THANK YOU BARACK OBAMA !!!!!!!!!!! A GREAT PRESIDENT.

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iliketennis's picture
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The first step for either party is to acknowledge that there are useful elements on both platforms and that it really shouldn't always be either/or situations. 

tenthtee's picture
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" devoid of any signs of intelligence.  Well said?!?!  Even though I expected to disagree with your position on this, I expected a little more objectivity" " It's okay to like wine but hate Boones Farm.  I guess it's a sign that at the conservative table, that's the only crap that's being served these days."There is no point in talking with you. You don't care about what you are doing here.  Just wasting time. "Off".  

loneMADman's picture
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Sniff.  I'm hurt.Your comment is a bit of a non-sequitor, in my opinion, or perhaps just plain weird.  So long.

BondGuy's picture
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Jen, I really have to thank you for giving me a greater understanding of one aspect of our political landscape. I now understand why so many Tea Party protest signs contain misspellings. Jen, prove to me that you aren't a moron: Tell me, in complete sentences, exactly what happened in August, September, and October of 2008. What, exactly, the meltdown was, and what, exactly, caused it. Why the govt let ML BAC DB and others skate and went hammer down on Lehman. Leave out the political diatribe and finger pointing. Just in chronological order what happened. If you don't respond it's a fail, it shows you don't know the answer. Politics aside if you don't know the answer you have no business being in this business. Feel free to cheat off the crib sheet i've given you in this thread.

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Jennifer Nettles wrote:bond, you have some incredible insights in this business and the fixed income markets but you have a naive 11th grade English major view of the rest of the world.    you sound like my kids and their stupid friends.    liek I tell them, finish your trig homework.   get a real job.   spend 5 years in the real world,Exactly... This is the real world. There are winners and there are losers. Just the way it is. Some people were born to dig ditches. It's ok. We need ditches dug. Someone will be born that will cure cancer. It's ok as well. We need that too.Bond guy, who are you, or anyone else for that matter, to decide who deserves what and who will provide that. I am for helping people out BUT it should be done voluntarily through the private sector NOT involuntarily through government policies. Small government. People helping people not people helping the government help people...

BondGuy's picture
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N.D. wrote:Jennifer Nettles wrote:bond, you have some incredible insights in this business and the fixed income markets but you have a naive 11th grade English major view of the rest of the world.    you sound like my kids and their stupid friends.    liek I tell them, finish your trig homework.   get a real job.   spend 5 years in the real world,Exactly... This is the real world. There are winners and there are losers. Just the way it is. Some people were born to dig ditches. It's ok. We need ditches dug. Someone will be born that will cure cancer. It's ok as well. We need that too.Bond guy, who are you, or anyone else for that matter, to decide who deserves what and who will provide that. I am for helping people out BUT it should be done voluntarily through the private sector NOT involuntarily through government policies. Small government. People helping people not people helping the government help people...Exactly what government policies or programs are you referring to?I'm still waiting for jen's version of the meltdown.

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BondGuy wrote:N.D. wrote:Jennifer Nettles wrote:bond, you have some incredible insights in this business and the fixed income markets but you have a naive 11th grade English major view of the rest of the world.    you sound like my kids and their stupid friends.    liek I tell them, finish your trig homework.   get a real job.   spend 5 years in the real world,Exactly... This is the real world. There are winners and there are losers. Just the way it is. Some people were born to dig ditches. It's ok. We need ditches dug. Someone will be born that will cure cancer. It's ok as well. We need that too.Bond guy, who are you, or anyone else for that matter, to decide who deserves what and who will provide that. I am for helping people out BUT it should be done voluntarily through the private sector NOT involuntarily through government policies. Small government. People helping people not people helping the government help people...Exactly what government policies or programs are you referring to?I'm still waiting for jen's version of the meltdown.any policy not listed in my previous post which I quoted below and highlighted for you...N.D. wrote:Honestly, no. There is no way the amount of diversity in this country can be equally represented by two ideologies. Thats why the feds should step down and give the states back the responsibility and authority they so desperately need.Feds = military policy, monetary policy, foreign policy, interstate/foreign commerce and nothing more...

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tenthtee wrote:Well said, like poetry, Nettles. "No mortgages will be allowed  to be sold from the original issuer" Tenth, that is well said right? You agree with this?That being the case i have to assume that you, like JN, have little understanding of not only what happened and why it happened, but also of what has driven our economy from the the mid 1970s going forward. If you chose to reply you should note that mortgage origination sales have been in place for over 30 years. Why didn't they collapse the economy in 1977? Tell us, what would happen if the govt shuts down all mortgage sales?If you understood what happened and why you'd know the answer. And, knowing that answer you'd also know how preposterous JN's reference to mortgage orgination sales is, and you would not have given her a two thumbs up "Well said!" JN said "wow brilliant."  Actually, just the opposite. Incredibly ignorant. The problem is you folks get to vote.

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BondGuy wrote:tenthtee wrote:Well said, like poetry, Nettles. "No mortgages will be allowed  to be sold from the original issuer"Tenth, that is well said right? You agree with this?...Actually that is not a bad idea and one a "BondGuy" should consider. The mortgage originators should be allowed to use these loans as colateral to borrow against or sell debt intruments against to raise new capital for future loans. This keeps the loans either bundled or not on their books as an asset. This keeps them from defering all liability...

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BondGuy wrote:Yes, seriously!Y'all are jumin' on the anti Obama bandwagon. A bandwagon that is Madison Avenue slick. None of us can understand how blind or naive or uniformed or misunformed the Bogleheads are, but then y'all fall this load of bullshit? Seriously?    My beef with Obama was that he spoke about being the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.  Now he is just as partisan as the rest of the hacks in D.C. We had a balanced budget and limited government spending under Clinton. We also had a budget surplus. Any Clinton supporters in the group?  I LOVED Clinton!  There was limited government spending under Clinton, but that wasn't because of Clinton.  We had an energy policy under Carter that reduced our dependance on foreign oil by 50%. Reagan undid it as fast as he could. If we'd kept those policies in place there would have been no Gulf War and no Iraq War. We would be masters of our own economy. How many Carter fans we got here?   Carter was an idiot.  Predicting that we woudn't have a war is a pretty big stretch.  Undo health care? Exactly how would that affect you? Is there anyone in this country who doesn't deserve health care?  Last question you asked - Everyone deserves health care, but it shouldn't be free.  And it still isn't.  It's just free for people who can't afford it.  My premiums were already affected.  I specifcially got a letter form my insurance company telling me the reason that my insurance premiums were going up was because of "future projected costs due to new legislation".  Of course that could mean ANYTHING.By a show of hands, how many of you really beleive the bailouts were unnecessary and we shouldn't have done them?  I don't think they were unnecessary.  Although, I have said from the beginning that the government is likely to make money from the whole thing and it should have been sold as an investment, which would have done a few things:  1)  Given the public confidence that capital markets correct and 2)  Not associated "bailouts" with financial institutions and 3)  Made people realize that personal bailouts are different.  Although that might be asking a lot.  Once again though, Bush and Paulson were the father's of that, so Obama doesn't get to take credit for it.  Neither do the Democrats or Republicans in Congress who RAILED against it.  Also, if you campaigned on platform of "Bailouts are bad, and no more bailouts", you don't get to take credit for a "Bailout".  By a show of hands how many of you have been tangibly adversely affected by the current administration?  Like I said, already have on health care.  I will further be adversely affected as the small business provisions go into affect, and the auditing requirements of RIAs.  I estimate my additional costs next year to be around $7k just for business related expenses, simply do to this administrations policies.  I normally don't care about politics, EXCEPT when it affects me adversely.By a show of hands, how many of you really beleive there has been enough time since the 08 meltdown for recovery to take place?   Me.  Pick me!  You bet.  There's been enough time.  But it doesn't help when you continue to spend.  Now, I get that government spending has a multiplicative affect on economic growth - I really do.  But, spending with no goal and no plan doesn't help anybody out.  Not to mention that the government is the worst entity to efficiently allocate resources.Yeah, tenth, seriously!  Simply put, Congress has had four years to fix things.  President Obama has had two.  People give credit to Clinton for the recovery in '92 (which is interesting, since he wasn't even in office.  Also interesting is that technically, the recession ended in '91).  So if it only took him one month to fix things, then why does it take this administration 24 times as long to fix things?  Which is it?  Did Bush senior fix things, or did Clinton?  That answer will determine whether or not you think Obama has had enough time.  It is entirely possible that the recovery was started because of *gasp* President Bush Jr's policies.  What is interesting is that both sides of this argument are claiming NOT to be idealogues, but in fact are.  BG - Think you are great.  I also think your posts are well thought out.  They just aren't balanced.  Where is your equal criticism for President Obama and the Democrats.  The disegenuity of the left hand side.  It is easy to hate the right, because they champion the cause of upper-middle to upper America.  But I ask you, who would champion their cause, if not the Republicans?  Do they not deserve equal protection under the laws of this land?

