Which Lead Lists are Better?

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ComBroker's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-22

I am looking to purchase a lead list, and would like to see if anyone had any feed back on the following two companies... 1.  FNIN2. Investor Leads I am curious as to how good their "pre-qualified" leads are, if they live up to their guarantee, how expensive they are, how people have converted with them, etc. etc. 

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

Investor leads are $0.20 per lead min 2,000 leads... Never used them...Never heard of other company...Leads are only as good as the person calling...i.e. You order min 2,000 leads call 125 people and get nothing vs someone calling all 2,000 and getting something(or nothing)... based on different experiences..

ComBroker's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-22

The FNIN company I researched today sells their leads ranging from 50cent per(oldest leads) to $18.00 per(1-2 weeks old....and differing price ranges in between for different time periods of how old they are.They pre-qualify their leads...in my case, they see that someone has  X amount they are ready to invest in the next 1-2 weeks, if they are interested in speculative investment, if they are male, etc. etc.They guarantee that the pre-qualified leads will AT LEAST be interested in what you have to say, and that usually 3-5% are returned for new leads.I don't know what a minimum is for the amount to purchase...and also tried to get a sample of some of the leads but they wouldn't budge.We are expecting to buy some tomorrow to see how it goes.

Kankle J's picture
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Joined: 2010-10-02

Just called FNIN to get more information.  They share a line with 3 other business, and no automated phone service.   Seems  kind of sketchy to me to have to leave a number to an information network firm for them to hopefully call me back.   The leads do look good though as far as information and quality.....If they are legit.

Kankle J's picture
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Joined: 2010-10-02

Just called FNIN to get more information.  They share a line with 3 other business, and no automated phone service.   Seems  kind of sketchy to me to have to leave a number to an information network firm for them to hopefully call me back.   The leads do look good though as far as information and quality.....If they are legit.

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

You people are dumb and or stupid if you pay $18.00 per lead.. 

ComBroker's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-22

you see this was from april right?

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

I always doubt the leads people who say they've got 357 people who have 401k rollovers to do right now or that have more than $250K in managed money they'd like to move in the next 3 months.  Really?  If you're that good at finding those people, how about you and I go into biz for ourselves.  You get that info, call the people, schedule the initial appointment, and I'll take care of the rest.  We'll kill it.  I know it's a bit more time intensive, but www.whitepages.com will let you search by street and identify all the residents of the street.  Their ages are also listed. How about you pick 5-10 streets a day and call everyone over the age of 50.  I think your results would be just as good as buying a leads list. 

Nicole_Marie_LPL's picture
Joined: 2010-12-28

Prestige Management. If anyone would like to use their services, I have a gentleman there I have been dealing with who is wonderful. I have nothing but good things to say about them!

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

Yeah Prestige is the worst company out there... check other posts for them..

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I know it's a bit more time intensive, but www.whitepages.com will let you search by street and identify all the residents of the street.  Their ages are also listed. How about you pick 5-10 streets a day and call everyone over the age of 50.  I think your results would be just as good as buying a leads list.  not true. you will end up with at least 90% of those name on a DNC. i've tried it. i pulled all the names using whitepages from a wealthy golf course community in my area. i ended up with 190 names and numbers after about 2 hrs of work and only 7 of them were not on the DNC. you need a scrubbed list otherwise your contact ratio will end up being 1-2%. i've got a guy that has been sending me some great lists with age, investible assets, etc. and from what i found the info is about as accurate as you could expect and only about 1% on the DNC. pm if interested.

SuperMan's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-18

2hrs worth of work huh?  Wow, imagine if you jumped in the car and just knocked on their door.  Amazing. Squash... you tell people to go to infousa ... wtf do you know about lists?

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

SuperMan wrote:2hrs worth of work huh?  Wow, imagine if you jumped in the car and just knocked on their door.  Amazing. all in it was 3.5 hrs after the dials. time to knock on 190 doors would probably take around 2 days. just efficiency not amazing.

BigFirepower's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-09

www.cismarketing.comThey have an interactive site. I've done biz with them for years. The stuff was really great before DNC list. Since then, I'd never bother with residential leads, unless I was mailing only. They have a ton of lists to choose from, they are a long time company, very reasonably priced, and they can deliver in data or paper format. A lady that works there, has recognized me over the years when I've called. So, she's been there a long time, just like the company. If anyone buys from them, tell me later how it worked out.  

