What do you Cold Call With?

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FreeLunch's picture
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Prefferred?
Municipal Bond/Closed End?
Mutual fund?  Stocks?
or
Service
- I used a script I saw on this website - I thought it was a great script and it went something like this....(cc product)
"The reason I called is b/c I wanted to share a quick investment idea with you that...."
WHAT HAS EXPERIENCE SHOWN YOU TO BE THE BEST WAY TO COLD CALL         &n bsp;  (I know we've covered this before, but..)

bondo's picture
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A phone.
It varies for me.  I prefer product calls.  I rotate between UIT's, tax exempt money markets, CDs, and if I can find a bond I like. 

FreeLunch's picture
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Lol - Thanks
Whats your favorite/easiest. (besides CDs)
 

troll's picture
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UIT's. They have a deadline and you can tell them that most people don't know about them because they don't pay us very well. It will make them question their own brokers motives.

wallstreeter's picture
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Bobby Hull wrote:UIT's. They have a deadline and you can tell them that most people don't know about them because they don't pay us very well. It will make them question their own brokers motives.
Don't pay as well relative to what?  If it is an annuity, then that is true.  If you might typically invest in mutual fund C shares, then they pay better.
Also, what makes this series better than the one 3 months from now?

troll's picture
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wallstreeter wrote:
Bobby Hull wrote:UIT's. They have a deadline and you can tell them that most people don't know about them because they don't pay us very well. It will make them question their own brokers motives.
Don't pay as well relative to what?  If it is an annuity, then that is true.  If you might typically invest in mutual fund C shares, then they pay better.
Also, what makes this series better than the one 3 months from now?

Use your brain.

wallstreeter's picture
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Bobby Hull wrote:wallstreeter wrote:
Bobby Hull wrote:UIT's. They have a deadline and you can tell them that most people don't know about them because they don't pay us very well. It will make them question their own brokers motives.
Don't pay as well relative to what?  If it is an annuity, then that is true.  If you might typically invest in mutual fund C shares, then they pay better.
Also, what makes this series better than the one 3 months from now?

Use your brain.

Ok, in all seriousness, how did your UIT portfolios hold up in 2000?  This is legitimate as I was not in the business at that time.  Did you have any UITs that blew up?

troll's picture
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In 2000?
I had a tech UIT that I bought in 1999 that was up over 100% by February of 2000. I was holding out to wait for the 1 year 1 day aversary so that we could take long term gains.
The market burped and all of a sudden I was up less than 100% but I was going to hold out for the bounce that had come so many times before.... It came, I sold! IT TANKED!
I slipped the dough into some funds that also tanked, but never so badly as the tech UIT I had stepped out of.
Point is that your question is dumb. UITs are made of specific portfolios and they are unmanaged so that there is nobody deciding to "go to cash" other than the broker. If the stocks in the UIT are going down, the UIT is going down ( and, believe me EVERYFRICKINTHING went down in 2000! Even "up" went "down" in 2000! You have no idea what a bear market is until you've lived through two or three of them)!

troll's picture
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wallstreeter wrote:Bobby Hull wrote:wallstreeter wrote:
Bobby Hull wrote:UIT's. They have a deadline and you can tell them that most people don't know about them because they don't pay us very well. It will make them question their own brokers motives.
Don't pay as well relative to what?  If it is an annuity, then that is true.  If you might typically invest in mutual fund C shares, then they pay better.
Also, what makes this series better than the one 3 months from now?

Use your brain.

Ok, in all seriousness, how did your UIT portfolios hold up in 2000?  This is legitimate as I was not in the business at that time.  Did you have any UITs that blew up?

Up 5.69%. One of the five was down 4.34%. Is that a blow up?

