ProShares Ultra S&P index - VERY CURIOUS

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FreeLunch's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

I'M REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT SOMETHING.
How many of you are familiar with the S&P 500 Ultra Index Fund
Supposedly does DOUBLE the upside and DOUBLE the downside.
My question is....
WHY IS THIS THING NOT A LONG-TERM HOLD??????????
Tell me what you truly think...

xbanker's picture
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Joined: 2007-01-21

Slightly higher internal fee, although much less than what you'd pay for 2:1 margin on spy or ivv. You could also theoretically loose everything (say if the index unlikely drops 50%). My concern is not necessarily with the ultra long ETFs but with the ultra (and ultra ultra) shorts which render nearly every nasd rule regarding shorting in ira or use of leverage irrelivant. We need to either remove rules as outdated OR indicate that derivatives which have exactly the same purpose as a prohibited underlying security are prohibited. Read FIASCO by Frank Partnoy about the numerous crooked deals in the derivatives market, or do a wikipedia search for Frank Citron or Nick Leeson.

Brokermike99's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-12

SSO is a long term hold in my ROTH. Every time the market takes a dive I buy a little bit more. I also own some PKW as a long term hold, it's kind of interesting to look at it's history (or rather the history of its respective index)

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Brokermike99 wrote:SSO is a long term hold in my ROTH. Every time the market takes a dive I buy a little bit more. I also own some PKW as a long term hold, it's kind of interesting to look at it's history (or rather the history of its respective index)
I can't have a roth.  Sucks that you can.

blarmston's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-26

I can't have a roth.  Sucks that you can.
He's probably a likeable guy, and with comments like those, you seem like a douche...

anonymous's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-29

Ferris, Were you a superstar in your first year or just not smart enough to establish a Roth?

Brokermike99's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-12

I can no longer fund a ROTH, but I'm slowly building up the assets that were in there! If you can't fund one right now don't forget to fund your non-deductible and flip it in 2010

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

anonymous wrote:Ferris, Were you a superstar in your first year or just not smart enough to establish a Roth?
My wife works too you nitwit.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

blarmston wrote:
I can't have a roth.  Sucks that you can.
He's probably a likeable guy, and with comments like those, you seem like a douche...

You should learn another word, use some imagination instead of calling everyone a douche.  Seriously, you seem like a likeable guy, but always using the same cliche cutdown.... lame.   Be original, I know you can.

anonymous's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-29

Don't worry, Ferris.  Keep working hard and someday you'll be able to afford to have your wife stay home and take care of the family.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Why in the world would I want her to give up her 30 hour per week 100K job?  We'll be retired by 50, or didn't they teach you about wealth building in your broker school?

blarmston's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-26

You should learn another word, use some imagination instead of calling everyone a douche.  Seriously, you seem like a likeable guy, but always using the same cliche cutdown.... lame.   Be original, I know you can.
I will work on that this weekend....

anonymous's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-29

More power to you, Ferris.  We made the decision to put the needs of our family first which means my wife is a stay-at-home mom. 
Before you get your panties in an uproar, don't take this to mean that I'm implying that you don't do the same thing.
Even with your wife making $100K, you had to have a hell of a rookie year to not be Roth eligible.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

anonymous wrote:
Even with your wife making $100K, you had to have a hell of a rookie year to not be Roth eligible.

 
Thank you for the compliment!

EDJ to RIA's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-28

Back on topic, if you use one of the ultra-short or ultra ETFs be sure to use stops like you would for a volatile stock.

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