tenthtee's picture
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"No mortgages will be allowed  to be sold from the original issuer"Tenth, that is well said right? You agree with this?... Of course not. Unless ... this policy is used as an alternative to more layers of complicated nanny-state regulations.  I believe in allowing freedom in the capital markets. Freedom to securitize, leverage, gamble. No different than you deciding to ride a motorcycle, who am I to call you  fool for putting your body out there?Bailouts or interventions are necessary during a liquidity crisis, nobody is doubting that fact. We can defend the status quo or argue about the events or causes that lead up to them, or we can take a step back. I see the meltdown as the beginning of post industrial America. We found our limits in the world economy. A lot of folks can take credit for making it happen, and absorbing the stress to bail us out. Some folks got rich, some went broke. Everyone is soiled by the crisis. America has a few great strengths that need to be leverage. No question, one of them is the freedom for the individual or even the markets to fail.If you think the mortgage meltdown was big, (heaven forbid), wait until the next big geopolitical crisis. The tests get harder and harder, and we have to play to our basic strengths. Almost everyone is missing identifying the next big wave, which will be the convergence of progressive and conservative economic thought. It will happen out of necessity. Its champion will be small business. In this sense, big government and big business will become more accountable. That is the strength of the "Tea Party", and just saying "no" - it promotes the economic interests of the individual.At a very basic level, most people are happiest and feel most satisfied when they are making an effort and succeeding in meeting their own basic needs. That is the future vision for this economic convergence.In that sense ( in the sense of relating to all of this as a financial advisor), you are wasting your time with deconstuctionist analysis of what went wrong, and in the case of you negative progressives, name calling and defending the status quo. You are betting off putting your energy into understanding the "next wave", and how to align your own interests with the interest of your "clients". ( Your charitable contribution to the profession or society if you have already met your basic needs.) I think we all want to grow and find ourselves in a special place and time, blessed, I'm sure, to even have the time and energy to reflect here, and if we abuse that blessing we are accountable. You need a basic level of respect for the opinions and experience and discoveries of others, but if you don't uncover and share some core beliefs, you are  better off investing your energy in things you can influence or even control.  

Jennifer Nettles's picture
Joined: 2010-03-01

BondGuy wrote:Jen, I really have to thank you for giving me a greater understanding of one aspect of our political landscape. I now understand why so many Tea Party protest signs contain misspellings. Jen, prove to me that you aren't a moron: Tell me, in complete sentences, exactly what happened in August, September, and October of 2008. What, exactly, the meltdown was, and what, exactly, caused it. Why the govt let ML BAC DB and others skate and went hammer down on Lehman. Leave out the political diatribe and finger pointing. Just in chronological order what happened. If you don't respond it's a fail, it shows you don't know the answer. Politics aside if you don't know the answer you have no business being in this business. Feel free to cheat off the crib sheet i've given you in this thread.I cant spell.   Im ADD as a MF and cant stand checking crap on a stupid waste of time message board.sorryplenty of blame to go around in subprime meltdown.   After Enron/tech blow up and then this i have come to one  conclusion.....we humans aint as smart as we think we are.     No one really connected the dots on what was happening   (ok  afreak show like kyle bass got lucky).  we aint that smart.   very successful people are also very lucky.anyway.  plenty of blame.   the core of it was based in liberal ideals going back to fannie (roosevelt?)crajimmys enterprise zonesbubbas withc docotr loansetcLike always, the intent was GREAT.   homes are better then no homes.  lets help as many people as possible get a home.     duh.    who would not agree with this?but alas   there are ALWAYS bad unintended consequences when you fukc with free markets.  same thing here.    some of it took many many years.  some quicker.the accounting probems that fannie and freddie had in the late 90's (i think) lead to the quick loan/countrywides to fill in the void.  no skin in game.  Angelo didnt give  acrap if u were qualified because they sold the papergreed on wall street in the development of CDO's CMO's  original idea was solid.  spread riskthe complexitythe greedthe crap rugulationperfect stormI guess Al keeping rates too low after 911 contribuated also.are these all bad, evil people. nope.    remeber we are ALL GREEDYall of us  the huamn condition.  original sinall the people in this puzzle were just being flawed humansthe greedy fukc getting teh no-doc loan to use his house as a ATMjimmy carter isnt a bad person.  enterprise zones seem good.chris cox isnt a bad person.   he belives free markets hold the key for prosperity.the closet thing to "bad" (prolly sick)  were madolfm standford and jeff skillingnon violent sciopathscanada has no fannie or freddie and great home ownership and no subprime.so are liberal ideals to blame?    no one is to blamehumans are flaweddid phil ghramm and chris cox and W and the other free market supply siders cause it?nopeperfect storm capitilism seems to blwo up about every 80 years or so.on sept 19, 2008 the entire system did come very close to melting down.a dollar is a dollar cause we both trust that is is.  if that trust is gone.  its paperwhen the Reserve fund went under a buck and libor and the ted  spread went nuts...the system was ready to melt.    trust was gone.i think hank and ben saved the free world.     The perfect guy was in that job.  a darthmoth lineacker that woked at Goldie and had balls of steel to undertsand that a indication that the USA master card would cover things ASAP.yes.  TARP was nesssary and saved the system.i think they needed to act the NEXT day.   how much left money market that night?  a tril?again  we are animals  humans.  we revert to self preservation.plenty of blame what i do strongly KNOW is that mettling is free markets ALWAYS ends badlythe solutions always can be found with not FIGHTING human nature (greed) and pretendng that it does not exist.....but it understanding human nature and adapting a systme that works for the better good.this elizabeth warrem dodd-frank 3000 page clusterfukc WILL end badlylike all govt bs mettling.Am i less compassionate then you?i bet not.I just know that the answer is a MAN WITH A JOB.that wealth is created through free markets-periodpeople exceling to better themselves through hard work and brainsand if you make this sytem as clean as you can (Hong ong) EVERYONE is better offas the great ronnie reagan said:"help the factory owner  you help the factory worker"    cut taxescut regulationcut all govt except the minimumperiod.health care?   again  look at lasiksname one MF govt peice of carp program that ENDED?just oneOK  we did it!!!   we met out goalsuccess.  we are donedo we need rules?  of course.history says that simple hard and fast rules keeps human between the ditchesagain  reg q for margin etcbondtrurth n lending was suppose to protect peopleyou ever read teh bs they give u at clsoing?does anyone read it?how that work?how that 4th generation on welfare doing?a man with a jobget govt out of the wayand BTW   i was proud when owebama was electedgod bless americawe elected a black manhow cooli was hopeful.   i rooted for the guy to suceedi took my medicine that we lostthat iraq was a huge mistakei even bought off on some of owebama bs at the beginningwow.  maybe this guy can pull this off.what a let downthis guy is so shallowbashing groupsfat cat bankersoil companies"kicking people asses"cheating on helathcaresaying so much crap that is just total BSshallow and tunnel vision is the 2 best words i can think ofconfrotational and small mindedreally very disappointingi had vision of less racism.   a more together countrythis guy has been the great divideri am actually pretty liberal on social stuff.i was hopeful.  id certianly pay more in txes if t is truly for teh better gooda more fair country?    how coolthis guy is all about redistributuoning the wealth without reguard for fairness or what is correcthe treats everything in us vs them simplicity.true courage and growth lies in understanding someones positions and having emphathy for its origincompassionhumbleness is enderingthis guy thinks like everything is a Fantasy football gamei will always respect him and his wife for their great personal success.hard work.  beat the system.  aweome.i dont really espect him much anymore in terms of his presidencyarrogance and pettieness shallowdisappointing.     he had a chance to really change the world  