Vin Diesel's picture
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I like uit's. ive had good experience with large cap dividend stocks. but bad experience with fixed income uit's. the rips a decent too

Ashland's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-07

I liked them until I found out that's all BH does(inside his VA's, of course). I haven't sold one in about a month, now!

bondo's picture
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wallstreeter wrote:Bobby Hull wrote:wallstreeter wrote:
Bobby Hull wrote:UIT's. They have a deadline and you can tell them that most people don't know about them because they don't pay us very well. It will make them question their own brokers motives.
Don't pay as well relative to what?  If it is an annuity, then that is true.  If you might typically invest in mutual fund C shares, then they pay better.
Also, what makes this series better than the one 3 months from now?

Use your brain.

Ok, in all seriousness, how did your UIT portfolios hold up in 2000?  This is legitimate as I was not in the business at that time.  Did you have any UITs that blew up?

I wasn't in the business then, but the one I use last had a down year in 1994.

wallstreeter's picture
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Is there any explainable reason why some of these UITs have such great track records when compared to regular mutual funds?  I guess it might be easy to think that because there is active management, if something happens in the market, the manager could just move to cash with a mutual fund, but based on the returns, that seems wrong.  Is the UITs stock screener that good or is it something else?
Basically, what do some of these UITs do that make them so good?

FreeLunch's picture
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wallstreeter wrote:
Is there any explainable reason why some of these UITs have such great track records when compared to regular mutual funds?  I guess it might be easy to think that because there is active management, if something happens in the market, the manager could just move to cash with a mutual fund, but based on the returns, that seems wrong.  Is the UITs stock screener that good or is it something else?
Basically, what do some of these UITs do that make them so good?

Good Question.
I had a wholesaler convince me that the ValueLine Trust was going to provide unbelievable returns - The September '05
It had annual returns of 22% plus on average.
Yep - It went down 15+% ....needless to say, I haven't done anymore

anonymous's picture
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I like UIT's, but you have to be very careful about how much meaning you take from the past  performance #'s.  Keep in mind, that you are looking at something that can't be purchased.  ie.  Somebody who bought a mutual fund 6 months ago owns the exact same fund as someone who buys it today.  You can't buy the UIT that somebody bought 6 months ago.  It has the same description, but it is a completely different UIT.
I think that the lack of daily active management is a positive.  High turnover really hurts the returns of many mutual funds.  UITs also have the advantage of less money in cash.   The fact that a UIT has fewer holdings also gives it the ability to have higher or lower returns. 
Yep - It went down 15+% ....needless to say, I haven't done anymore
It's also very possible that if you bought it one month sooner or one month later, your returns could have been very different.

troll's picture
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FreeLunch wrote:wallstreeter wrote:
Is there any explainable reason why some of these UITs have such great track records when compared to regular mutual funds?  I guess it might be easy to think that because there is active management, if something happens in the market, the manager could just move to cash with a mutual fund, but based on the returns, that seems wrong.  Is the UITs stock screener that good or is it something else?
Basically, what do some of these UITs do that make them so good?

Good Question.
I had a wholesaler convince me that the ValueLine Trust was going to provide unbelievable returns - The September '05
It had annual returns of 22% plus on average.
Yep - It went down 15+% ....needless to say, I haven't done anymore

What an ameteur. Can't stick to a strategy. You're making the same stupid mistake that most investors make. How do you add value?

wallstreeter's picture
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anonymous wrote:
I like UIT's, but you have to be very careful about how much meaning you take from the past  performance #'s.  Keep in mind, that you are looking at something that can't be purchased.  ie.  Somebody who bought a mutual fund 6 months ago owns the exact same fund as someone who buys it today.  You can't buy the UIT that somebody bought 6 months ago.  It has the same description, but it is a completely different UIT.
I think that the lack of daily active management is a positive.  High turnover really hurts the returns of many mutual funds.  UITs also have the advantage of less money in cash.   The fact that a UIT has fewer holdings also gives it the ability to have higher or lower returns. 
Yep - It went down 15+% ....needless to say, I haven't done anymore
It's also very possible that if you bought it one month sooner or one month later, your returns could have been very different.