JimboWHO's picture
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Joined: 2011-01-05

 The BBB advises me that there are strong connections  between Prestige Management  and Select Marketing Solution.  Also, based on my personal experience and that of many others I have read about, I would say with all confidence that SELECT MARKETING SOLUTION is a rogue company and an indifferent violator of consumer laws.  Given the many complaints about their business practices and the irresponsible manner in which they have addressed them, the Better Business Bureau has recently assigned them an "F" rating. The BBB does this only reluctantly.In addition, the Illinois state attorney general's office is handling no fewer than 27 written complaints about this Granite City Illinois-based company.  I know because I have been communicating with them as I have the BBB and other consumer organizations and law enforcement organizations. Take a look at the 'testimonials' on their website - they've clearly written their own testimonials and conveniently introduced their own names (and their pseudo-names) into most all of them.Advisors interested in buying leads would be wise to not make the mistake I made; simply Google SELECT MARKETING SOLUTION. Given the terrible reputation that select marketing solution has earned I would expect a new company name is in their future - it seems there is a connection already to a similar company called the Prospecting Department . I would be happy to personally provide anyone interested with the details of my experience and that which I have become aware of about this 'company.'JJMhttp://www.ripoffreport.com/directory/Select-marketing-Solution.aspxhttp://www.bbb.org/stlouis/business-reviews/business-opportunity-companies/select-marketing-solution-in-granite-city-il-310321087 

SuperMan's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-18

pimpin_aint_easy wrote:SuperMan wrote:2hrs worth of work huh?  Wow, imagine if you jumped in the car and just knocked on their door.  Amazing. all in it was 3.5 hrs after the dials. time to knock on 190 doors would probably take around 2 days. just efficiency not amazing.3.5 to find less than 20 names to call and how many did you reach?  How in the world is that efficient?  If you knocked those same doors in 3.5hrs how many would you have reached? 

ZwingDing's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-15

BFP, do you have a preference for any of their list categories in particular? Bondguy also recommends CIS so I'm thinking of trying them out.

LIU's picture
LIU
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Joined: 2010-10-24

My experience has been I purchased leads that cost .20 per leads and purchased leads for .06 per lead and had some of the same people on it.

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

SuperMan wrote:2hrs worth of work huh?  Wow, imagine if you jumped in the car and just knocked on their door.  Amazing. Squash... you tell people to go to infousa ... wtf do you know about lists?I  know if you are calling residences, and with the DNC, everyone has the same info (No magical "401K rollover within 90 days bs") With residential it is a matter of contacts (same with doorknocking)... Sure there are better areas to call/walk (big trees, buicks, unincorporated areas, etc).. but it still is just doing it.. So with that I think if you can get the same numbers for free(library) from Reference USA etc.. then do that.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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pimpin_aint_easy wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:I know it's a bit more time intensive, but www.whitepages.com will let you search by street and identify all the residents of the street.  Their ages are also listed. How about you pick 5-10 streets a day and call everyone over the age of 50.  I think your results would be just as good as buying a leads list.  not true. you will end up with at least 90% of those name on a DNC. i've tried it. i pulled all the names using whitepages from a wealthy golf course community in my area. i ended up with 190 names and numbers after about 2 hrs of work and only 7 of them were not on the DNC. you need a scrubbed list otherwise your contact ratio will end up being 1-2%. i've got a guy that has been sending me some great lists with age, investible assets, etc. and from what i found the info is about as accurate as you could expect and only about 1% on the DNC. pm if interested.I found 10 people over 60 who weren't on the DNC list in about 15 minutes.  I understand that people in a gated golf community might be more prone to signing up for the DNC list than your average suburbian, but I don't have a lot of gated golf communities in my area.  I'm sure if I looked at the uber wealthy neighborhoods the results might be different.    So, the question is do I take rest of the industry's approach and cold call those 10 folks or do I do the Jones thing and doorknock them.  Since it's a balmy 27 degrees here today, I'd lean towards calling.  If it were a nice spring or summer day I'd go walk that street and ring all the doorbells, hoping to specifically find those 10 people.  I saw the poll you started.  I don't think it's as easy as answering which is more efficient.  They're different.  Can you pound through 190 cold calls faster than you can ring 190 doorbells?  Absolutely.  How many of those 190 people will have your business card in their hands when you finish the set of calls?  Zero.  How many of them will have looked you in the eye?  Zero.  How many of their houses have you looked at to get a general sense of whether or not they might have some money or if they're just faking it until they make it?  Zero.  How many of those 190 people will see your number on their caller ID and not answer the phone? Most.  How many people don't answer their doorbell.  Few.  How many people will you wish hadn't answered their doorbell? A few.  So, the question isn't which is the most efficient, instead which is the most effective.  For a lot of us it's more effective to meet the people at their front door, have a short conversation with them about their money, let them know you can help them, and let them know you'll be in contact again in the near future.  Is it more efficient?  Absolutely not.  I have to get in my car, drive to their street, walk from door to door, ring the doorbell, and wait for them to answer, all before I have them tell me they're broke.  Then it's on to the next one.  Each has it's benefits.  Both of them suck for one reason or another. 

