PSDs?

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MAVERICKTAI9's picture
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Joined: 2010-12-16

After observing for a while I have to say this forum is great. Recently I've been discussing w/ my boss (old school ACE Greenberg fan) in a theoretical way the value of PSDs and the "romantisization of "poor, smart, deep desire..." This is do to the fact that, although being driven and motivated; I am from an affluent background, been private schooled, and graduated from a pres. university.  I've noticed that some of those from a more blue-collar-like class w/little or no college (or college) and with a DEEP desire to be rich sometimes cut more corners and act in ways that are less than ethical. I'm not saying all but just rebutting to the over-affection for these types. Perhaps this attitude that is based on pragmatism and self-preservation does not think so much about things like regulation, biz relations etc. I understand our country has a deep love for self-made men/chicks (jk, women) but this rags to richs story has been over-sexified. Just wondering what others' think about PSDs vs overprivledge backgrounds in general and the advantages and disadv?

series7taxguy's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-16

You can certainly succeed in this field from any background, although I'd wonder why anyone would choose it among several options if they can "back door" their way into the same types of rewards elsewhere. I don't think background determines the financial rewards sought by the individuals that pursue them, but the way in which the success is calculated. If you're from a disadvantaged background, you are probably attracted to fields in which success is more objectively determined, such as sales, athletics, business ownership, etc. For those who are already at the top anyway, why not just pursue something that gives the appearance of objectivity but is ultimately a birth right? (Expensive academic credentials, fields with high base salaries and inflated title independent of outcome, etc.) In my experience a person from a wealthy background is going to be much more interested in title or perceived prestige of their position rather than income.

BigFirepower's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-09

Ok, I'm going to think about the 6 places I worked over the last 20 yrs in this business, and the hundreds of folks that I've known as Registered Representatives. Ok, I'm thinking... The silver spoon folks, very, and I mean VERY rarely succeed as your typical main street registered rep. It is just waaay to much work, punishment, time, ego check for them. Somehow, they think their impressive educational resume is supposed to make a difference, and it doesn't. They think too, that their "connections" will carry them, and they don't materialize or add up to enough to get them past the first year or two. The typical RR that succeeds, is someone that is a born salesman, or a born winner, usually NOT from the upper crust of society. Of that group, there are a few that are very driven by what you talk about, that envy Ferraris, Porsche, fancy homes, fine dining, the bustiest bimbos, nicest shoes/purses.... Those types, pretty rare, yes, they'll do anything to make a buck. The Reps I've known, they hardly EVER talk about College or High School because that is the past, and talking about that is for losers and has beens. Many, of the elitist upper crust types, no, they belong in positions where performance doesn't matter, so their BS talk, fancy ties from Harvard, mean something to other Mommy/Daddy financed types. I actually cannot think of a single person I know in this biz that has upper crust education and an old money background that hasn't been anything other than a big fat embarassing bomb. I know lots of folks, myself included, that barely passed High School, never went to College, that are not just successful, but are admired for their skills and integrity. My disdain, or bad experience with the typical Harvard/Stanford/Yale type, might just be where I'm from, and my own unique experiences? Well, let's see what others have to say. Interesting subject, please share more if you'd like. Also, what is it that you do in the business of Finance? 

series7taxguy's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-16

Big Fire Power, I haven't been in the game 20 years, but I'm also trying to think about past coworkers....Here's a summary:-Biggest two producers I've ever known: One had immigrant background and a B.A. from a state school where I'm sure his academic performance was incidental. Sports scholarhip. The other managed a used car lot and became an FA at 32, now in the game 25 years ang biggest book in region. Couple semesters of college before dropping out.-Biggest flame out I've ever seen (still a good friend, btw!) is a Columbia MBA with mommy's money. Spent all day trading options in his own account, one of the few he ever brought in.  

primoisanass's picture
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Joined: 2010-10-23

