Promissory Note: Can't Pay Back...

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ILoveMyJob's picture
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Joined: 2005-10-26

Still owe $100K on a Promissory Note to BAI.  I can't!  I left BAI 6 months ago to go independent and they want their money.  I don't have any.  Bank of America said I need to pay it NOW or they will initiate an arbitration hearing.What do I do?  What is involved with the arbitration hearing?  What is a "acceptable arrangement?"Any help, Thanks!

Doksee's picture
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Joined: 2009-03-02

To point out the obvious, hire an experienced lawyer. Wouldn't a 5k retainer on deposit (probably) buy you (a lot) of time? Then, you could just wait for BOA to go under.

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

Not to be be a jerk, but why did you leave if you owed $100K??

ILoveMyJob's picture
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Joined: 2005-10-26

Banc of America/Merrill Lynch - enough said!?

trailman's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-21

Squash and Ice,
 
You guys should join Banc of America.  You will quickly realize that ilovemyjob did the right thing.  It is really that bad of a place.  That is like telling some guy who got divorced and lost half of his stuff to his crazy ex that he should have thought of the consequences first. 

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

q

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

Fair enough, but why the he!! did he spend the 100K?? What did he do with it? Whatever he did with it, he should undo it. I'm guessing he either blew it on crap like c ars and wide-screens, or bought a house. And then he blew whatever money he had remaining to build out that phat new indy office. I thought being indy was like Nirvana? Money coming out of every orefice, clients lined up outside the door, ACAT's pouring in, web-server overloaded with all the hits to his website. Man, no idea what's happening here.

It's basically the equivalent of me coming on here and saying "I can't pay my credit card bill, what do I do?"

It's a freakin loan, he has to pay it. Everyone wants their damn bailout.

trailman's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-21

I do not know the specifics of his situation.  However, maybe he walked into a situation where he had to live on the money.  Perhaps, the move turned out to be a disaster.  I know a lot of guys who went there and left.  Each one had horror stories to tell.  He is not saying what do I do, instead what are exceptable arrangements.  i.e. has anyone left BAI and settled on a note?

ILoveMyJob's picture
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Joined: 2005-10-26

It sound's like your perfect...I should have come to you for advice.  The market being down 60% might have something to do with it But the circumstances are not always black and white and you don't need to know my story.  All I am asking:  have there been arrangements made to pay this back over time. 

Mucho de Tejas's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-08

For those of you who question why he left knowing he still owed:
 
Unless you have been recruited to, and worked for, Banc of America Investment Services Inc. (BAISI), you will never understand. BAC lied and deceptively recruited on so many fronts to hundreds of advisors it was criminal. Unfortunately, they don't think so and apparently neither does FINRA because BAC pays their bills. They are corporate bastards and I hope they implode.
 
I am not going to offer any specific advice as I am going through an arbitration with them now over the exact same issue but had I to do it all over, I would have represented myself in arbitration and had they won, I would have let them get a judgement on me, let it go into collections, and settled for pennies on the dollar in 7 years.
 
A question for Mr. Singer - is there any possible avenue available to file a class action suit against a FINRA registered, financial services company for deceptive recruiting practices and/or breach of contract or must everything go through arbitration? What recourse do employees have, if any?

Mucho de Tejas's picture
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rrbdlawyer wrote: _popupControl(); Mucho de Tejas:
 
From a lawyer's perspective, one of the blessings of the American legal systems is that is you have the bucks (and a good faith claim), you can file almost any case.  Could there be a Class Action for deceptive hiring practices? Sure.  On the other hand, how sympathetic do you think a jury will be towards those poor, underpaid brokers on Wall Street?  These are tough times.  Similarly, this is a perfect example as to why RRs needed and need a trade group or even some unionization (I'm not a fan of the latter idea).  There are several hundred thousand RRs and yet you folks continue to let yourself be picked off and diluted when it comes to negotiating your employment relationships.
 
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/reneged
 
v. re·neged, re·neg·ing, re·neges

1. To fail to carry out a promise or commitment: reneged on the contract at the last minute.
 
I'll admit it, I had no way of holding them accountable for what they promised other than good faith. And when they reneged (see above) on their promises, I was left holding the bag. Whatever happened to a man's word is good as gold? It went to hell with BAC stock price.
 
Part of their recruiting ploy was to recruit newer LOS ML reps who had never gone through a transfer of b/ds, much less the negotiations. And that has been documented. Criminal, I tell you.
 
I learned from it.

trailman's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-21

I second Mucho's response.  They lied to everyone they recruited and worked for them.  They are so arrogant that they don't care who they screw because they are BAC.  The funny thing is that this arrogance let them take over Merrill probably thinking they could just screw them as well.  Well as it turns out, mother Merrill had a little poison pill for them to choke on.  I have never felt closer or more admiration for mother Merrill.  I do fell sorry for all the Merrill guys because they have no idea what is about to happen to them.  First they will take your clients, than your trails, than your payout, your flexibility, your freedom.  Like Mucho said unless you have worked there, you will never understand.