loneMADman's picture
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To those saying BondGuy is wrong to deconstruct the past crisis, are you kidding?  Never heard the maxim that those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it?  That's the whole problem with conservatives' current policy.  You haven't learned a damn thing from the past crisis.  So why the hell should we think you would know a damn thing about preventing the next!?!?!?!  Good grief.  Prove you can learn something, then tell us your opinion.The greatest danger in life is to fervently believe that which isn't true.  That's what makes conservatives more dangerous than liberals.  Liberals don't really fervently believe much, which is sad, but most of what conservatives fervently believe is rubbish, which is dangerous.Lastly, Nettlesome, it is the height of arrogance to present your "thoughts" in a manner that puts all the onus in making them coherent on the reader.  Sorry.  Can't read it; won't read it.  ADD really?!?!  Sounds like a liberal excuse to me.  Man up for god's sake and work to overcome your shortcomings.  That's what you seem to expect of everyone ELSE. 

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I know I am new here but please let me add my two cents here.
If you have ever read the bible esp. Proverbs you would know that "THE BORROWER IS SLAVE TO THE LENDER" and thAt you should work your tail off till u r debt free.

I got in the financial biz a year ago to change the world. As of today I have refied several mortgages, done personal loans, and taught debt snowballing to countless people. Why?? Cause I do care. That said I will not stand by and let the government take half of my money when I start making it big and give it back to the very people I pulled myself and my family out of. God gave me two hands, two legs, and a brain I think I can take care of myself without the govt. Heck I wish they would just get out of the way. So there that is my two cense I hope it was worth your time.

Btw I really have enjoyed your non political posts over the last few weeks bondguy. I hope that all of us can still be professional and curteous even if we disagree.

Mateo

Jennifer Nettles's picture
Joined: 2010-03-01

loneMADman wrote:To those saying BondGuy is wrong to deconstruct the past crisis, are you kidding?  Never heard the maxim that those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it?  That's the whole problem with conservatives' current policy.  You haven't learned a damn thing from the past crisis.  So why the hell should we think you would know a damn thing about preventing the next!?!?!?!  Good grief.  Prove you can learn something, then tell us your opinion.The greatest danger in life is to fervently believe that which isn't true.  That's what makes conservatives more dangerous than liberals.  Liberals don't really fervently believe much, which is sad, but most of what conservatives fervently believe is rubbish, which is dangerous.Lastly, Nettlesome, it is the height of arrogance to present your "thoughts" in a manner that puts all the onus in making them coherent on the reader.  Sorry.  Can't read it; won't read it.  ADD really?!?!  Sounds like a liberal excuse to me.  Man up for god's sake and work to overcome your shortcomings.  That's what you seem to expect of everyone ELSE. dudeWould you please stop your GD whining.    man  you sound like such a freakin pu#$y."it is the height of arrogance to present your "thoughts" in a manner that puts all the onus in making them coherent on the reader."that might be the stupidest comment in the history of earth"cant read....wont read"you did'nt cry   did you?You cant be an FA   are you in compliance?   HR?   green peace?  save the MF whales? 

loneMADman's picture
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I own my own RIA.  And once again, I take your "stupidest" comment as the highest form of flattery.And I wasn't complaining about your incomprehensible rantings.  I was just offering constructive feedback.  It's not surprising at all that you misinterpreted it.

Jennifer Nettles's picture
Joined: 2010-03-01

   I'm still waiting for jen's version of the meltdown.i gave it  scroll back.it was brilliant  lone mad man,  peace.   sorry for being such a dick.   here   check this acid falsh back outit will make you laugh   unless u too youngi love utubehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg-ivWxy5KE

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Nettles u be one bad mother. Wah, wah wah wah ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAh_4s_-tas&feature=related

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Lovin - Unbalanced? Me? Here?  LOL, yeah, just a little bit eh? I'm not a great lover of the left. As I've said many times the majority of this board is so far right that coming, more or less, from the center I appear far left to most here. I agree with Dman that the far right is dangerous. For example, many on the far right believe that The Flintstones is an accurate portrayal of the chronological history of the world.  How else to compress the planet's time line to fit with their beliefs? While they are free to believe as they chose, these people would not make good leaders. The fact that this board is so far right leaning even when i express ideas eminating from the center i'm labeled as extreme left. I voted for repub governor and congressman last time around. And while i never voted for anyone named Bush, i didn't vote for Clinton the first time around either. I did vote for Carter, twice. The first time because the choice was Ford and the second because while he is defined by the Iran hostage affair as weak, history shows he was an effective president. he got more of his legislation passed than any other president in modern history. His reduction on foreign oil was but one example of the direction he was leading us in. I voted Reagan for his second term. So, like i said, i'm not married to one ideology or party. On this thread i came out strongly because the TP movement is, IMO, so wrongheaded. It's anger is what's wrong with this country today. I must get a dozen teap arty supporrer emails a day. All balasting obama or the dems. And every single one of them factually incorrect. Everyone of them!!!!! Yet, the senders of the emails take them as fact. Not to mention highly racist. Which of course, is the under story here. Many are pissed off that a black man is in the oval office. Say what you will about TP candidate Carl Paladino, at least he's up front about it.I believe that Obama's admin has effed up. But i also believe that; One, he hasn't had enough time and two, the repubs have created a new level of politics called 'Extreme Roadblock" which the prez has to deal with. I also observe that we are living through an extremely polarizing time and the prez has to deal with that as well. I juxopose the dissatisfaction level of many in the middle class with their lives which  are pretty good. Yet they bitch and whine and call the prez out? They scream no more bailouts but were Ok with the 3 trillion we spent on a failed war in Iraq. Sheep they are one and all!Dman , i agree that the right doesn't have the answers, only the raised fist in the air! Iraq is proof enough that they don't get "When you find yourself in a hole, first thing, stop digging!Jen, Ok , as the world's worst speller I have no business picking on your bad spelling. But, the bad spelling and grammer is so "Tea Party!" That said, if i'm reading you right you seem to understand that we were days away from total collapse, and that the bailiouts were needed? That being the case, and with the Tea Party's  central bitch with the government being the bailouts, where does it square that you are a Tea Partier? I could see it if the bailouts were one small part of the TP movement but they're not. The bailouts are the engine that drives the movement, the central plank. So, what's up with that?Tenth, you confuse me. You gave a "well said" endorsement to Jen's no more mortgage sales statement and then you say you don't agree. So, which is it? And, if you don't agree, why the blanket endorsement?And, for anyone who isn't understanding the mortgage sales issue, look back at the economy through most of your lifetime or adult lifetime. All those prosperous years - directly tied to mortgage sales. As goes housing, so goes the economy. Stop mortgage sales and the economy will never recover or recover to the degree of prosperity we once enjoyed.Mateo - Professional and courteous even if we disagree? Not a chance on a political thread like this one. But hard feelings over it? On my part, no way! I've had people rip me a new one on here only to PM me asking for help with biz. Which i gladly give. Funny thing is, even in the PMs they throw me under the bus! So what? Politics and religion gets the blood boiling. None of it makes those of who disagree bad people. I agree, i too wish, in many cases the government would just get out the way. However, i take issue with "The borrower is slave to the lender" quote from the bible. I totally agree with that proverb. However, the right, which are the bible thumping Christians  are also the ones who supported the repubs push to enact the ridiculous lending laws and regulation that enslave the poor to the rich. They are the ones who supported a change in our bankruptcy laws when people, under the weigh of 20 and 30% interest rates turned to the government for relief. The Repubs used examples of borrower fraud to change the law, even though the stats showed that fraud among borrowers was not an issue. The repubs didn't let that fact get in the way of chaining these people to the floor to keep them enslaved to the rich, the republican benefactors of the new law. So, where i take issue with the right wing is on Sunday they thump their bibles and say debt is sinful, and then on Monday issue loans to poor people at loan shark interest rates or support the people who do. 

