do you really believe that a rep (salesman) earning a living
from commissions is just as likely to act in the customer's interest as
a fee based adviser with a legal obligation to act as a fiduciary?  Do
you think it's easy for someone who has worked with the mindset of a
salesman to make the transition to a mindset of a fiduciary  My
point was that it must be difficult and I suspect that even some of the
"ethical" aren't able to do it.  Would you prefer your mother went to an "adviser" that's always been fee based or a rep that's spent most of his career as a salesman?

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Morphius wrote:

max wrote:
I'm curious, how do all of you "dually licensed" reps make the transition from snake oil salesman broker's rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers to service oriented adviser and fiduciary?  What's the process, how is it done?  Or do you ever make the transition? Let's recap a minute here maxy, shall we?You "excel" at asset management as an individual investor, but have zero experience in the industry, and yet you naively espouse silly uninformed stereotypes about "snake oil salesman broker's rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers."  You want to target your services to these "snake oil salesmen"
because you prefer to "deal with people that can understand what it is I'm
doing for them" and because "most of the 'work' IAs do
for retail clients I would find tedious."  Your real problem is not your lack of experience and understanding since we all were, at one point, inexperienced and ignorant.  Those shortcomings can be easily overcome if one recognizes their own ignorance and is sufficiently motivated to do whatever necessary to overcome it.  Your real problem, to paraphrase Ronald Reagan's classic line about liberals, isn't that you are ignorant, it's just that you know so much that isn't so.  You have somehow accepted as fact so much about this industry, it's players, and how it functions that just isn't so, and then based on this foundation of misunderstanding you have constructed your plans and dreams.   Ethics are not a function of what form of compensation or title an advisor has.  Ethics are a function of the individual's character.  You can't legislate morality or ethics.  And I say that as an RIA who according to these simplistic stereotypes is supposedly by definition ethical beyond reproach.  Now comes your real moment of truth.  You can continue to write us all off as bitter snake oil salesmen without ethics, or you can park your ego long enough to admit that you just might be able to learn a thing or two from the people who are actually doing what you only dream of doing.  It's up to you.  It won't matter one way or the other to us, but it could matter a great deal to you.  I don't intend to target reps.  I would manage money for advisers.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are registered.  A stupid person cannot pass the series 7 or 65 exam.  Therefore, you are not stupid.  You cannot believe that a salesman is just as likely as a fiduciary to place the customers interests before his own.I don't dream of doing what you are doing Morphius.  I usually succeed not because I strive to imitate others, I succeed because I think outside the box and live my own dream.Morphius, you wrote me off after my first post, without cause, so I wrote you off.  Since then I've just been jerking your chain because it's so easy to do.  I realized I wasn't going to obtain any insights about the biz here so I thought there might be some entertainment value, and there was.   

B24's picture
B24
Offline
Joined: 2008-07-08

max wrote: anonymous wrote:Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d's post.
 
It's quite clear that your knowledge of this industry has come from reading about the industry and what you've read was written by people who don't understand the business.
 
Is it ok if I assume that you are an honest and ethical person?  Put yourself in the situation of being dually registered.  With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in the client's best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in the client's best interest.
 
Now, let's assume that you aren't honest and ethical.   With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in your best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in your best interest.
 
Piker: Believes that mode of compensation controls one's ethics. 
Non-Piker: Believes that ethical people are ethical.  You make a well reasoned point and I appreciate that.  But, I will ask you this.  Do you really believe that a rep (salesman) earning a living from commissions is just as likely to act in the customer's interest as a fee based adviser with a legal obligation to act as a fiduciary?  Do you think it's easy for someone who has worked with the mindset of a salesman to make the transition to a mindset of a fiduciary  My point was that it must be difficult and I suspect that even some of the "ethical" aren't able to do it.  Would you prefer your mother went to an "adviser" that's always been fee based or a rep that's spent most of his career as a salesman?
 
I prefer she go to the guy that knows what he's doing and is ethical.  I know some "advisors" that are terrible, and some "reps" that are really good at what they do.  Let's not forget, the "fee-based" world, essentially, did not exist until the recent past.  Yes, there was always fee-based management, but not for the mainstream.  Therefore (to bring your argument to it's logical conclusion), prior to fee-based management for the masses, there were no good, ethical, commissioned advisors out there.