So Anon, say you buy into a certain company's UIT because you see the returns and think they must be doing something right.  Obviously it doesn't mean they will continue to, but that's why you choose their process.  If the UIT is down and the market is looking fairly weak at best, would you sell out of the UIT or continue to hold being that you have subscribed to their 15 month cycle?  I guess what I'm getting at is that when buying a UIT, you put a lot of faith in the stocks they have picked to hold in your series.  I mean you could've bought a UIT in January a few years ago without Enron in it, and then bought the same company's UIT with Enron in April (I know it would take more than one stock to have a big impact, but i think you get the picture).  How much "managing" do you do with your UIT accounts?

FreeLunch's picture
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I tell you what.
give me a $100,000
I'll be 7-8 Stocks for you, all with these criteria.
* Market cap less than $50 Billion, Greater than $5 Billion
* PEG Ratio less than 1.2
* Profit Margin > 25%, Debt/Equity < .5
 
WE'LL CALL IT THE 1 YEAR FREELUNCH UIT.
 

AllREIT's picture
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wallstreeter wrote:Is there any explainable reason why some of
these UITs have such great track records when compared to regular
mutual funds?  I guess it might be easy to think that because
there is active management, if something happens in the market, the
manager could just move to cash with a mutual fund, but based on the
returns, that seems wrong.  Is the UITs stock screener that good
or is it something else?
Basically, what do some of these UITs do that make them so good?

Nothing, UIT's get marketed based on backtested strategies.

So if a particular strategy tested badly, then it won't get cast into a
UIT. UIT's are classic examples of the problems of data-mining and
selection bias.

If a UIT strategy continues to do well, they keep marketing it, if not, find a new one. Hence you see very few "stock pick" UIT's that have been offered for a long time (e.g since before the 2002 crash)

If UIT strategies were so good, you would see tons of other investment
vehicles offering similar strategies (e.g loads of mutual funds, ETFs,
etc)

BondGuy's picture
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anonymous wrote:
 Somebody who bought a mutual fund 6 months ago owns the exact same fund as someone who buys it today.  You can't buy the UIT that somebody bought 6 months ago.  It has the same description, but it is a completely different UIT.

This is not quite right. A mutual fund mgr can roll over a fund's entire portfolio within six months. The two buyers could be getting very different funds. As for the UIT, true if the UIT is of a different series. If the UIT is the same series then it exactly what the previouous investor purchased.
UIT's and MF's have their advantages. There is research that shows a static portfolio will outperform a managed portfolio. Especially in a down market. The active portfolio is beset with incorrect mgr input. AT least that's the theory. 
One advantage of a passive porfolio is knowing exactly what is owned. Another is the buy and hold nature of these porfolios.
As for the sectors or strategy UITs, yes more risky, but also more rewarding when they ework. If you believe a certain sector will benefit from an event or cycle in the economy sector UITs are another arrow in the quiver. They are really great for wave theorist. And usually the last place you want to be in a serious down market.
I use UITs and agree they are great for prospecting.

Vin Diesel's picture
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uit's work great in banks too. they have maturities just like cd's
 

NaturaLogarithm's picture
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FreeLunch wrote:
"The reason I called is b/c I wanted to share a quick investment idea with you that...."
Sounds like something a penny pusher would say.
 
I tell them what I do and how I can help them preserve their wealth and maximize opportunities of making money in the markets.

FreeLunch's picture
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[quote=NaturaLogarithm
I tell them what I do and how I can help them preserve their wealth and maximize opportunities of making money in the markets.

 
Man - Thats the most fantastic advice I've ever received!  Where did you come up with that?

AllREIT's picture
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wallstreeter wrote:Is there any explainable reason why some of these UITs have such great track records when compared to regular mutual funds?