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BondGuy wrote: ...On this thread i came out strongly because the TP movement is, IMO, so wrongheaded. It's anger is what's wrong with this country today. I must get a dozen teap arty supporrer emails a day. All balasting obama or the dems. And every single one of them factually incorrect. Everyone of them!!!!! Yet, the senders of the emails take them as fact. Not to mention highly racist. Which of course, is the under story here. Many are pissed off that a black man is in the oval office. Say what you will about TP candidate Carl Paladino, at least he's up front about it... ...I agree, i too wish, in many cases the government would just get out the way. However, i take issue with "The borrower is slave to the lender" quote from the bible. I totally agree with that proverb. However, the right, which are the bible thumping Christians  are also the ones who supported the repubs push to enact the ridiculous lending laws and regulation that enslave the poor to the rich. They are the ones who supported a change in our bankruptcy laws when people, under the weigh of 20 and 30% interest rates turned to the government for relief. The Repubs used examples of borrower fraud to change the law, even though the stats showed that fraud among borrowers was not an issue. The repubs didn't let that fact get in the way of chaining these people to the floor to keep them enslaved to the rich, the republican benefactors of the new law. So, where i take issue with the right wing is on Sunday they thump their bibles and say debt is sinful, and then on Monday issue loans to poor people at loan shark interest rates or support the people who do.How can you make the "racism" claims in the first paragraph then spew the accusations and generalizations of another demographic in the next one? Discrimination comes in many forms all be it "racism" is the most obvious. I can see your point that some are upset that the prez is black. But that is something they can get over. He is our prez and I am proud we finally have overcome that hurdle. I don't have issues with him as a person, my disagreements mainly stem from the effects of the governments actions toward my personal liberties. It just seems to me that the left effects these liberties more than the right. So unfortunately, I usually vote against a candidate not for a candidate.As for your last paragraph, I feel it is completely unacceptable and I hope you honestly do not feel that way. If this is a true reflection of your emotions/ideology then I highly recommend you look in the mirror to get a better description of bigotry...  pot meet kettle...

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BG, it seems like you are looking more at the problems than solutions. At some point you have to move on.I don't have a clear idea of what you believe about economics or even politics as your "core" principles. It's not clear what you bring to the table as a political economist/financial advisor. N.D., I totally appreciate your comments about racism. Before the election, I had correctly figured Obama as a BSer. ( His apparent core beliefs/behaviors scare me ). Yet I celebrated his victory as a triumph for social equality in America.I say "correct", because even the far left is calling him out on his BS now, and rightfully so. The far left does not like him, neither the center, nor the right. Who does he represent?The only time I even remember Obama is "black" ( why does black win out over white in mixed genetics?) is when he reminds us. It really bugs me when he says it takes time for an ecnomic recovery, just like it took time to liberate the slaves. This type of comment is a watershed remark: you either decide to be PC and walk together with your PC comrade a little farther down the revisionist path in a brave new world, or you stand by your beliefs and just see it as patronizing and self-serving. Same with your comments above. These behaviors are the worst type of anti-intellectualism. You say Tea partiers are ignorant, yet you seem to have no problem insulting the values, objectivity, religiosity, and intelligence of folks who don't agree with your POV - consistently - in your posts. I don't think of you as being and original thinker at all, if you're "moderate", you can keep your middle of the road to yourself. It seems like you're just pushed around by the winds of popular liberal thought like a cork on the water. You seem like a smart guy, and it feels like you are just f****** with us. Just like the Dems have been doing with the whole country. In fairness, the only reason to fight back is for mild entertainment and to practice writing and spelling. For this, I'm grateful. I'd have to give Nettles the highest marks for creativity in the writing department..

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If you think the problems of this country has to do with Republicans or Democrats, spend some time listening to the senatorial debates on CSPAN.It is nothing but mudslinging. If you want to look at solutions rather than problems, start getting some new blood in politics. Even when candidates are asked directly about their ideas for solving a specific problem, be it immigration, economic woes or health care, they will start weaving and then talk about how bad the opposition is and this in very generic terms. It's really nothing more than a "he said, she said" game at this stage.It bothers me that this sort of political message is apparently the most effective one available. Whether you're a leftie or a rightie, at least have the proverbial balls to present your own thoughts - I would appreciate it. Hopefully I am not the only one. The only good thing that can come from this is an infusion of votes to more independent platforms that aren't afraid to present thoughts and solutions.

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Exactly. Look over here while that little man behind the curtain takes your money. That is why we need to reinvent ourselves. Once you stop defending the status quo, a lot of possibilites arise. The markets are like scouring winds that expose bedrock. The borrowed money is spent, let  reality and reason prevail. Optimism waxing. The strength of Americans is majority intolerance for BS. You can still pack up your s*** and move west.