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

I found 10 people over 60 who weren't on the DNC list in about 15 minutes.  spiff i appreciate all the great advice, but you lose this 1. you are telling the guy to manually make his list using whitepages.com as opposed to buying a list. you can talk circles all you want about efficiency v. effective, calling v. knocking, blah, blah, blah, but there is no way in hell that this will be more effecient than sitting in front of a phone with a premade spreadsheet broken down into age and available assets. those 10 people are probably living off of ss. call 'em and let us know how it goes. then when you are done spend another 15 min pulling another 10 names. meanwhile i'll stick to dialing 55-65 $150k+ in investable assets and within an hour i will have AT LEAST double the amount of contacts. period.

squash2's picture
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pimpin_aint_easy wrote:I found 10 people over 60 who weren't on the DNC list in about 15 minutes.  spiff i appreciate all the great advice, but you lose this 1. you are telling the guy to manually make his list using whitepages.com as opposed to buying a list. you can talk circles all you want about efficiency v. effective, calling v. knocking, blah, blah, blah, but there is no way in hell that this will be more effecient than sitting in front of a phone with a premade spreadsheet broken down into age and available assets. those 10 people are probably living off of ss. call 'em and let us know how it goes. then when you are done spend another 15 min pulling another 10 names. meanwhile i'll stick to dialing 55-65 $150k+ in investable assets and within an hour i will have AT LEAST double the amount of contacts. period. If you think you kind buy a list that verifies this information (actually verifies not computer modeling) then I have some stuff to sell you too...Though i agree with you, I also agree with Spiff, since I have done both

pimpin_aint_easy's picture
Joined: 2010-09-28

squash...how many calls did you make last month? huh, huh, huh....thats what i though.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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So, you paid someone for a list of people with $150k in investable assets?  How can they prove to you that there are $150K in assets in that household?  I've always been suspicious of lists like that.  I bought one last year.  It was supposed to be people with $150k in investable assets who are looking for a new advisor.  I asked the list people how they confirmed that the people had the $$.  They told me some crap about how they did it.  Sounded legit.  Sent out intro letters to the people on the list, then went to ring their doorbells.  The very first door I knocked on the lady opened the door and told me they were flat broke.  The second, same story.  Hmm...something's fishy.  So, I took a different approach.  I started cold calling them.  90% of the phone numbers were disconnected.  One even rang through to a detective's desk here at our local sherriff's office.   I'd bet that if you gave me that list and I doorknocked those folks instead of calling them, when we're both through the list, I"ll have made double the number of contacts as you have.  It's goes back to doorbells don't have caller ID.  And while I was at that one door on that street, I'd also look for the open garage doors and ring those doorbells too, just to see what shakes out.  You guys can down play doorknocking all you want, but it's a great way to meet people and gather real prospects. 

SuperMan's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-18

Find a community you think has money.  Whitepage it.  Knock on the houses that have phones numbers.  Ask the people if its okay to contact them again with a good idea. You've address the DNC concern, have their number and don't have to ask for it, and you are very targeted in your approach.  This is not rocket science.

squash2's picture
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pimpin_aint_easy wrote:squash...how many calls did you make last month? huh, huh, huh....thats what i though.Really from the guy who couldn't hit first quarter goals at a wire (Goal 1: Have a pulse, Goal 2: Don't be a dick Goal 3: Open an account in 3 months)... 