Mr. Singer, your points are well taken.  However, I have a dozen contacts in my area who all say we should sue.  From an attorney's perspective, does it make sense to pursue?

whalehunter's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-28

Add me to your list.

fritz's picture
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Joined: 2006-01-12

trailman wrote:
I do not know the specifics of his situation.  However, maybe he walked into a situation where he had to live on the money.  Perhaps, the move turned out to be a disaster.  I know a lot of guys who went there and left.  Each one had horror stories to tell.  He is not saying what do I do, instead what are exceptable arrangements.  i.e. has anyone left BAI and settled on a note?
 
Know a guy who left in December, he owes about 350K, he has offered to pay taxes and not one penny.   Things kind of at a standstill... He said two guys who left 3 months prior did not pay back.  Do not know how its going to play out.  But he will push hard to pay them nothing as he really believes the place ruined his business.  He went to MS.
 
Above guy got a check so he has money, but bottom line is if you do not have the money what can they do?  You will make payments on the taxes and the rest will either be wiped out or you make payments for the next 20 years, couple hundred bucks a month.  You would pay your taxes on 100K, say 35K, and them offer them 10K on the remaining 65K and that should be the end of it.

Conrad Dobler's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-11

fritz wrote:trailman wrote:
I do not know the specifics of his situation.  However, maybe he walked into a situation where he had to live on the money.  Perhaps, the move turned out to be a disaster.  I know a lot of guys who went there and left.  Each one had horror stories to tell.  He is not saying what do I do, instead what are exceptable arrangements.  i.e. has anyone left BAI and settled on a note?
 
Know a guy who left in December, he owes about 350K, he has offered to pay taxes and not one penny.   Things kind of at a standstill... He said two guys who left 3 months prior did not pay back.  Do not know how its going to play out.  But he will push hard to pay them nothing as he really believes the place ruined his business.  He went to MS.
 
Above guy got a check so he has money, but bottom line is if you do not have the money what can they do?  You will make payments on the taxes and the rest will either be wiped out or you make payments for the next 20 years, couple hundred bucks a month.  You would pay your taxes on 100K, say 35K, and them offer them 10K on the remaining 65K and that should be the end of it.
 
Did BoA try to hold up his license tranfer since he owed them money? How did MS handle that?

fritz's picture
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Joined: 2006-01-12

Conrad Dobler wrote:fritz wrote:trailman wrote:
I do not know the specifics of his situation.  However, maybe he walked into a situation where he had to live on the money.  Perhaps, the move turned out to be a disaster.  I know a lot of guys who went there and left.  Each one had horror stories to tell.  He is not saying what do I do, instead what are exceptable arrangements.  i.e. has anyone left BAI and settled on a note?
 
Know a guy who left in December, he owes about 350K, he has offered to pay taxes and not one penny.   Things kind of at a standstill... He said two guys who left 3 months prior did not pay back.  Do not know how its going to play out.  But he will push hard to pay them nothing as he really believes the place ruined his business.  He went to MS.
 
Above guy got a check so he has money, but bottom line is if you do not have the money what can they do?  You will make payments on the taxes and the rest will either be wiped out or you make payments for the next 20 years, couple hundred bucks a month.  You would pay your taxes on 100K, say 35K, and them offer them 10K on the remaining 65K and that should be the end of it.
 
Did BoA try to hold up his license tranfer since he owed them money? How did MS handle that?
 
No, he left mid December and no problems.  Only couple of written things with B of A.  He has responeded only that he will pay the taxes and nothing else.  They really have not pushed anything, he is surprised.  Maybe so many people leaving they are backed up?

Mucho de Tejas's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-08

iceco1d wrote:I feel for that aspect..BUT you have to know that when you "take a check" - you are a servant for x years.  That's part of the deal.  There is no "free lunch."  If someone is going to give you a few hundred thousand dollars to switch employers, you have to assume you are going to for it somehow. 
 
Ice,
Many of those who "took a check" took it under the premise that the job description as described was the truth, it wasn't. This is a classic case of "bait and switch" and it is documented over and over with BAI.
 
Let's say I recruit you AWAY FROM YOUR CURRENT JOB AS A DITCH DIGGER to dig a ditch 100 yards long for me. I will supply the shovel and we agree on a fair compensation in that the faster you complete the job, the more you can earn for your efforts AND I will give you a quarter of the amount you earn upfront as an incentive to quickly come work for me. You calculate that with a good shovel, you can earn a great amount so you ASSUME that the shovel is good and things should go smoothly. You even ask to see the shovel in which I show you this brand new, sturdy shovel. You verbally accept the job and when you get to the new job site, there is a old shovel that is broken. Unfortunately, you can't go back to your old job because the boss is pissed that you left him and he already filled your position with another laborer and gave him your old shovel. Also, to receive the upfront money, you signed a contract saying you were going to fulfill your obligations to dig that ditch.
 