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N.D. wrote:BondGuy wrote: ...On this thread i came out strongly because the TP movement is, IMO, so wrongheaded. It's anger is what's wrong with this country today. I must get a dozen teap arty supporrer emails a day. All balasting obama or the dems. And every single one of them factually incorrect. Everyone of them!!!!! Yet, the senders of the emails take them as fact. Not to mention highly racist. Which of course, is the under story here. Many are pissed off that a black man is in the oval office. Say what you will about TP candidate Carl Paladino, at least he's up front about it... ...I agree, i too wish, in many cases the government would just get out the way. However, i take issue with "The borrower is slave to the lender" quote from the bible. I totally agree with that proverb. However, the right, which are the bible thumping Christians  are also the ones who supported the repubs push to enact the ridiculous lending laws and regulation that enslave the poor to the rich. They are the ones who supported a change in our bankruptcy laws when people, under the weigh of 20 and 30% interest rates turned to the government for relief. The Repubs used examples of borrower fraud to change the law, even though the stats showed that fraud among borrowers was not an issue. The repubs didn't let that fact get in the way of chaining these people to the floor to keep them enslaved to the rich, the republican benefactors of the new law. So, where i take issue with the right wing is on Sunday they thump their bibles and say debt is sinful, and then on Monday issue loans to poor people at loan shark interest rates or support the people who do.How can you make the "racism" claims in the first paragraph then spew the accusations and generalizations of another demographic in the next one? Discrimination comes in many forms all be it "racism" is the most obvious. I can see your point that some are upset that the prez is black. But that is something they can get over. He is our prez and I am proud we finally have overcome that hurdle. I don't have issues with him as a person, my disagreements mainly stem from the effects of the governments actions toward my personal liberties. It just seems to me that the left effects these liberties more than the right. So unfortunately, I usually vote against a candidate not for a candidate.As for your last paragraph, I feel it is completely unacceptable and I hope you honestly do not feel that way. If this is a true reflection of your emotions/ideology then I highly recommend you look in the mirror to get a better description of bigotry...  pot meet kettle...They are the same demographic. Rich white folks. Define rich as- not poor. We are far from overcoming that hurdle. Are the repubs not the party of the wealthy? Do they not speak for the wealthy in this country? Are they not  anti-tax, anti social programs? Are they not anti health care and mental health care? Did they not boot the mentally ill out of hospitals, group homes, and treatment programs and put them on the streets? Did a republican controlled congress and senate not legalize 30% plus interest rates for their banker friends? Did a republican controlled congress and senate not change the bankruptcy code at the behest of their rich banker friends? Who, exactly would be negatively affected by those decisions? The rich? Are republicans not defined as right wing? Is the Christian right not part of the repubican party?ND, the problem with the repubs is they can't face their own callousness. Everything is spin.  The repubs have systematically stolen from the poor and given to the rich. And if you don't see that you need to wake  up about what's going on in this country. Charging those who can least afford it 30% interest, denying poor woman access to breat cancer treatment, mentally ill freezing to death on the streets. All OK with the republicans. Republicans who go to church on Sunday and will tell anyone who will listen what good people they are. Does this define everyone who is a republican? Of course not! But it defines the party. Heartless! 

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BondGuy, your generalization is nauseating and I am appalled that you are part of the this industry. I surely hope you do not tell your clients the way you feel about them, of course assuming your clients are wealthy.The best advice I can give you is to quit pointing your finger at every one else and take responsibility for yourself and whatever ideology you represent. We all are the problem and we all are the solution but we must take individual accountability for each decision we make and that is the core difference between the right and the left. You wake up each morning and decide to go to work others do not. "Bankers" wake up each morning and decide to make their company as profitable as they can others decide to operate non-profits. No one is forced to work so there is not a problem if someone decides not to. No one is forced to buy products from bankers so there is not a problem if someone decides not to.Everyone needs to take accountability for their own actions and quit blaming others. This is life and there are winners and losers, good people and bad, educated and uneducated. Just the way it is. I find your attack on the right as offensive as the right's attack on the left.

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N.D., totally share your feelings. I would only add, speaking of feelings: a loved one had a dream about a personal visit with Barrack Obama. Obama was innocently describing his idealism and passions, using food coloring, flowers and water. Barrack Obama was abandoned by his father and his emotional development was arrested. He grew up outside the U. S. (including Hawaii) and came here filled with passion and his own vision. When he became President, his idealism was not tempered with pragmatism or maturity. The part that perhaps Fox and some others got wrong was mischaracterizing his agenda as being more diabolical than naiive. I appreciate BG's view, and his statement, in my estimation, brings to conclusion my questions about how a guy can work in the industry and exclude other's viewpoints on the basis of emotional idealism. With all respect, American knows it's time for the adults to take charge again. ( They can gather from all "parties".) Even the media lost "its" senses. This will be known as a time when America stumbled in emotional intelligence, but recovered to be more pragmatic and hard-nosed about her place in the world.

tenthtee's picture
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Also: this industry is a place where progressives and conservatives, idealists and the self interested work - side by side. Many years ago, my trainers taught WDYWFY? What do you want for yourself?Many of us came from social work and teaching backgrounds. In my case, I burned out on social work and teaching. What we found is, you have to know what you want for yourself before you can help others. This is an industry where you can do immense good for others. There is almost unlimited poverty in the world, but poverty can also be a state of mind. The opportunity afforded to Americans and professionals in our industry is almost unlimited, and with opportunity comes responsibility, including the responsibility to grow emotionally in our understanding of the meaning of wealth creation, money, the markets and even wealth destruction. I believe Obama represents the ascendence of the idealistic notions of a very priveledged and selfish generation of baby boomers. Not that they didn't work hard and suffer, but unlike the generation before them, their economic notions were formed in the shade of a very prosperous post WWII economy which America projected, took, created, her place on the world stage. Now all of this is changing so fast - it's scary, in fact, even the tradition notions of leadership and personal coaching can't keep up with demand. That represents a lot of opportunity for advisors in the industry, and one of the keys to be a leader, in addition to education, experience, and perspective, is emotional intelligence.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligencehttp://www.amazon.com/Moral-Intelligence-Enhancing-Performance-Leadership/dp/0131490508Doug Lennick retired from IDS/American Express/Ameriprise

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As a slow growing economy, debt, globalization, outsourcing jobs, even poverty take their toll on the American economy, there will be a European "socialization" of the economy. But even the grab for power (wealth redistribution) - almost seems a little nostalgic, when you consider the  nature of the American economy. Our mutlinational corporations have the reach and power to function and be profitiable overseas - by setting up shop in individul countries and acting locally. Point is, these companies will act in their own interest, and even our ability to tax or control them is limited.Protectionism and tariffs will be increase, this is the one thing upon which libs and conservs agree. Not necessarily a bad thing in itself, although it will drive up the cost of goods and services and protect certain inefficiencies like unions and the subsidized production of automobiles. The point is, the money is spent, our debt is high, belief in the Tooth Fairy dissapates with childhood's end. We are witnessing the greatest seachange of our life, and it's okay to ask, WDYWFY? That question puts us into alignment with the rest of the world, and if we are a blessed with certain resources, abilities or insights, we need to share these in order to uplift ourself and those around us. This is the meaning of emotional intelligence or economic emotional maturity, and those boomers who get around feelings of jealousy, disappointment, depression, hatred, fear and so on will begin to see the light, even as the competition and poverty of the world closes in and is uplifted by human progress. The world still cries for  our American idealism, born in the wild open West,  even amidst, free farmland and bountiful soils and rainfall and droughts and floods and lawless gunfighters and the people's frontier justice. We cannot afford to cave in to nostalgic self-absorbtion or feeling sorry for ourselves, which is really what BG is doing here. A luxury some, but not most, can afford. We have to suck it up and move forward, and we all know how to do it and what to do next.

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N.D. wrote:BondGuy, your generalization is nauseating and I am appalled that you are part of the this industry. I surely hope you do not tell your clients the way you feel about them, of course assuming your clients are wealthy.The best advice I can give you is to quit pointing your finger at every one else and take responsibility for yourself and whatever ideology you represent. We all are the problem and we all are the solution but we must take individual accountability for each decision we make and that is the core difference between the right and the left. You wake up each morning and decide to go to work others do not. "Bankers" wake up each morning and decide to make their company as profitable as they can others decide to operate non-profits. No one is forced to work so there is not a problem if someone decides not to. No one is forced to buy products from bankers so there is not a problem if someone decides not to.Everyone needs to take accountability for their own actions and quit blaming others. This is life and there are winners and losers, good people and bad, educated and uneducated. Just the way it is. I find your attack on the right as offensive as the right's attack on the left.That you believe that poor people have choices shows either a quaint naivete or a very narrow band of knowledge. Either way, you are a clueless rich boy! You speak of individual accountablity when you have no idea what that means. You are so worried about one freeloader getting over on you that you deny help to 100 working poor who need a hand up. But, not to worry, your banker friends will be there to help. Of course you find my summation of the right offensive.  Tell me, of all the points I raised, are any untrue? I assure they are all true. You are disgusted by the truth of what the right has done. You chose to attack my comments and classify them as generalizations. You do so because, that puts it in a place you can live with.         