BigFirepower wrote:Ok, I'm going to think about the 6 places I worked over the last 20 yrs in this business, and the hundreds of folks that I've known as Registered Representatives. Ok, I'm thinking... The silver spoon folks, very, and I mean VERY rarely succeed as your typical main street registered rep. It is just waaay to much work, punishment, time, ego check for them. Somehow, they think their impressive educational resume is supposed to make a difference, and it doesn't. They think too, that their "connections" will carry them, and they don't materialize or add up to enough to get them past the first year or two. The typical RR that succeeds, is someone that is a born salesman, or a born winner, usually NOT from the upper crust of society. Of that group, there are a few that are very driven by what you talk about, that envy Ferraris, Porsche, fancy homes, fine dining, the bustiest bimbos, nicest shoes/purses.... Those types, pretty rare, yes, they'll do anything to make a buck. The Reps I've known, they hardly EVER talk about College or High School because that is the past, and talking about that is for losers and has beens. Many, of the elitist upper crust types, no, they belong in positions where performance doesn't matter, so their BS talk, fancy ties from Harvard, mean something to other Mommy/Daddy financed types. I actually cannot think of a single person I know in this biz that has upper crust education and an old money background that hasn't been anything other than a big fat embarassing bomb. I know lots of folks, myself included, that barely passed High School, never went to College, that are not just successful, but are admired for their skills and integrity. My disdain, or bad experience with the typical Harvard/Stanford/Yale type, might just be where I'm from, and my own unique experiences? Well, let's see what others have to say. Interesting subject, please share more if you'd like. Also, what is it that you do in the business of Finance? 

In my experience BFP is right about this

MAVERICKTAI9's picture
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Joined: 2010-12-16

Yea you're prob right BFP. I'm a fin adviser or whatever pretensious name thats been thought of; I like to call myself a Stockbroker though. I was a trader though b4. Being a mid-80s kid I love the era and feel like I missed out on oppurtunites like listening to Talking Heads and being scared of Dick Fuld while prop trading. In regards to my post, biggest producer old guy really rags on me do to not being a PSD. I might have S and D but the P part is not me. Yea, I've also seen silver spoon types fail as brokers and "self-made" guys get Bentlys' (retarded buy I think though). However, I resent the fact that alot of guys think being "hungry" and "driven" is synonamous with being from a blue collar background. I enjoy my job and have wanted to be a stockbroker since I watched the days watching Police Academy 3. I think its the one of best positions in a firm. Its just interesting to me that people think I'm a "M&A type" and most guys from my background are getting CFAs and MBA stuff. I think once you've build somekind of start to a book of biz this is AWESOME!. I just think its fascinating that in my experience guys who have don't anything unethical btw brokers have been money hunry new rich. Yes, people of every background cheat; maybe instead of PSDs being the sexified class of brokers, theres an advantage to guys who aren't from such a self-preservation-like background in terms of biz relationships and such. Very interesting topic that nobody discusses because mostly we've all gotten over it in group broker settings.   

BigFirepower's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-09

LOL Maverick, yeah, our biz has interesting titles and acronyms for "salesman". Well, I try to do a bit more than that. We really work hard to be a friend of the family, almost always do biz face to face. I graduated HS in 85, and while the music in some arenas was groundbreaking, you do realize that it was also the time period for Michael Jackson, Madonna, Milli Vanilli, Quiet Riot, and other groups that make me want to "gag with a spoon". My country/golf club, has old wealth, new wealth, and low net worth high income types. Most of the old wealth, old guys, are the ones that went from being raised poor but somehow made it big in "something". Mostly timber and r/e, being out here in the far west. Those old guys are really cool, and they love "young" guys like me and some of the other guys like me that did it on their own. Well, then there are the children and grandchildren of those old codgers. Nobody really cares for the old money young folks, other than their close friends, who are also the silver spoon types. The young new wealth guys, and old wealthy codgers don't like the arrogance and self importance of the silver spooners, and pretty much make fun of them every time they turn their backs. Granted, there are a few guys that come from wealth that are pretty cool, and I notice that they never want to talk about their family background, lest they get lumped in with the "fools". Hey, if you've had the benefit of wealth growing up, and got a decent education while you were at it, and now you've got something on your own and you really enjoy it. Well, in that case, you got it made. Granted, and you know this, always going to be someone that says, "his mommy gave that to him". Ok, Maverick, one question. Is there anything in that really expensive and fancy education you got, that has made a big difference in your life. And I don't want to hear about "I created a great network". No, practical and useful education is what I mean.  

MAVERICKTAI9's picture
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Joined: 2010-12-16

Yea, ha your club sounds like same demographic that my mentor guys are. They're awesome but I get the friendly ribbing from them. Furthermore, whats wrong with Mili Vanilli besides being caught? The era was def a fun time "Duran Duran-Lehman bros jets to casinos" type of time. Also Reagan-era excess sounds better than making practical recommendations. About great schools: "I created a great network" stuff isn't understated for me. In NYC, I needed an apt nxt to a new satellite office and I had countless frat bros who offered and then I took one. Really its the k-12 private school I went to which I feel develops kids in a free enviornment which fosters growth. ABout college its great going to events @ places like Princeton Club when guys like Ace Greenberg speak and hangout. What my fancy-shmancy college got me was ability to wear blue-blazers, acceptance w/anglos (IM ASIAN, but tall), and ability to seduce Indian girls. SO those 3 r key on the street. OK so im glib. thnx for the reply BFP, Ive followed some of your posts and I take your advice that you've given on posts of various subjects with importance.  