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

B24 wrote:max wrote: anonymous wrote:Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d's post.
 
It's quite clear that your knowledge of this industry has come from reading about the industry and what you've read was written by people who don't understand the business.
 
Is it ok if I assume that you are an honest and ethical person?  Put yourself in the situation of being dually registered.  With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in the client's best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in the client's best interest.
 
Now, let's assume that you aren't honest and ethical.   With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in your best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in your best interest.
 
Piker: Believes that mode of compensation controls one's ethics. 
Non-Piker: Believes that ethical people are ethical.  You make a well reasoned point and I appreciate that.  But, I will ask you this.  Do you really believe that a rep (salesman) earning a living from commissions is just as likely to act in the customer's interest as a fee based adviser with a legal obligation to act as a fiduciary?  Do you think it's easy for someone who has worked with the mindset of a salesman to make the transition to a mindset of a fiduciary  My point was that it must be difficult and I suspect that even some of the "ethical" aren't able to do it.  Would you prefer your mother went to an "adviser" that's always been fee based or a rep that's spent most of his career as a salesman?
 
I prefer she go to the guy that knows what he's doing and is ethical.  I know some "advisors" that are terrible, and some "reps" that are really good at what they do.  Let's not forget, the "fee-based" world, essentially, did not exist until the recent past.  Yes, there was always fee-based management, but not for the mainstream.  Therefore (to bring your argument to it's logical conclusion), prior to fee-based management for the masses, there were no good, ethical, commissioned advisors out there.The point is that you can't easily know who's ethical and "knows what he's doing".  Those are things that are known after it's too late.  Why can't we acknowledge that how a person is compensated can affect his conduct?   

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

anonymous wrote:Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d's post.
 
It's quite clear that your knowledge of this industry has come from reading about the industry and what you've read was written by people who don't understand the business.
 
Is it ok if I assume that you are an honest and ethical person?  Put yourself in the situation of being dually registered.  With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in the client's best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in the client's best interest.
 
Now, let's assume that you aren't honest and ethical.   With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in your best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in your best interest.
 
Piker: Believes that mode of compensation controls one's ethics. 
Non-Piker: Believes that ethical people are ethical. 
 
I knew I wasn't a piker! Kiss my ass hotair1.

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

Walk away for a day and look what happens.

Why are you waiting until 2011? I believe I set up my RIA in about 6 weeks. I'm not sure why that would take you so long.

So, how will you be compensated? Flat fee? Percentage of assets under management? Percentage of profits? Both percentage of profits and assets under management? Will you use watermarks? How high will yours be?

By the way - Morphius regularly contributes on this forum and has good information. His posts have impeccable spelling and grammar and usually when he finds a piker, he nails them to the wall. You have proven that you think you know everything (much like everybody who ever starts in our line of work).

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

max wrote:
anonymous wrote:Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d's post.
 
It's quite clear that your knowledge of this industry has come from reading about the industry and what you've read was written by people who don't understand the business.
 
Is it ok if I assume that you are an honest and ethical person?  Put yourself in the situation of being dually registered.  With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in the client's best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in the client's best interest.
 
Now, let's assume that you aren't honest and ethical.   With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in your best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in your best interest.
 
Piker: Believes that mode of compensation controls one's ethics. 
Non-Piker: Believes that ethical people are ethical.  You make a well reasoned point and I appreciate that.  But, I will ask
you this.  Do you really believe that a rep (salesman) earning a living
from commissions is just as likely to act in the customer's interest as
a fee based adviser with a legal obligation to act as a fiduciary?  Do
you think it's easy for someone who has worked with the mindset of a
salesman to make the transition to a mindset of a fiduciary  My
point was that it must be difficult and I suspect that even some of the
"ethical" aren't able to do it.  Would you prefer your mother went to an "adviser" that's always been fee based or a rep that's spent most of his career as a salesman?I've seen guys not do trades in fee accounts that they wanted to do because it would cost them thousands in ticket charges. You've just proven what a retard you are.

Morphius's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-21

There's entertainment value to your posts all right, maxy, but it's from watching you pretend you are not as clueless you have already proven yourself to be.  Please educate us some more about the industry we work in so we might learn: are the good guys the ones wearing the white hats or the black hats?  It's so hard for us snake oil salesmen to keep that straight.  And while you're inexplicably biding your time over the next two years before gracing the investment world with your unique expertise and ethics, why don't you talk with some of the NASCAR teams about outsourcing their driving to you?   They may be hesitant until you clarify for them that the state of CA has certified you to drive a car and that you have excelled at driving your own car for a long time.  Once you explain that, I'm sure they will be lining up for the privilege of outsourcing the driving to you. 