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SuperMan wrote:Find a community you think has money.  Whitepage it.  Knock on the houses that have phones numbers.  Ask the people if its okay to contact them again with a good idea. You've address the DNC concern, have their number and don't have to ask for it, and you are very targeted in your approach.  This is not rocket science.How many people really remember you knocking on their door? Is it fairly high if you call back in two weeks?Door knocking is something that I find difficult to do because i hate people that come to my door. I am respectful because I know they are trying to make a living but still I just can't bring myself to bother someone in a way that I would find bothersome.

SuperMan's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-18

ND ... Almost everyone remembers you.  Think about it, how many professionals actually take the time to go out and meet people these days.  Its odd.  It can be a competitive advantage, if you embrace it and make it so.When I was full on door knocking every day 80+% of the people I met gave me their numbers.  It's really not a bothersome process, just uncomfortable to for the sales person doing it.  My goal these days is to find 1 - 2 people that really need my help each day, that appreciate what I can do for them.  Low hanging fruit.  Damn I need to prospect some next week :)

BigFirepower's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-09

Ok, so the last time I used CIS in a big way, was in about 2002. My leads included the month and year the client was born. When I checked, or opened a new account, they were always accurate. I did buy a list from CIS within the last two years, but didn't do much with the list. I think we had about 2500 names and addys, but only about 200 phone numbers. I've concluded for my biz, that cold calling is something our practice isn't going to be doing. Networking, alliances, referrals, and acquisition is how our firm is going to grow moving forward. Due to a variety of situations, I'm probably not going to be able to focus on that til next year. And, if Bond Guy says something, it pays to listen. That guy is like EF Hutton....

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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That was exactly what felt about doorknocking.  I had maybe 2 situations that were unpleasant.  One was a big dog that just missed my Achilles tendon, but got the cuff of my pants instead.  I sent the homeowner a thank you card with a bill for a new pair of pants.  For some reason he's not a client.  The second was a guy who worked with AGE.  I jokingly told him he was working with the wrong STL based brokerage firm.  He didn't like that and yelled at me all the way to the next house.  The fact that I was chuckling and waving at him while he was doing it probably didn't help.  For some reason he's not a client either.  There was that time when the woman came to the door wearing...well, we'll leave it there.  My goal when I go doorknocking, which isn't anywhere near as much as it probably ought to be these days, is to find one person who I think I can turn into a client in the next two months.  SuperMan and I are thinking the exact same way.  And even in an area like mine where we have a ton of new FAs who are doorknocking the crap out of the neighborhoods around my office, people do remember who I am when I call back.  I've had people that I doorknocked 4 or 5 years ago show up in my office with my old business card and open accounts with me.  SuperMan - I also need to do some prospecting next week.  Maybe I should buy some long underwear and just get out there. 

harkkam's picture
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Spaceman Spiff wrote:I always doubt the leads people who say they've got 357 people who have 401k rollovers to do right now or that have more than $250K in managed money they'd like to move in the next 3 months.  Really?  If you're that good at finding those people, how about you and I go into biz for ourselves.  You get that info, call the people, schedule the initial appointment, and I'll take care of the rest.  We'll kill it.  I know it's a bit more time intensive, but www.whitepages.com will let you search by street and identify all the residents of the street.  Their ages are also listed. How about you pick 5-10 streets a day and call everyone over the age of 50.  I think your results would be just as good as buying a leads list.   Wouldnt most of the people be on the DNC list though?

Kresge's picture
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Joined: 2011-12-26

Anybody other than EJ FA's using doorknocking as a method of prospecting?  It seems like a decent way to target residential without worrying about the DNC list.... Wondering if incorporating this into the mix or just use that DN time into more cold calling business would result in more prospects...