BigFirepower's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-09

Thanks, that's kind. One of those Milli bros, he offed himself ya know... Lip synching is dangerous huh?I worked when others went to school. I got paid, and got lots of biz experience while others went to school. That allowed me an early start in this biz at 24. I've got a network too, and nobody needed to shell out 40k per year so I could learn how to beer bong he he. Now, I did go to Private school from 7-12, and that kept me out of trouble til I was at least 18. But man, I look at what private school costs now, and there is no way in heck I could have afforded 10-12k per year for a student, let alone my 4, yes 4 kids. Fortunately, public schools these days in my neighborhood are intense, kids are getting a very good education. A fellow I know, my age is a teacher. He says schools are far better than when he went to school. I'd agree with that.  For the money, they'd better be.

newregrep's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-22

I wish to be there someday.  I wish to be somewhere BFP, Bondguy, and other great vets on this board have achieved (or journey as some of you quote).  I don't have an incredible background either, but I'm also very new to the business.  I always did OK in schools, I never did GREAT but I did OK.  I'm an immigrant from Seoul, South Korea and came to the US at the age of 10.  I was in ESL (Exceptionally Stupid Losers lol jk English Second Language) program for 6 months and picked up English rather quickly.I excelled in Math, not because I was smart, but Asian education is extremely rigorous.  They teach calculus in elementary school in Seoul Korea, so I didn't have to open a textbook until I was 17.  I'm your stereotypical asian guy.  I loved video games (I'm genetically engineered to be amazing at all video games), and excelled in math.  But one thing, I excelled in sports as well..I loved basketball and looked up to MJ, Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwan, and many other great ball players in the 90s. Besides that, I studied just enough to get by...I HATED studying I just wanted to make money, play games, shoot hoops, and hang out with girls.With that said, I was involved in sales my entire life!  I sold Cutco Knives from door to door at the age of 16 for a year (made about 15 dollars an hour in commission), and worked at a credit card company for a year before I jumped into mortgages, banking and now FA.  I also made music and I still do now as a side job/hobbie.  I loved music ever since I was a child, and taught myself how to play the piano.  Till this day, I cannot read sheet music but I can play the music if I hear it.  I sold hip-hop beats online via MP3.com when it was up, and recently sold a piece I made 4 years ago to a show called "Bad Girls Club".  Selling mortgages and music paid for my entire state school, which I was very very proud of.Will I succeed? I think that depends 100% on myself, and if you're asking the same question to yourself, it depends 100% on you.  I always say this, "If my parents can succeed through hard work, sweat and blood shedding hardwork here in the US without the language proficiency, connections, friends, and capital...I really have no excuse."Life isn't fair you know? A lot of my friends grew up very wealthy and they are rich beyond my imagination at this point due to their parents handing them a business.  My best friend's father owns 6 wine stores in manhattan NYC, and he was handed 3 of them as his graduation present.  This guy makes over a million dollars a year and he's 27..works maybe 35 hours a week.  Another friend of mine's father was a well known dentist in long island...he sold his practice and bought chains of dunkin donuts and now my friend is making millions as well.Then there are normal guys like us.  I was never handed anything, in fact, I've been a giver all my life.  Struggled all through out college and just got my foot in the door.  I may be years and even a century behind my friends, but my success will be that much tastier, and more fulfilling. 

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Not trying to bust your bubble but i had never met a person that made six figures until i started in this business. You already know two millionaires that i bet know many other qualified prospects. 2 turns into 4 turns into 8 and so on... Ask for the order and ask for referrals.

newregrep's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-22

6 figures in NYC is really nothing...it's so expensive to live here in a decent neighborhood that if you're not making 6 figures as a household, it would be tough to live.  That's another question I ask myself everyday, "why the hell do I live here???"I love your quote by the way, that Geico commercial always cracks me up. 

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Very true. Six figs is probably average income in NYC and 50k is average nationally but you get my point. Hang out with people you know have money because they will hang out with others that have money. You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with (best way to put it I have ever heard). It sucks in this business because I am friends with some really poor but really cool people.RE: Geico - The woodchuck and the presentation with tech difficulties are my next favs. Funny stuff.

BigFirepower's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-09

NewReg, your post was awesome, very inspiring. I'd bet big money on you... 

newregrep's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-22

Thanks BFP, I hope so too!

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