Insanity Test...

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troll's picture
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Whomitmayconcer wrote:
Please stop talking in party line ese and think about what you are saying. 

 
Not bad advice. Are you going to follow it?

troll's picture
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BondGuy wrote:Anyone who has taken the time to educate themselves on the subject knows Clinton took the correct course of action regarding Al-Qaeda.
You just have to be joking.

troll's picture
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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
BondGuy wrote:
We can debate endlessly who is responsible for 9/11 however, regardless of who's sitting in the oval office, the next attack is squarely on Bush. I fear that a next is not an if, only a when and where.

Who was responsible for 9/11?  How about Islamic extremists?
 
Bondguy doesn't think these guys exist.

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Let's see, they tried to pay a general to lead an army of veterans to force the president to accetpt changes that would essentially render the Constitution null and void. That is better than just "essentially " what I said happened.
Interestingly, they, like this administration does, said that they were intending to do the exact opposite of what they were intending to do. they said they were looking to defend the Constitution, when in fact they were looking to destroy it.
In either case, the fact remains that there were lots of people looking for an alternate system to the one we had. The nation was disolving and FDR ressurected it.
So when whomeverit was that wants to just ignore the Hoover and Roosevelt presidencies when calculating the relative performance of the Dow, I say, read a book! 

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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
BondGuy wrote:
We can debate endlessly who is responsible for 9/11 however, regardless of who's sitting in the oval office, the next attack is squarely on Bush. I fear that a next is not an if, only a when and where.

Who was responsible for 9/11?  How about Islamic extremists?
Who will be responsible for the next attack?  How about Islamic extremists?
Why do those of your ilk want to blame the United States, when the blame is clearly on the shoulders of Islam?

Sorry, I clipped my comments.
For the reading comprehension impaired; We can debate endlessly who is responsible  for not stopping the 9/11 terrorist, however, not stopping the next attack, regardless of who is in office, is squarely on Bush.
Blame Islam? Blaming Islam is like blaming the car for the crash. Or more closely, blaming the gun for the murder. It's not the religion that is to blame, it's its misuse by the hate mongers who wish to dominate the world. And make no mistake, i'm no fan of religion. Its latest use as a hammer to murder people is nothing new. Though I'm amazed at how many stupid people there are in the world to fall into such traps. Of course that's all part of the process, keep'em uneducated, keep'em stupid. It's worked throughout history.
That said, the current mess and mismangement in Iraq, all us.
 

troll's picture
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Whomitmayconcer wrote:
Let's see, they tried to pay a general to lead an army of veterans to force the president to accetpt changes that would essentially render the Constitution null and void. That is better than just "essentially " what I said happened.
 
No, not even close. You said someone tried to "buy" the Army.
 
 
 
 

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mikebutler222 wrote:
Yeah, that's it, I'm a Jihadi, and I've spent the last 15 years going deep cover in the securities industry. However, after all that work to dig myself in, I just can't help but post on an internet website about the plans.
 
OK, back from the Twilight Zone. I suggest you take a moment of two to actually read what the Jihadies themselves say their agenda's about. It has nothing to do with your issues with US foreign policy.

Okay, while I'm reading about you, why don't you go back to my previous response and answer my questions?  Thanks.

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BondGuy wrote:
Blame Islam? Blaming Islam is like blaming the car for the crash.
 
No one said "blame Islam". We've all been pretty clear that we're talking about Islamic extremists. Those would be the people who believe their religion calls them to establish the dominance of their religion over all others, to kill non-believers and to fly planes into buildings.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 
Failing to recognize what motivates them, even though they’ve told you many, many times, just so you can overlay the Left’s standard argument that essentially says that the terrorists simply share their (the Left’s) dismay with US foreign policy, it’s just that they’re (the terrorists) violent about it, is tedious. It pretends that the terrorists share your view of the world and that if we only followed policies the Left has espoused forever, we could reach common ground and peaceful coexistence with the Jihadies. No doubt they’d chuckle of that one as they cut off your head. It’s like a death pact of some sort.
 