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Tenth, that you call my calling out the right for what it is "self absorbtion and feeling sorry for ourselves" shows just how you deal with the heartless policies of those you chose to support. Not to mention cold, I mean really cold! Yeah, tenth, let's not feel sorry for the poor person. That way we can turn our back and walk away. The good news is it doesn't cost a dime! Like i said, heartless! 

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"Bond Guy", I am sure everyone respects you as a person and no one here wants to change who you are. If you ever grow up emotionally and live in the big boy house, you will understand. I can't say what would cause that. In the mean time, my observation about you is that you come across as being passive aggressive in how you debate most issues. You cross a line that involves respect the dignity of others.  Where does that come from?  But I thank you for what I have learned here from you, it gives me new perspective on progressives.  

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BondGuy wrote:N.D. wrote:BondGuy, your generalization is nauseating and I am appalled that you are part of the this industry. I surely hope you do not tell your clients the way you feel about them, of course assuming your clients are wealthy.The best advice I can give you is to quit pointing your finger at every one else and take responsibility for yourself and whatever ideology you represent. We all are the problem and we all are the solution but we must take individual accountability for each decision we make and that is the core difference between the right and the left. You wake up each morning and decide to go to work others do not. "Bankers" wake up each morning and decide to make their company as profitable as they can others decide to operate non-profits. No one is forced to work so there is not a problem if someone decides not to. No one is forced to buy products from bankers so there is not a problem if someone decides not to.Everyone needs to take accountability for their own actions and quit blaming others. This is life and there are winners and losers, good people and bad, educated and uneducated. Just the way it is. I find your attack on the right as offensive as the right's attack on the left.That you believe that poor people have choices shows either a quaint naivete or a very narrow band of knowledge. Either way, you are a clueless rich boy! You speak of individual accountablity when you have no idea what that means. You are so worried about one freeloader getting over on you that you deny help to 100 working poor who need a hand up. But, not to worry, your banker friends will be there to help. Of course you find my summation of the right offensive.  Tell me, of all the points I raised, are any untrue? I assure they are all true. You are disgusted by the truth of what the right has done. You chose to attack my comments and classify them as generalizations. You do so because, that puts it in a place you can live with.But for whatever reason, I am going to try...With every post you produce a more clear picture of what truly causes the bottleneck of progress this country suffers from. If you could see me now, you would see a man holding his head down in shame because of the thought that I share the same responsibility to the people that put food on my table and clothes on my back as you do but apparently I thank them while you talk about them like a dog behind their back. I doubt it would be stretch for me to say that I come from one of the lowest of economic classes in this country. My parents lived pay check to pay check my entire life. However, I am fortunate to be in this country and that it provides me an avenue to better myself ,all though my family choose to not follow me and God knows I tried my best to help my brother. I am the first child in my family to attend college not to mention I graduated cum laude while working a full time job. I can remember writing papers until 3 a.m. with pictures of my childhood home above my desk (which the desk was a $20 purchase from Goodwill) for motivation. I have worked very hard to get to where I am today and it is NOWHERE near rich. Not even by Obama's definition of rich. But I DO have the option NOW thanks to all my hard work and doing without earlier in life to earn an income that is considered obscene to many.  

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"I Am A Child"I am a child, I'll last a while.You can't conceiveof the pleasure in my smile.You hold my hand,rough up my hair,It's lots of funto have you there.God gave to you,now, you give to me,I'd like to knowwhat you learned.The sky is blueand so is the sea.What is the color,when black is burned?What is the color?You are a man, you understand.You pick me upand you lay me down again.You make the rules,you say what's fair,It's lots of funto have you there.God gave to you,now, you give to me,I'd like to knowwhat you learned.The sky is blueand so is the sea.What is the color,when black is burned?What is the color?I am a child, I'll last a while.You can't conceiveof the pleasure in my smile. Neil Young BG, life is so painful and so beautiful it hurts. I rejoice and weep for us all.

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With every post you produce a more clear picture of what truly causes the bottleneck of progress this country suffers from.  What I learned living in Asia is this: America is a legalistic society. Western thought separates emotion and logic. I tried to post some research here economic emotional intelligence game theory. Didn't work, but I'll make a prediction: History will look back on Western liberals and see them as having highly developed logic, education, social dependency, reasoning powers, and so on - and very little commmon sense. Emotional basket cases. Bond Guy, what you really seek is poverty. It would be good for you. You have been waiting for someone to tell you what you already know. http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/3/6/3/3/3/pages363330/p363330-42.php

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tenthtee wrote:"Bond Guy", I am sure everyone respects you as a person and no one here wants to change who you are. If you ever grow up emotionally and live in the big boy house, you will understand. I can't say what would cause that. In the mean time, my observation about you is that you come across as being passive aggressive in how you debate most issues. You cross a line that involves respect the dignity of others.  Where does that come from?  But I thank you for what I have learned here from you, it gives me new perspective on progressives. I don't. I respect his right to an opinion but I do not respect him or his opinion. He is either a liar, hypocrite or just fukin with us. There is no way he can have these views and then look his clients in the face while providing true unbiased advice. BondGuy either lies to us, his clients or himself. There is no way he built a practice with out building it for wealthy people and understanding how wealth is built.Wealth is built by innovation, imitation or exploitation. To categorize all wealthy people in the last group is absurd. I will even go a step further and say to categorize all white, wealthy, conservative, Christians in the last group is also absurd.

tenthtee's picture
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Yeah, I was just trying to be nice. Bond Guy strikes me as a wealthy guy who feels guilty and is worried about losing his wealth. At least, he is bored and has never experienced real poverty. I have NEVER heard someone who came from impoverishment or who is living in poverty talk like him (while taking $$$ for being a " bond guy" and bragging about his motorcycles and boats and such). There are emotionally immature people everyone, but I am beginning to understand that Obama is emotionally  immature, and he represents an entire generation of finger pointing "progressives" who feel comfortable doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to impose their strange ideology on the masses. Now I can put my finger on what has been scaring and depressing me. We are being governed by children ( and I'm not singling out any political party). Time for the adults to take back the big houses, and the discussion forums. Debating with children makes me feel kind of weird. I'm done with it.

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I point out the ugly policies of the right and their elected representatives and the two of you start calling me names. Guys, and that's an assumption on my part, that you re both male, grow some skin. If you can't handle what the people you've elected are doing to the poor people in this country, well then, change your vote. By the way, most of my clients know where i stand and have no problem with it. Thus the constant bombardment with repub/right wing emails cartoons etc.  Turns out, adults can discuss these things and agree to disagree. 

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I do not mind discussing anything with anyone. I actually enjoy most discussions, especially when there is a chance someone can gain a better understanding of the topic being discussed. But with your blind generalization and unsubstantiated accusations in your posts, I cannot see a way for this to happen. Therefore I will call a spade a spade until you show me otherwise. Also after reading this thread again, I must say there is no way you are serious... There is no freakin way you tell your clients what you have said in this thread. A couple questions for you, how can you offer clients appropriate investment opportunities without adding debt instruments from for-profit corporations? Do you tell your clients "no sir, I cannot sell you that Big Mean Company's bond because they only work their employees 38 hours a week so they can avoid paying them full time benefits" or do you go home at night and struggle looking at yourself in the mirror because you profited from selling the fat-cats debts so they can raise money to build another 10 stores this year to do more of the same to the poor?Do you refuse to sell the automakers debt because they keep building plants overseas? Do you refuse to sell bonds from financial companies because as you said they are raping the poor for 30%? What do you sell your clients?

iliketennis's picture
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Fingerpointing happens on both sides of the isle. That was the point of my previous post. Fingers point at different areas, but they point just the same.