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Kresge wrote:Anybody other than EJ FA's using doorknocking as a method of prospecting?  It seems like a decent way to target residential without worrying about the DNC list.... Wondering if incorporating this into the mix or just use that DN time into more cold calling business would result in more prospects... Exaclty I think door knocking or mailing would be the best way to reach residentials that are off the DNC list and effectively un reachable to new FA's that cant get refferals to these people. I would target wealthy negihboorhods with my mass marketing and door knockingCold calling is great for businesses

Hacksaw's picture
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harkkam wrote:Kresge wrote:Anybody other than EJ FA's using doorknocking as a method of prospecting?  It seems like a decent way to target residential without worrying about the DNC list.... Wondering if incorporating this into the mix or just use that DN time into more cold calling business would result in more prospects... Exaclty I think door knocking or mailing would be the best way to reach residentials that are off the DNC list and effectively un reachable to new FA's that cant get refferals to these people. I would target wealthy negihboorhods with my mass marketing and door knockingCold calling is great for businesses
Two things:
Mailings won't do jack. Unless they are expecting it, they won't open it and/or read it. Hell even if they know it's coming they won't likely read it or open it.
Most "wealthy" areas and neighborhoods have a "no solicitation" sign and policy. Just know you could be pissing people off.
Door Knocking can work, but also remember what most EJ advisor's books look like. Just figure out what kind of client base you want, then figure out how to contact those people.
There is no magic to this. You just have to work hard and hope for some luck, which is created through hard work.

harkkam's picture
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Hacksaw wrote:harkkam wrote:Kresge wrote:Anybody other than EJ FA's using doorknocking as a method of prospecting?  It seems like a decent way to target residential without worrying about the DNC list.... Wondering if incorporating this into the mix or just use that DN time into more cold calling business would result in more prospects... Exaclty I think door knocking or mailing would be the best way to reach residentials that are off the DNC list and effectively un reachable to new FA's that cant get refferals to these people. I would target wealthy negihboorhods with my mass marketing and door knockingCold calling is great for businesses
Two things:
Mailings won't do jack. Unless they are expecting it, they won't open it and/or read it. Hell even if they know it's coming they won't likely read it or open it.
Most "wealthy" areas and neighborhoods have a "no solicitation" sign and policy. Just know you could be pissing people off.
Door Knocking can work, but also remember what most EJ advisor's books look like. Just figure out what kind of client base you want, then figure out how to contact those people.
There is no magic to this. You just have to work hard and hope for some luck, which is created through hard work. I appreciate your advice but this is exactly what frustrates me about this business. When a sugegstion is given 1) Mailers2) Door Knocking The immediate result is no it wont work. Then the advice that follows is "all you have to do is try hard and work toward the business you want....."Honestly its kind of pointless to tell that to a person who realizes that and is trying to figure out a way to reach people that are not in his market space, which will result in a response such as "go find your market space"other than door knocking or mailing all that is left is trying to join events and groups that rich folks attend and trying to connect with them socially and slide business in. Like meeting people in an art gallery and striking up a conversationg with a man who is thinking about buying a 100k piece of art.This strategy is good except we have hurdles, that means money needed now and social prospecting takes a while to build so you cant pin your hopes on it. You need to do something with faster results. 

Takingnames's picture
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Man...Harkkam...dude, There is no one out here trying to talk themselves out of this business more than you. Geesh.  I think we should all hang it up if it's a hard as you say.  Gooolllllyyy. If it's this hard for you 3 months before you start, what is it going to be like when you are actually in production?All of it works.  Mailers cost $$ and compliance maze. Get your licenses and learn your company policies and try to make it work. DNC is fluid and people are transient.  People will hang up on you; and not take your calls.  Get your licenses and learn your company policies and try to make it work.Doorknocking works. The weather gets in the way and your feet will stink. Get your licenses and learn company policies and try to make it work. Seminars work.  They take time, energy and money. Get your licenses and learn company policies and try to make it work.  Networking works.  It takes time, energy and money.  One needs to fend off unqualified people and people who only want to sell to YOU.  Get your licenses learn company policy and try to make it work.   

Element's picture
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Joined: 2011-12-28

What he said.... Everything works.  Nothing works.  You've been told this before.  I'd work on my listening skills before jumping into this career.  The best advice I was given was from a really odd guy that also happened to be a million dollar producer.  He had almost no social grace or skills.  What he had was work ethic.  He said early in his career a very large producer gave him one single bit of advice.  "Figure out what you like to do and are decent at and do a ton of it."In his words ... he brute forced prospected his way to the top.  What did he do?  It does not matter!  All that matters is he did a ton of it.  If you are looking for the recipe to making it in this business, that's it.  If you are tying to figure out what works... all of it and none of it.