 
 
Or more closely, blaming the gun for the murder. It's not the religion that is to blame, it's its misuse by the hate mongers who wish to dominate the world. And make no mistake, i'm no fan of religion. Its latest use as a hammer to murder people is nothing new. Though I'm amazed at how many stupid people there are in the world to fall into such traps. Of course that's all part of the process, keep'em uneducated, keep'em stupid. It's worked throughout history.
That said, the current mess and mismangement in Iraq, all us.
 

BondGuy's picture
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mikebutler222 wrote:Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
BondGuy wrote:
We can debate endlessly who is responsible for 9/11 however, regardless of who's sitting in the oval office, the next attack is squarely on Bush. I fear that a next is not an if, only a when and where.

Who was responsible for 9/11?  How about Islamic extremists?
 
Bondguy doesn't think these guys exist.

Oh, i know that they exist. And I know those who causually follow current events call them islamic extremists.
They are extremists, that we agree on. Unforunately for the Islamic religion many believe this is a religious war, Islam verus the world. It's not. It's a war waged by power hungery madmen who have hijacked Islam to achieve their goals of domination. First over their own people and then over the rest of us. That you keep insisting on making this a religious war is where we disagree. For the leaders of Al-Qaeda, Islam is nothing more than a tool to spread hate, maintain control, and excite the masses to take action. It may be a religious war to the misled followers and to those like you, who don't know any better, even though you should. However, it's not any more a religious war than was WW2.
Unfortunately for all of us, the same crew that brought us the bungled Katrina clean up and mission accomplished on board the USS Abraham Lincoln are the same people charged with protecting us from future attacks. They've provided terrorist worldwide with a first class training ground while the terrorist head remain at large operating openly and free from worry of attack or apprehension. I work in a high rise tower in a downtown office canyon of a major city that has bullseye written all over it. Yeah, I feel safe.

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BondGuy wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:Devil'sAdvocate wrote: <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
BondGuy wrote:
We can debate endlessly who is responsible for 9/11 however, regardless of who's sitting in the oval office, the next attack is squarely on Bush. I fear that a next is not an if, only a when and where.

Who was responsible for 9/11?  How about Islamic extremists?
 
Bondguy doesn't think these guys exist.

Oh, i know that they exist. And I know those who causually follow current events call them islamic extremists.
“Casually follow call them Islamic extremists”?  Is there another title that fits them and their motivation better?
BondGuy wrote:
First over their own people and then over the rest of us. That you keep insisting on making this a religious war is where we disagree. For the leaders of Al-Qaeda, Islam is nothing more than a tool to spread hate, maintain control, and excite the masses to take action.
Just who are you, exactly, to tell us and the Jihadies that they’re not motivated by their twisted view of the Islamic religion? Of course they want power, what you refuse to understand, and beyond all reason, is what it is they want to do with that power. I suppose if you can ignore their religious agenda, then you can pretend they’re like every other challenge we’ve ever faced as a nation, you can underestimate the danger they present, and you can pretend that if only the right politician is elected (your guy, of course) we’ll all be able to reach some middle ground, hold hands and sing Kumbya together…
BondGuy wrote: Unfortunately for all of us, the same crew that brought us the bungled Katrina…….
Ohhhh, that’s why. Because if it’s not really about the Jihadi’s religious motivation, then it’s about Bush….
Perhaps you missed the fact that the Jihadi’s don’t give a rat’s ass about you and your hyper-partisan politics. They attacked us under Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II. They couldn’t care less about the intramural squabbles in US politics.
 
 

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Mandoman wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
Yeah, that's it, I'm a Jihadi, and I've spent the last 15 years going deep cover in the securities industry. However, after all that work to dig myself in, I just can't help but post on an internet website about the plans.
 
OK, back from the Twilight Zone. I suggest you take a moment of two to actually read what the Jihadies themselves say their agenda's about. It has nothing to do with your issues with US foreign policy.