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N.D. wrote:I do not mind discussing anything with anyone. I actually enjoy most discussions, especially when there is a chance someone can gain a better understanding of the topic being discussed. But with your blind generalization and unsubstantiated accusations in your posts, I cannot see a way for this to happen. Therefore I will call a spade a spade until you show me otherwise. Also after reading this thread again, I must say there is no way you are serious... There is no freakin way you tell your clients what you have said in this thread. A couple questions for you, how can you offer clients appropriate investment opportunities without adding debt instruments from for-profit corporations? Do you tell your clients "no sir, I cannot sell you that Big Mean Company's bond because they only work their employees 38 hours a week so they can avoid paying them full time benefits" or do you go home at night and struggle looking at yourself in the mirror because you profited from selling the fat-cats debts so they can raise money to build another 10 stores this year to do more of the same to the poor?Do you refuse to sell the automakers debt because they keep building plants overseas? Do you refuse to sell bonds from financial companies because as you said they are raping the poor for 30%? What do you sell your clients?ND, you are way over the top here. You've taken my statements to the extreme. The are no blind generazations here. Nor unsubstantiated accusations. I post the truth and you call it an attack. If there is something you believe to untrue, by all means, tell me.In the end, it's really simple, the dems are party of the people, and the repubs are the party of money. You are for one or the other. It isn't dems standing in the way of helping people. An example that's the subject of heated debate, health care: a woman feels a lump in her breast. She has no insurance so she goes to the free clinic to get it checked out. it takes almost a month to finally have a doctor check it out and the news is grim, cancer. The doc gives her info on programs that treat the poor. She's in luck because the state has appointed a hospital for cases just like hers. Unfortunately for her she can't get anyone at the hospital to help her. They stonewall her, tell her she has bad information. remember what i said about the poor having no choices? The stonewalling works with most poor because they don't have the resources to fight. She is turned away to face a certain death.With the health care bill this woman has as much chance of survival as any woman in your family or mine. She will get treatment. Without it, she will die. Why? Because of money? Exactly! So, on this one issue, here is the way i see it: if i can pay taxes to support a 3 trillion dollasr wasted effort war, I can certainly afford to pay one trillion dollars to make sure that no one who is a citizen of the greatest country on the planet dies because they don't have access to adequet health care. So  again, it is that simple, you are either for people or you are for money. That's your choice. The rest of it is just noise, spin to cover up the fact that regarding the health care bill being for money is a death sentence for a large number of people.  

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No you are wrong. It is not an either/or choice. But that is what you are making it seem to be. You know what you have said and unless you go back and edit your posts so will everyone else here. I asked you several questions none of which were about the current health care program. The only thing I can guess is you live in make-believe land filled with cotton candy and warm furry bunnies, so in a way I guess I have my answers.I will ask you another question. The average income for a person in the US is 50k per year. Do you donate all your income over this amount to charity? Do you deserve more income than the average person? Do you put your money were your mouth is or do you buy more of these...BondGuy wrote:Toyz?We got some:Country Coach Allure 40 - we're not campers. We use Homer to further other pursuits.Boston Whaler Dauntless 18 "Pole Dancer"- Sold, sale closes next week. Fun but we're done.Hobie 16 - Bought new in 1986 and raced extensively. The last of the sail boat fleet.Honda Reflex Scooter- a fun daily commuter bike.R56 Mini Cooper S - Also on the block to sell. Hey, those front tires were fine when I bought it! A fun year, i'm bored, time to move on.Current  Designs Solstice GT HV kevlar sea kayak - OK, the the kayak rides on top of the Grand Cherokee which is flat towed behind Homer. Nova Scotia to Key West, we've covered a lot of ground and a lot of water once we got there.Current Designs Scirocco poly sea kayak - see aboveDagger Baja sea kayak - sameBell Merlin 2 Carb/kev canoe- it's 15 ft long and weighs 30lbs. easy to lift.Dagger Reflection 15 Royalex - It's 15 ft long and weighs 50lbs. Not so easy to lift.Mad River Explorer royalex- 16 ft, 70 lbs, of rock bashing long haul trucker canoe.Lemond Zurich road bike - Spine design CF/steel, easy riding century machine.Trek 520 touring bike - The Chevy Suburban of touring bikes. I use mine for LD riding and fitness. Trek 950 hardtail mountain bike - It's 20 years old and starting to show some wear. Still I' ve put about 100 hours on this bike ytd. (I measure off road use by time) it's my rain/snow bike as well. Martin Accoustic Guitar - it's a lefty D15, and it's for sale. DLG RC Gliders - fun but what a learning curve.  I'm getting into surf fishing so I'm gearing up for that. And another pursuit in which Homer increases the possibilities with treking between Hatteras and Montauk. Pull into Camp Hatteras, Fish, bike, kite, kayak, and do some RC ridge riding on the dunes. Or, sit and relax on the beach. Nah, sitin is time wastin.What about that boat you were going to buy this past summer? Did you change your mind and donate all that sinful money to your local VA hospital? You may be fighting a just cause but I sure am finding it hard to believe. Good luck with you and your side since according to you, we must pick a side.

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Democrats are not the party of the people.  How do you figure that?Democrats are the party of a beneficial society.  Republicans are the party of personal responsibility.  We need both.They are not mutually exlusive.I take exception to your take on the wars being wasteful.  As a veteran of those wars, I can tell you that more good was done than evil and that the protections of the citizens of this country actually occurred because we had those wars.Unless you have seen with your own eyes, you are only guessing and using what the media tells you (it's not as wonderful as FoxNews makes it out to be, but neither is it as horrible and UNNECESSARY as MSNBC makes it out to be).   

Jennifer Nettles's picture
Joined: 2010-03-01

Jean Luc Picard?Neil Young?wow.  i like itgreatest show ever in the history of TV.   gene rodenberry and rick berman are 2 guys i'd love to have a beer with-so creative."sleep data...........""jean Luc is tired""no...wait.......its a message about the Borg'classic    neil quotes?neil had a brain tumor.     when asked about it he said"I have something on my mind"Neil is the man

Jennifer Nettles's picture
Joined: 2010-03-01

N.D. wrote: What about that boat you were going to buy this past summer? Did you change your mind and donate all that sinful money to your local VA hospital? funny.   local VA hospitalGates, soros and bond trying to get to heaven.gates and soros because they fukced so many people in their lives.........

Jennifer Nettles's picture
Joined: 2010-03-01

On this thread i came out strongly because the TP movement is, IMO, so
wrongheaded. It's anger is what's wrong with this country today. I must
get a dozen teap arty supporrer emails a day. All balasting obama or the
dems. And every single one of them factually incorrect. Everyone of
them!!!!! Yet, the senders of the emails take them as fact. Not to
mention highly racist. Which of course, is the under story here. Many
are pissed off that a black man is in the oval office.above is a bond quote.ok  bond.   i think owebama and his gang beleive that govt can make things better.  that govt is the answer in so many different areashistory has told us time after thime that is this IS NOT TRUEfree markets create wealth, not govt.tell me how how the above 3 statements are incorrect , in your opionion? i am not racist at all.   we all freakin equal.   all just doing the best we can. 