1) Backtesting.
2) No active management to "add value"

anonymous's picture
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If the UIT is down and the market is looking fairly weak at best, would you sell out of the UIT or continue to hold being that you have subscribed to their 15 month cycle? 
I don't try to time the market.  The market never looks strong or weak to me.  It always looks the same.  I don't have a clue as to whether it will go up or down today.  If I liked something when it was worth $10 a share, shouldn't I like it even more at $8 a share?   Typically, if I make an investment change for the client, something has changed about the client, not the market.  They are closer to their financial goal, the investments need rebalancing, etc.

anonymous's picture
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This is not quite right. A mutual fund mgr can roll over a fund's entire portfolio within six months. The two buyers could be getting very different funds.
Bondguy, they are getting the exact same fund.  It is now July.  Person A bought the fund in January.  Person B bought the fund in March.  Person C bought the fund in June.  They all own the exact same investment.  Their holdings are identical. 
This would not be accurate if it was a UIT.

troll's picture
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anonymous wrote:
This is not quite right. A mutual fund mgr can roll over a fund's entire portfolio within six months. The two buyers could be getting very different funds.
Bondguy, they are getting the exact same fund.  It is now July.  Person A bought the fund in January.  Person B bought the fund in March.  Person C bought the fund in June.  They all own the exact same investment.  Their holdings are identical. 
This would not be accurate if it was a UIT.

Really? Same allocation? Same embedded CG's? Same everything?

anonymous's picture
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The fund on July 31st has the same holdings regardless of when the person purchased the fund.  That is all that I'm saying.
Someone who purchases the January series ABC UIT has different holdings than the person who purchases the February series ABC UIT. 
 

troll's picture
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anonymous wrote:
The fund on July 31st has the same holdings regardless of when the person purchased the fund.  That is all that I'm saying.
Someone who purchases the January series ABC UIT has different holdings than the person who purchases the February series ABC UIT. 
 

Don't mind me. Go back to arguing about MF's with someone who calls himself "BONDguy."

BondGuy's picture
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Bobby Hull wrote:anonymous wrote:
The fund on July 31st has the same holdings regardless of when the person purchased the fund.  That is all that I'm saying.
Someone who purchases the January series ABC UIT has different holdings than the person who purchases the February series ABC UIT. 
 

Don't mind me. Go back to arguing about MF's with someone who calls himself "BONDguy."

Is my lack of fund knowledge that transparent?
 

BondGuy's picture
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anonymous wrote:
This is not quite right. A mutual fund mgr can roll over a fund's entire portfolio within six months. The two buyers could be getting very different funds.
Bondguy, they are getting the exact same fund.  It is now July.  Person A bought the fund in January.  Person B bought the fund in March.  Person C bought the fund in June.  They all own the exact same investment.  Their holdings are identical. 
This would not be accurate if it was a UIT.

Aon, you are speaking of the one and only mutual fund with a static portfolio? If that is the case what is the use of active management? And why are shareholders paying these guys?
The point you make with UITs is correct. However, whatever UIT holdings you buy, you keep for the life of the UIT. So while series 5 may be somewhat different than series four, the holdings within these series never change. Of course there are a few exceptions.
Meanwhile, over at Mutual funds of America, the holding change on a daily basis, with some funds experiencing a 100% plus annual rollover rate. Which, strangely enough, is exactly what their shareholders are paying them to do. Well, except for the fund that you mentioned.

shadow191's picture
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I think the point anon is making is that no matter when you bought the fund whether it is January, March, or June, by July, everyone holding the fund will own the same thing.  They will have all bought different portofolios, but by July they will all hold the same portfolio.  With the UIT's of course, whatever they would have bought in January, March or June would stay static and would be different from each other in July.  Of course this doesn't mean much since they likely all have very different gains or losses in the holding. 
 
BondGuy wrote:anonymous wrote:
This is not quite right. A mutual fund mgr can roll over a fund's entire portfolio within six months. The two buyers could be getting very different funds.
Bondguy, they are getting the exact same fund.  It is now July.  Person A bought the fund in January.  Person B bought the fund in March.  Person C bought the fund in June.  They all own the exact same investment.  Their holdings are identical. 
This would not be accurate if it was a UIT.

Aon, you are speaking of the one and only mutual fund with a static portfolio? If that is the case what is the use of active management? And why are shareholders paying these guys?
The point you make with UITs is correct. However, whatever UIT holdings you buy, you keep for the life of the UIT. So while series 5 may be somewhat different than series four, the holdings within these series never change. Of course there are a few exceptions.
Meanwhile, over at Mutual funds of America, the holding change on a daily basis, with some funds experiencing a 100% plus annual rollover rate. Which, strangely enough, is exactly what their shareholders are paying them to do. Well, except for the fund that you mentioned.