Okay, while I'm reading about you, why don't you go back to my previous response and answer my questions?  Thanks.

 
About "me"? You're still pretending I'm a Jihadi and not someone who, unlike you, actually knows something about what motivates them?

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BondGuy wrote:
Unfortunately for all of us, the same crew that brought us the bungled Katrina clean up

What does the Mayor of New Orleans have to do with the War in Iraq?

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BondGuy wrote:
Unfortunately for all of us, the same crew that brought us the bungled Katrina clean up ....
Devil's advocate is right about this. Mayor  Nagen and Gov. Blanco have nothing to do with this.
BondGuy wrote:...and mission accomplished on board the USS Abraham Lincoln ....
Neither does the crew of the Lincoln, whose mission was in fact accomplished. Bush, you may have noticed, said it wasn't over in Iraq and that a great deal of work remainded there.
BondGuy wrote:...are the same people charged with protecting us from future attacks.
Yep, six years, no attacks in the US, no embassies leveled elsewhere...you were saying?
BondGuy wrote:...They've provided terrorist worldwide with a first class training ground ..
What Al Qaeda's learning to do in Iraq is die. How to die and how to get the local population to join with US and Iraqi government forces to drive them out. See Al Anbar province for details.
BondGuy wrote:...while the terrorist head remain at large operating openly and free..
"Openly and free"? Is that why we haven't seen UBL in three years? Is that why Zawahiri is living in a cave in a remote part of Pakistan and smuggling out videos? Care to compare this to the days when Clinton handled Al Qaeda, according to you, "correctly"?
 
 BondGuy wrote:...I work in a high rise tower in a downtown office canyon of a major city that has bullseye written all over it. Yeah, I feel safe.

How safe did you feel after the WTC attack in 1993 when Clinton downplayed the importance and didn't respond militarily?

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mikebutler222 wrote:
About "me"? You're still pretending I'm a Jihadi and not someone who, unlike you, actually knows something about what motivates them?

YOU asked me a question and when I answered it, YOU told me that the Jihadis don't care what I think.  Since YOU answered my response by telling me what the Jihadis think, I could only presume that YOU are the Jihadis.  YOU were not speaking for them?  My misunderstanding.
Of course, YOU know what motivates them.  Perhaps you should take your confidence to Mr. Bush and provide some insight of these people.  We, as a nation/government, can't seem to figure them out and I am sure your assistance would be appreciated.
I didn't think you could answer my questions, since they probably aren't on whatever 'speaking points' list you are using.
When you have served our country, come back and then we all can talk about patriotism a bit.
 

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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
BondGuy wrote:
Unfortunately for all of us, the same crew that brought us the bungled Katrina clean up

What does the Mayor of New Orleans have to do with the War in Iraq?

Louisiana
74
 
 
 
 