Jennifer Nettles's picture
Joined: 2010-03-01

 tenthtee wrote:Nettles u be one bad mother. im not jenniferJennifer Nettles is a country singer for band sugarland.I have the hots for her.    She is not that hot but she flips my skirt.She might even be on the wrong team.  (whcih is ok, i could get her over to our side)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUElqcOupAchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iDPw_qjhtM&ob=av3e

BondGuy's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-21

Jennifer Nettles wrote:On this thread i came out strongly because the TP movement is, IMO, so wrongheaded. It's anger is what's wrong with this country today. I must get a dozen teap arty supporrer emails a day. All balasting obama or the dems. And every single one of them factually incorrect. Everyone of them!!!!! Yet, the senders of the emails take them as fact. Not to mention highly racist. Which of course, is the under story here. Many are pissed off that a black man is in the oval office.above is a bond quote.ok  bond.   i think owebama and his gang beleive that govt can make things better.  that govt is the answer in so many different areashistory has told us time after thime that is this IS NOT TRUEfree markets create wealth, not govt.tell me how how the above 3 statements are incorrect , in your opionion? i am not racist at all.   we all freakin equal.   all just doing the best we can. I agree with you on the free markets, and to a point about govt not working. I take exception with your opinion of Obama. Obama is well intentioned. To tell the truth he's been dealt a tough hand. In admins past the prez has been able to come to consensus with the opposing party for the good of the nation. Not so these days! The repubs stand as a rock in the road regardless of the human cost. They've, in my opinion, absolutely polarized the country. Everything is pitched from the extremes, there is no middle ground. Of course this makes progress all but impossible and it lets the repubs stand and frame our current condition as failure, Obama as a failure. This is why i said you and others were stupid to buy into the TP's messege. That message is part of bought and paid for strategy to put repubs back in office. The RNC ,through the TP, is cashing in on voters misdirected anger and misleading them further. Question that? Do you or anyone else here honestly beleive, economically,  we'd be in a different place  today if repubs were in control? If you do, as the saying goes I've got a bridge to sell you. That we wouldn't be in a different place proves the vitrol coming from the TP and RNC is bullshit. Yet, you are all-in.AS for govt not working? Did you get your mail today? is you trash collected? If you call the police, do they answer the phone? Did your elderly aunt get her SS check today? Does medicaid pay for her healthcare? Would our military not answer the call to arms?Government works. The entitlement programs aren't bankrupt because they are bad programs or are poorly adminstered. They are broke because every senator and congressman elected in the past 40 years has used them as a personal pork piggy bank. Equal blame. Yet the repubs point their bacon stained fingers at the dems while demanding fiscal responsibility. Make no mistake, the dems share equal blame, but do you not see the duplicity in this?  As well, that your ATM card works today, you can thank the governement. The bailouts, you remember them, the TP's rallying cry? As disgusting as it was to give all that dough to the stupid people who helped create the problem, the program was a success, it saved our butts. The post office is poorly run. Both parties share blame. Still, my mail comes everyday. Butttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!So, mostly, government does work. My question for you: Regarding the woman with breast cancer who is refused treatment because she has no insurance, if we repeal healthcare, and she dies for lack of treatment, who's fault is that?  

BondGuy's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-21

N.D. wrote:No you are wrong. It is not an either/or choice. But that is what you are making it seem to be. You know what you have said and unless you go back and edit your posts so will everyone else here. I asked you several questions none of which were about the current health care program. The only thing I can guess is you live in make-believe land filled with cotton candy and warm furry bunnies, so in a way I guess I have my answers.I will ask you another question. The average income for a person in the US is 50k per year. Do you donate all your income over this amount to charity? Do you deserve more income than the average person? Do you put your money were your mouth is or do you buy more of these...BondGuy wrote:Toyz?We got some:Country Coach Allure 40 - we're not campers. We use Homer to further other pursuits.Boston Whaler Dauntless 18 "Pole Dancer"- Sold, sale closes next week. Fun but we're done.Hobie 16 - Bought new in 1986 and raced extensively. The last of the sail boat fleet.Honda Reflex Scooter- a fun daily commuter bike.R56 Mini Cooper S - Also on the block to sell. Hey, those front tires were fine when I bought it! A fun year, i'm bored, time to move on.Current  Designs Solstice GT HV kevlar sea kayak - OK, the the kayak rides on top of the Grand Cherokee which is flat towed behind Homer. Nova Scotia to Key West, we've covered a lot of ground and a lot of water once we got there.Current Designs Scirocco poly sea kayak - see aboveDagger Baja sea kayak - sameBell Merlin 2 Carb/kev canoe- it's 15 ft long and weighs 30lbs. easy to lift.Dagger Reflection 15 Royalex - It's 15 ft long and weighs 50lbs. Not so easy to lift.Mad River Explorer royalex- 16 ft, 70 lbs, of rock bashing long haul trucker canoe.Lemond Zurich road bike - Spine design CF/steel, easy riding century machine.Trek 520 touring bike - The Chevy Suburban of touring bikes. I use mine for LD riding and fitness. Trek 950 hardtail mountain bike - It's 20 years old and starting to show some wear. Still I' ve put about 100 hours on this bike ytd. (I measure off road use by time) it's my rain/snow bike as well. Martin Accoustic Guitar - it's a lefty D15, and it's for sale. DLG RC Gliders - fun but what a learning curve.  I'm getting into surf fishing so I'm gearing up for that. And another pursuit in which Homer increases the possibilities with treking between Hatteras and Montauk. Pull into Camp Hatteras, Fish, bike, kite, kayak, and do some RC ridge riding on the dunes. Or, sit and relax on the beach. Nah, sitin is time wastin.What about that boat you were going to buy this past summer? Did you change your mind and donate all that sinful money to your local VA hospital? You may be fighting a just cause but I sure am finding it hard to believe. Good luck with you and your side since according to you, we must pick a side.Wow, your short and curlies are really twisted in a knot!  I'll listen, tell me what i said about the repubs, christians etc that is not true. Set me straight!  

BondGuy's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-21

lovindaindy wrote:Democrats are not the party of the people.  How do you figure that?Democrats are the party of a beneficial society.  Republicans are the party of personal responsibility.  We need both.They are not mutually exlusive.I take exception to your take on the wars being wasteful.  As a veteran of those wars, I can tell you that more good was done than evil and that the protections of the citizens of this country actually occurred because we had those wars.Unless you have seen with your own eyes, you are only guessing and using what the media tells you (it's not as wonderful as FoxNews makes it out to be, but neither is it as horrible and UNNECESSARY as MSNBC makes it out to be).   Lowest common denominator - repubs = money  and dems = people. Right now we are polarized.As for the war, no question the media wisted things to their POV. That's not the issue. The issue is, why were we there? Lot of blood spilled and money spent. For what?

lovindaindy's picture
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Joined: 2009-05-07

BondGuy wrote:lovindaindy wrote:Democrats are not the party of the people.  How do you figure that?Democrats are the party of a beneficial society.  Republicans are the party of personal responsibility.  We need both.They are not mutually exlusive.I take exception to your take on the wars being wasteful.  As a veteran of those wars, I can tell you that more good was done than evil and that the protections of the citizens of this country actually occurred because we had those wars.Unless you have seen with your own eyes, you are only guessing and using what the media tells you (it's not as wonderful as FoxNews makes it out to be, but neither is it as horrible and UNNECESSARY as MSNBC makes it out to be).   Lowest common denominator - repubs = money  and dems = people. Right now we are polarized.As for the war, no question the media wisted things to their POV. That's not the issue. The issue is, why were we there? Lot of blood spilled and money spent. For what? For safety of our citizens.  If terrorists are attacking troops (who are trained to fight), they tend to be less focused on our citizenry.  Make no mistake, when our troops are out of Afghanistan and Iraq, we WILL be attacked again.   

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