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Bondguy, you are missing my point.
Bondguy buys Mutual Fund of America on January 1st.Anonymous busy Mutual Fund of America on March 13th.
It is now July 31st.  Bondguy and Anonymous own the same investment. 
The holdings inside of the investment change.  The investment does not.  Everyone who buys Mutual Fund of America owns the same thing.  It does not matter when they made the purchase.  It does not matter if the turnover is 200%, 100%, or zero.
I'm not saying that Bond Guy and Anonymous bought the same underlying portfolio at time of purchase. The underlying portfolio is always changing, thus all new purchasers will always be buying what existing shareholders currently own.

troll's picture
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anonymous wrote:
Bondguy, you are missing my point.
Bondguy buys Mutual Fund of America on January 1st.Anonymous busy Mutual Fund of America on March 13th.
It is now July 31st.  Bondguy and Anonymous own the same investment. 
The holdings inside of the investment change.  The investment does not.  Everyone who buys Mutual Fund of America owns the same thing.  It does not matter when they made the purchase.  It does not matter if the turnover is 200%, 100%, or zero.
I'm not saying that Bond Guy and Anonymous bought the same underlying portfolio at time of purchase. The underlying portfolio is always changing, thus all new purchasers will always be buying what existing shareholders currently own.

We get your point, but we have no clue as to why you're making it. What's the point to your point?

anonymous's picture
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We get your point
Yes, but BondGuy doesn't, yet.

BondGuy's picture
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BondGuy wrote:anonymous wrote:
 Somebody who bought a mutual fund 6 months ago owns the exact same fund as someone who buys it today.  You can't buy the UIT that somebody bought 6 months ago.  It has the same description, but it is a completely different UIT.

Anon, I see your point. I took you to mean portfolio when you meant fund name.
 
 

Wildcat_02's picture
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My thoughts... take time to actually do some background research on the person you're calling.  HNW individuals get calls constantly if they're not DNC.  Stand out by showing them you actually know one damn thing about them and can relate.
One word:  GOOGLE.

brandnewadvisor's picture
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Wildcat_02 wrote:
My thoughts... take time to actually do some background research on the person you're calling.  HNW individuals get calls constantly if they're not DNC.  Stand out by showing them you actually know one damn thing about them and can relate.
One word:  GOOGLE.

If some a-hole calls me during dinner and knows more about me than my wife I promptly hang up the phone, close the driveway gate, enable the alarm system and curse google in my sleep.  Rich people don't want broke rookie brokers to know all about them.

troll's picture
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I've done countless focus groups regarding investor's attitudes and one of the things that comes through loud and clear was tossed into the above post.
When asked how they respond to cold solicitations of any type--but especially cold calls--the universal reaction is that it's a new broker on the phone and there really isn't much reason to talk to them.
As we all know the best thing you can have is a referral, and you have to become comfortable about asking for them.
You hear about guys who will ask angry clients for referrals.  I've personally never seen it happen but you do hear about it.  That's major chutzpah, but it's chutzpah like that that creates winners in this business.
You have to cold call--it's a truth that is as old as the phone system.  However what you do not need to do is verify the prospect's negative impression by sounding stupid or scripted.
If you're reading a script the client CAN TELL no matter how you figure they can't.  There's a good way to get rid of a script--it's called knowing what you're talking about.
If your voice conveys the impression you're a dummy try to change it. I'm American by birth, but Southern by the grace of God and I know I sound a bit like a bumpkin--I turn one sylable words into two.
I'm not talking, "Me and Bubba were out here fishing when the spaceship landed over yonder" type stuff--but nobody would mistake me for being from Long Island or the Tidewater area.
I, like many, had to really practice how I spoke, what I said, how I said it and so forth.
None of us like to hear our own voices on a recorder, but they can be excellent tools for making changes.  Buy one of those suction cup things for your phone--tape your calls for an hour then listen to them that evening.  Don't worry about  your accent unless it is so out of the ordinary that it makes the listener not hear what you're saying because they're so fascinated by the accent.
Instead listen to what you're saying.  Could you say it in fewer words?  Is it germain to the subject at hand?  Did you sound relaxed and conversational?
DID YOU LISTEN, or did you talk?