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Moraen wrote:Walk away for a day and look what happens.

Why are you waiting until 2011? I believe I set up my RIA in about 6 weeks. I'm not sure why that would take you so long.

So, how will you be compensated? Flat fee? Percentage of assets under management? Percentage of profits? Both percentage of profits and assets under management? Will you use watermarks? How high will yours be?

By the way - Morphius regularly contributes on this forum and has good information. His posts have impeccable spelling and grammar and usually when he finds a piker, he nails them to the wall. You have proven that you think you know everything (much like everybody who ever starts in our line of work).

My registration became effective June 25.  I want at least a year to compile a performance record before I offer my services to a nonpro and 3 to 5 years before offering to a pro.  Besides that, I'd like to take some time to get up to speed on the business management aspects of an advisory biz.  Because I will be offering performance to distinguish myself from other advisers, a track record is essential.Percentage of AUM.I've never claimed to know much at all about "your biz".  I don't know how you could infer that I thought I do.  I came here to learn something about the nuts and bolts of the industry as it's practiced today and was told to go away.I don't care that morphius has good grammar.  I still think he's a presumptuous ***hole.

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

DHK wrote:
max wrote:
anonymous wrote:Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d's post.
 
It's quite clear that your knowledge of this industry has come from reading about the industry and what you've read was written by people who don't understand the business.
 
Is it ok if I assume that you are an honest and ethical person?  Put yourself in the situation of being dually registered.  With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in the client's best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in the client's best interest.
 
Now, let's assume that you aren't honest and ethical.   With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in your best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in your best interest.
 
Piker: Believes that mode of compensation controls one's ethics. 
Non-Piker: Believes that ethical people are ethical.  You make a well reasoned point and I appreciate that.  But, I will ask
you this.  Do you really believe that a rep (salesman) earning a living
from commissions is just as likely to act in the customer's interest as
a fee based adviser with a legal obligation to act as a fiduciary?  Do
you think it's easy for someone who has worked with the mindset of a
salesman to make the transition to a mindset of a fiduciary  My
point was that it must be difficult and I suspect that even some of the
"ethical" aren't able to do it.  Would you prefer your mother went to an "adviser" that's always been fee based or a rep that's spent most of his career as a salesman?I've seen guys not do trades in fee accounts that they wanted to do because it would cost them thousands in ticket charges. You've just proven what a retard you are. What's the matter with you people?  Can't you read?  I never said all salesman are unethical and all fee based advisers are ethical.  So, you use an  exception to disprove a rule.  Who's the  retard?

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

max wrote:
DHK wrote:
max wrote:
anonymous wrote:Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d's post.
 
It's quite clear that your knowledge of this industry has come from reading about the industry and what you've read was written by people who don't understand the business.
 
Is it ok if I assume that you are an honest and ethical person?  Put yourself in the situation of being dually registered.  With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in the client's best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in the client's best interest.
 
Now, let's assume that you aren't honest and ethical.   With that assumption in mind, when you are working as a "service oriented adviser and fiduciary", would you do what is in your best interest?   If your client needs to actually buy a product from you, and you are working as a "snake oil salesman broker's rep", would you do what is in your best interest.
 
Piker: Believes that mode of compensation controls one's ethics. 
Non-Piker: Believes that ethical people are ethical.  You make a well reasoned point and I appreciate that.  But, I will ask
you this.  Do you really believe that a rep (salesman) earning a living
from commissions is just as likely to act in the customer's interest as
a fee based adviser with a legal obligation to act as a fiduciary?  Do
you think it's easy for someone who has worked with the mindset of a
salesman to make the transition to a mindset of a fiduciary  My
point was that it must be difficult and I suspect that even some of the
"ethical" aren't able to do it.  Would you prefer your mother went to an "adviser" that's always been fee based or a rep that's spent most of his career as a salesman?I've seen guys not do trades in fee accounts that they wanted to do because it would cost them thousands in ticket charges. You've just proven what a retard you are. What's the matter with you people?  Can't you read?  I never said all salesman are unethical and all fee based advisers are ethical.  So, you use an  exception to disprove a rule.  Who's the  retard?Retard, please explain how fee chargers aren't salesmen. Thank you.