DonkSlayer's picture
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Joined: 2011-12-16

Bought a list from CIS last week 2084 numbers. When I got the list back from in-house scrubbing only 583 left. Hahaha. That's terrible. 

harkkam's picture
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DonkSlayer wrote:Bought a list from CIS last week 2084 numbers. When I got the list back from in-house scrubbing only 583 left. Hahaha. That's terrible.  If you dont mind how much did you pay for that list just a round figure, just so I can get an idea. Thanks bro

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Takingnames wrote:Man...Harkkam...dude, There is no one out here trying to talk themselves out of this business more than you. Geesh.  I think we should all hang it up if it's a hard as you say.  Gooolllllyyy. If it's this hard for you 3 months before you start, what is it going to be like when you are actually in production?All of it works.  Mailers cost $$ and compliance maze. Get your licenses and learn your company policies and try to make it work. DNC is fluid and people are transient.  People will hang up on you; and not take your calls.  Get your licenses and learn your company policies and try to make it work.Doorknocking works. The weather gets in the way and your feet will stink. Get your licenses and learn company policies and try to make it work. Seminars work.  They take time, energy and money. Get your licenses and learn company policies and try to make it work.  Networking works.  It takes time, energy and money.  One needs to fend off unqualified people and people who only want to sell to YOU.  Get your licenses learn company policy and try to make it work.    Sorry about my post earlier, I was a bit rough I know you are trying to help just frustrated. I think the mantra that "everything works and nothing works" is beautiful and simple rather than getting bogged down in the details of one method try all and stick to what works best. I appreciate your help its just as a young broker who is 25 years old, doesnt have any rich network, rasing 10 million my first year is very scary and daunting and makes  you doubt yourself and ask "How the hell am I going to do this? Thanks for taking the time to respond guys

KingBobby's picture
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harkkam wrote:Sorry about my post earlier, I was a bit rough I know you are trying to help just frustrated. I think the mantra that "everything works and nothing works" is beautiful and simple rather than getting bogged down in the details of one method try all and stick to what works best. I appreciate your help its just as a young broker who is 25 years old, doesnt have any rich network, rasing 10 million my first year is very scary and daunting and makes  you doubt yourself and ask "How the hell am I going to do this? Thanks for taking the time to respond guysJust call businesses and find the $, you'll never run out of #'s.  

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Joined: 2007-11-09

harkkam wrote:Takingnames wrote:Man...Harkkam...dude, There is no one out here trying to talk themselves out of this business more than you. Geesh.  I think we should all hang it up if it's a hard as you say.  Gooolllllyyy. If it's this hard for you 3 months before you start, what is it going to be like when you are actually in production?All of it works.  Mailers cost $$ and compliance maze. Get your licenses and learn your company policies and try to make it work. DNC is fluid and people are transient.  People will hang up on you; and not take your calls.  Get your licenses and learn your company policies and try to make it work.Doorknocking works. The weather gets in the way and your feet will stink. Get your licenses and learn company policies and try to make it work. Seminars work.  They take time, energy and money. Get your licenses and learn company policies and try to make it work.  Networking works.  It takes time, energy and money.  One needs to fend off unqualified people and people who only want to sell to YOU.  Get your licenses learn company policy and try to make it work.    Sorry about my post earlier, I was a bit rough I know you are trying to help just frustrated. I think the mantra that "everything works and nothing works" is beautiful and simple rather than getting bogged down in the details of one method try all and stick to what works best. I appreciate your help its just as a young broker who is 25 years old, doesnt have any rich network, rasing 10 million my first year is very scary and daunting and makes  you doubt yourself and ask "How the hell am I going to do this? Thanks for taking the time to respond guys You will dodge, weave and you'll be sick. You'll make huge mistakes. You will learn from all of it. We were all 25 too.  It's going to be tough. Really tough.  Don't overthink it. I've said it before, I'll say it again. It's like working out or practicing for a sport .There is mental game and yes, there is physical game. You just keep hitting it bit by bit.  

DonkSlayer's picture
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Joined: 2011-12-16

Mine were .10 a name

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