blarmston's picture
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See Putsy? Now that was a post that actually contained some value. Nice work old man.

pretzelhead's picture
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DATwo wrote:
I've done countless focus groups regarding investor's attitudes and one of the things that comes through loud and clear was tossed into the above post.
When asked how they respond to cold solicitations of any type--but especially cold calls--the universal reaction is that it's a new broker on the phone and there really isn't much reason to talk to them.
As we all know the best thing you can have is a referral, and you have to become comfortable about asking for them.
You hear about guys who will ask angry clients for referrals.  I've personally never seen it happen but you do hear about it.  That's major chutzpah, but it's chutzpah like that that creates winners in this business.
You have to cold call--it's a truth that is as old as the phone system.  However what you do not need to do is verify the prospect's negative impression by sounding stupid or scripted.
If you're reading a script the client CAN TELL no matter how you figure they can't.  There's a good way to get rid of a script--it's called knowing what you're talking about.
If your voice conveys the impression you're a dummy try to change it. I'm American by birth, but Southern by the grace of God and I know I sound a bit like a bumpkin--I turn one sylable words into two.
I'm not talking, "Me and Bubba were out here fishing when the spaceship landed over yonder" type stuff--but nobody would mistake me for being from Long Island or the Tidewater area.
I, like many, had to really practice how I spoke, what I said, how I said it and so forth.
None of us like to hear our own voices on a recorder, but they can be excellent tools for making changes.  Buy one of those suction cup things for your phone--tape your calls for an hour then listen to them that evening.  Don't worry about  your accent unless it is so out of the ordinary that it makes the listener not hear what you're saying because they're so fascinated by the accent.
Instead listen to what you're saying.  Could you say it in fewer words?  Is it germain to the subject at hand?  Did you sound relaxed and conversational?
DID YOU LISTEN, or did you talk?

Thanks R2D2, that was a thoughtful and helpful post. 

BondGuy's picture
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DATwo wrote:
I've done countless focus groups regarding investor's attitudes and one of the things that comes through loud and clear was tossed into the above post.
When asked how they respond to cold solicitations of any type--but especially cold calls--the universal reaction is that it's a new broker on the phone and there really isn't much reason to talk to them.
As we all know the best thing you can have is a referral, and you have to become comfortable about asking for them.
You hear about guys who will ask angry clients for referrals.  I've personally never seen it happen but you do hear about it.  That's major chutzpah, but it's chutzpah like that that creates winners in this business.
You have to cold call--it's a truth that is as old as the phone system.  However what you do not need to do is verify the prospect's negative impression by sounding stupid or scripted.
If you're reading a script the client CAN TELL no matter how you figure they can't.  There's a good way to get rid of a script--it's called knowing what you're talking about.
If your voice conveys the impression you're a dummy try to change it. I'm American by birth, but Southern by the grace of God and I know I sound a bit like a bumpkin--I turn one sylable words into two.
I'm not talking, "Me and Bubba were out here fishing when the spaceship landed over yonder" type stuff--but nobody would mistake me for being from Long Island or the Tidewater area.
I, like many, had to really practice how I spoke, what I said, how I said it and so forth.
None of us like to hear our own voices on a recorder, but they can be excellent tools for making changes.  Buy one of those suction cup things for your phone--tape your calls for an hour then listen to them that evening.  Don't worry about  your accent unless it is so out of the ordinary that it makes the listener not hear what you're saying because they're so fascinated by the accent.
Instead listen to what you're saying.  Could you say it in fewer words?  Is it germain to the subject at hand?  Did you sound relaxed and conversational?
DID YOU LISTEN, or did you talk?

Good post!

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