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

max wrote:
Moraen wrote:Walk away for a day and look what happens.

Why are you waiting until 2011? I believe I set up my RIA in about 6 weeks. I'm not sure why that would take you so long.

So, how will you be compensated? Flat fee? Percentage of assets under management? Percentage of profits? Both percentage of profits and assets under management? Will you use watermarks? How high will yours be?

By the way - Morphius regularly contributes on this forum and has good information. His posts have impeccable spelling and grammar and usually when he finds a piker, he nails them to the wall. You have proven that you think you know everything (much like everybody who ever starts in our line of work).

My registration became effective June 25.  I want at least a year to compile a performance record before I offer my services to a nonpro and 3 to 5 years before offering to a pro.  Besides that, I'd like to take some time to get up to speed on the business management aspects of an advisory biz.  Because I will be offering performance to distinguish myself from other advisers, a track record is essential.Percentage of AUM.I've never claimed to know much at all about "your biz".  I don't know how you could infer that I thought I do.  I came here to learn something about the nuts and bolts of the industry as it's practiced today and was told to go away.I don't care that morphius has good grammar.  I still think he's a presumptuous ***hole.

Max - what standards are you using to compile your performance record?

By the way, a one year track record doesn't distinguish you. Or two years for that matter.

And, does the fact that you are going to be "managing money" mean that you won't be doing what us "typical advisors do"? And if so, how does that differ from the fact that at some point you will be wanting us to refer business to you? And if so, how is Morphius' inference that you are here trying to peddle your wares in preparation of your "grand opening" wrong?

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

DHK, I suppose that everyone on the planet is a salesman in the sense that we all represent that we have something of value to offer.  But, a fee based adviser doesn't depend on product sales to generate revenue, a commission based rep does.  Why do you think there are regs against churning?  Because salesmen have an incentive to place their own interests above the client's.

Morphius's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-21

Max has got to be a troll.  Nobody could be this stupid.  

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Moraen wrote: max wrote:
Moraen wrote:Walk away for a day and look what happens.

Why are you waiting until 2011? I believe I set up my RIA in about 6 weeks. I'm not sure why that would take you so long.

So, how will you be compensated? Flat fee? Percentage of assets under management? Percentage of profits? Both percentage of profits and assets under management? Will you use watermarks? How high will yours be?

By the way - Morphius regularly contributes on this forum and has good information. His posts have impeccable spelling and grammar and usually when he finds a piker, he nails them to the wall. You have proven that you think you know everything (much like everybody who ever starts in our line of work).

My registration became effective June 25.  I want at least a year to compile a performance record before I offer my services to a nonpro and 3 to 5 years before offering to a pro.  Besides that, I'd like to take some time to get up to speed on the business management aspects of an advisory biz.  Because I will be offering performance to distinguish myself from other advisers, a track record is essential.Percentage of AUM.I've never claimed to know much at all about "your biz".  I don't know how you could infer that I thought I do.  I came here to learn something about the nuts and bolts of the industry as it's practiced today and was told to go away.I don't care that morphius has good grammar.  I still think he's a presumptuous ***hole.

Max - what standards are you using to compile your performance record?

By the way, a one year track record doesn't distinguish you. Or two years for that matter.

And, does the fact that you are going to be "managing money" mean that you won't be doing what us "typical advisors do"? And if so, how does that differ from the fact that at some point you will be wanting us to refer business to you? And if so, how is Morphius' inference that you are here trying to peddle your wares in preparation of your "grand opening" wrong?Thank you for your intelligent and civil comments.  Could you be a little more specific regarding performance record standards?  I'm reading a good book titled "Measuring Invetment Performance" by David Spaulding.  I'll get back to you on "standards" after I've finished it.When I can demonstrate the ability to make a profit for a client in both bull and bear markets, I will distinguish myself and someone will be impressed whether the time frame is one year or two.It never occurred to me to promote my business in this forum and Morphius drew that inference before he knew anything about me.  I posted here because this is the first board I've found where "advisers" interact.  But, it is reasonable for you to wonder about my motives and for that I bear you no malice.