First, you complain to me that the shovel I provided is not the shovel I showed you during the interview. I tell you that I never promised that I would provide THAT shovel. Then, you complain to the workforce commission that you were sold a bill of goods. They review the contract and state that the agreement is in force. So you put your head down and try to dig the ditch with the broken shovel. You do so until your hands are bloody and your back is broken at which point your family is starving and you realize there is no frickin way you will ever, EVER finish.
 
So you leave... pissed off that you were duped.
 
Who breached the contract?
 
This type of business dealings have ruined a many a marriages and families and is not something that should be taken lightly. F*%k those guys... I hope they rot in hell.  

Sell High's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-29

Here's the story on that forgiven note - it's difficult if not impossible to get out of if you quit -- if you were fired it could be another story. 
Go on to the arbitration website - I lost the website but if you look hard enough you'll find it - it's like the arbitration database or something.  It's a site that list monthly settlements of arbitrations going back years - look up "promissory" or that and bank of america.  Read each and every arbitration and almost every one will say "Defendant shall pay plaintiff (the amount of the loan) and lawyers fees totaling (up to and over $40,000).  Defendant will pay the panel ($5000 or so) in filing and hearing fees. 
 
So years ago I found one of the only lawyers to beat the firm I was with and tried to hire him... As soon as he beat this firm, they retained him so - basically they bought him so no one else could ever use him. 
 
So if you arbitrate you'll be out the money - lawyers fees - and filing fees.  Unless you have some exceptionally good verifiable information about significant wrongdoing in the office that you can bring to the table.  The equation there would be would the public airing and discovery of this wrongdoing trump the satisfcation of a victory against you in the firms mind.
 
Another approach for you may be to declare bankrutpcy - which you'll have to disclose on your u4 forever.  But put a note on the U4 saying something to the effect of:
 
"As a result (an unpredicted event like a wife or childs sickness that would make anyone sympathize with you) I had to take a number of weeks of and as a result (brokerage firm you worked for) (fired me or forced me to quit) and demanded (amount of money demanded) as a result of a training agreement I regreatably signed before showing it to my attorney.  They came after me for tens of hundreds of thousands that, after the family tragedy, my family and I had no way to pay.  As a result I went to a more independent platform so I'd never have to deal with big firms again.   
 
So, anyone thinking of quitting or taking a deal and getting off the hook - check every promissory note arbitration before thinking even one more thought in that direction.  I've seen the bankruptcy approach as effective - not from myself as I've fortunately not had to deal with this - but from people I knew of that used it.
Good luck.

unsure's picture
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Joined: 2009-04-09

Interesting comments regarding " can't pay back"  Any thoughts on the upfront checks and what will happen when UBS starts the layoff process?  How will the FA's that were recruited and paid upfront be treated with regard to the upfront cash that was rec'd if they are caught in layoff?

benfranklin's picture
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Joined: 2009-04-13

rrbdlawyer,
 
I think setting up a union for reg reps is a good idea. You're right. We've allowed our respective employers to exercise too much unfair, and at times illegal, power over us. Given the way the industry has operated over the years, management at bd's have been able to do just about anything they want....until another scandel erupts, but then it's too late.
 
How do we go about establishing an industry trade group or union?

MrKargon's picture
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Joined: 2010-04-12

Mucho de Tejas wrote:rrbdlawyer wrote: _popupControl(); Mucho de Tejas:  From a lawyer's perspective, one of the blessings of the American legal systems is that is you have the bucks (and a good faith claim), you can file almost any case.  Could there be a Class Action for deceptive hiring practices? Sure.  On the other hand, how sympathetic do you think a jury will be towards those poor, underpaid brokers on Wall Street?  These are tough times.  Similarly, this is a perfect example as to why RRs needed and need a trade group or even some unionization (I'm not a fan of the latter idea).  There are several hundred thousand RRs and yet you folks continue to let yourself be picked off and diluted when it comes to negotiating your employment relationships.  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/reneged v. re·neged, re·neg·ing, re·neges 1. To fail to carry out a promise or commitment: reneged on the contract at the last minute. I'll admit it, I had no way of holding them accountable for what they promised other than good faith. And when they reneged (see above) on their promises, I was left holding the bag. Whatever happened to a man's word is good as gold? It went to hell with BAC stock price.  Part of their recruiting ploy was to recruit newer LOS ML reps who had never gone through a transfer of b/ds, much less the negotiations. And that has been documented. Criminal, I tell you.  I learned from it. That was me.  I was recruited from AG Edwards after the buyout from Wachovia, having been in business 2 years, and then ML imploded, and I was not able to get all my clients or my large client over.  Now I am being taken to arbitration.

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