Moraen's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-22

Standards are not unified at the moment. Will you be using GIPS performance standards when you report your returns?

Max - since you are new to the forum - he drew that inference because what you were saying happens a lot - people peddle all kinds of crap on here.'

Morphius's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-21

max wrote:   I came here to learn something about the nuts and bolts of the industry as it's practiced today and was told to go away.I don't care that morphius has good grammar.  I still think he's a presumptuous ***hole.Grow a pair, max.  This isn't a business for the thin skinned.  You want a friend,  get a dog.  You claim you want to learn about the nuts and bolts of the industry, but you are so busy defending your warped and uninformed assumptions that you refuse to even shut up long enough to actually listen.  Every time you open your mouth you insert your foot further.  Latest examples:max wrote: Could you be a little more specific regarding performance
record standards?  I'm reading a good book titled "Measuring Invetment
Performance" by David Spaulding.  I'll get back to you on "standards"
after I've finished it.A track record that doesn't strictly comply with very specific performance standards (GIPS) would be worthless for your purposes.  But since you are certified and have read so much I'm sure you knew that.max wrote:When
I can demonstrate the ability to make a profit for a client in both
bull and bear markets, I will distinguish myself and someone will be
impressed whether the time frame is one year or two.1. It would take you far longer than a couple of years to establish a track record in both bull and bear markets.2. If you had the ability to consistently "make a profit" in both bull and bear markets, you would make so much money on your own that you have no need of clients.At some point, max, you really need to look in the mirror and ask yourself this question: either I am right and everybody else who actually works in the industry is wrong, or maybe,  just maybe ...

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  I'm curious, If you do have clients, how have their portfolios done over the past two years?  What type of investment vehicles do you use for them?  Are you an ETF kind of guy, mutual funds, limited partnerships?  What would it be?  What has your research department been pumping lately?

Gordon Ramsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-07-09

max wrote:Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  I'm curious, If you do have clients, how have their portfolios done over the past two years?  What type of investment vehicles do you use for them?  Are you an ETF kind of guy, mutual funds, limited partnerships?  What would it be?  What has your research department been pumping lately?
 
If you can't stand the heat... GET OUT OF MY F*&$^%# KITCHEN!
 
You think you can learn how to manage portfolios out of a BOOK???
 
You're right.  You had better wait until 2011 to start your RIA.  MAYBE then you'll realize that you're in way too much hot water!

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Gordon Ramsey wrote:max wrote:Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  I'm curious, If you do have clients, how have their portfolios done over the past two years?  What type of investment vehicles do you use for them?  Are you an ETF kind of guy, mutual funds, limited partnerships?  What would it be?  What has your research department been pumping lately?
 
If you can't stand the heat... GET OUT OF MY F*&$^%# KITCHEN!
 
You think you can learn how to manage portfolios out of a BOOK???
 
You're right.  You had better wait until 2011 to start your RIA.  MAYBE then you'll realize that you're in way too much hot water!Please read what I say carefully.  The book I'm reading is on investment performance measurement not portfolio management.

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Moraen wrote:Standards are not unified at the moment. Will you be using GIPS performance standards when you report your returns?

Max - since you are new to the forum - he drew that inference because what you were saying happens a lot - people peddle all kinds of crap on here.'I'm taking a look at the GIPS site now.  I'll get back to you on your question.  Thanks for your input.

Morphius's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-21

max wrote:Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  I guess for the same stupid reason you are determined to start a business without knowing anything about the subject.  

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Morphius wrote:
max wrote:Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  I guess for the same stupid reason you are determined to start a business without knowing anything about the subject.  

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

Morphius wrote:
max wrote:Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  I guess for the same stupid reason you are determined to start a business without knowing anything about the subject.   Max, how does it feel to be owned by a total retard?

troll's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-29

DHK wrote:
Morphius wrote:
max wrote:Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  I guess for the same stupid reason you are determined to start a business without knowing anything about the subject.   Max, how does it feel to be owned by a total retard? I'm sorry DHK, it must have been a long day because I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.  You seem totaly incoherent to me.  Owned, retard, how does it feel?????  I feel like I'm back in junior high again.  I think I'm going to take a long weekend now.  You crazy kids try to stay out of trouble now, OK.   

Please or Register to post comments.

Industry Newsletters
Careers Category Sponsor Links

Sponsored Introduction Continue on to (or wait seconds) ×