 
Albany
Persing, Charles C. "C.C."
Private 1st Class
19-Jul-2004

 
Avondale
Cothran, Derrick J.
Lance Corporal
15-Apr-2006

 
Batchelor
Ramsey, Christopher J.
Sergeant
28-Jan-2005

 
Baton Rouge
Kirk, Jeffrey L.
Sergeant
12-Dec-2004

 
Baton Rouge
McCurdy, Ryan S.
Lance Corporal
05-Jan-2006

 
Baton Rouge
Heltzel, Paul M.
Sergeant
15-Mar-2005

 
Baton Rouge
Barnett, Christopher W.
1st Lieutenant
23-Dec-2004

 
Bogalusa
Stewart, David S.
Corporal
03-Aug-2005

 
Bossier City
Nelson, Craig L.
Sergeant
29-Dec-2004

 
Bossier City
Sembly, Bernard L.
Sergeant
19-May-2005

 
Bossier City
Atkins, Julia V.
Sergeant
10-Dec-2005

 
Bossier City
Burrows, Joshua C.
Private
26-Nov-2006

 
Bunkie
Lewis, Bryan A.
Staff Sergeant
13-Mar-2006

 
Columbia
Dantzler, Torey J.
Private 1st Class
22-Jul-2004

 
Covington
McLeese, Justin D.
Lance Corporal
13-Nov-2004

 
Crowley
Trahan, Seth R.
Sergeant
19-Feb-2005

 
Crowley
Cain, Marcus A.
Corporal
14-Sep-2006

 
Dubach
Bowman, Jon Eric
Lance Corporal
09-Oct-2006

 
Felixville/Clinton
Murray, David Joseph
Sergeant
09-Jun-2005

 
Ferriday
Partridge, Willard Todd
Sergeant
20-Aug-2005

 
Franklinton
Villar, Linda J.
Civilian
03-Jun-2005

 
Gonzales
Chism, Johnathan Bryan
Specialist
20-Jan-2007

 
Houma
Frickey, Armand L.
Sergeant
06-Jan-2005

 
Houma
Babin, Christopher J.
Sergeant
06-Jan-2005

 
Houma
Bergeron, Bradley J.
Sergeant
06-Jan-2005

 
Jeanerette
Ayro, Lionel
Private 1st Class
21-Dec-2004

 
Kaplan
Mallet, Toby W.
Staff Sergeant
09-Apr-2004

 
Kinder
Manuel, William F.
Staff Sergeant
10-Jan-2005

 
Krotz Springs/Opelousa
Reed, Jonathan Ray
Staff Sergeant
28-Jan-2005

 
Lafayette
Thibodeaux III, Joseph C.
Corporal
01-Sep-2004

 
Lafayette
Burridge, David Paul
Private 1st Class
06-Sep-2004

 
Lafayette
Teeters, Brandon L.
Sergeant
12-May-2006

 
Lafayette
McMillan, Jacob G.
Staff Sergeant
20-Dec-2006

 
Lafayette
Graham, Mark W.
Private
07-Mar-2007

 
Lafayette
Celestine Jr., Willie P.
Corporal
26-Apr-2007

 
Lake Charles
Bellard, Wilfred Davyrussell
Private 1st Class
04-Apr-2003

 
Lake Charles
Edwards, Chase A.
Private 1st Class
06-Apr-2006

 
LaPlace
Fassbender, Huey P. L.
Sergeant
06-Jan-2005

 
Mandeville
DuSang, Robert L.
Specialist
30-Jun-2004

 
Marrero
Murphy, Warren A.
Sergeant
06-Jan-2005

 
Marrero
Evans II, Michael S.
Sergeant
28-Jan-2005

 
Metairie
Hahn, Peter J.
Sergeant 1st Class
24-May-2005

 
Metairie
Vosbein, Matthew J.
Sergeant
29-Aug-2006

 
Morgan City
Bordelon, Michael J.
1st Sergeant
10-May-2005

 
Mount Hermon
Wells, Larry L.
Lance Corporal
06-Aug-2004

 
Natchitoches
Sinclair, Isiah J.
Sergeant
26-Mar-2005

 
Natchitoches
Champlin, Donald E.
Lance Corporal
27-Aug-2006

 
New Orleans
Godbolt, Lee M.
Sergeant
26-Mar-2005

 
New Orleans
Lambert, James P.
Private 1st Class
25-May-2004

 
New Orleans
Williams, Taft V.
Sergeant
12-Aug-2003

 
New Orleans
Heines, Jeremy M.
Specialist
26-Jun-2004

 
New Orleans
Knox Jr., Rene
Sergeant
13-Feb-2005

 
New Orleans
Schelbert, Jens E.
Staff Sergeant
01-Oct-2005

 
New Orleans
Dumas Jr., Joseph C.
Corporal
17-Oct-2006

 
Olla
Knighten Jr., Floyd G.
Sergeant
09-Aug-2003

 
Opelousas
Davis, Craig
Staff Sergeant
08-Jan-2004

 
Opelousas
Sebastien, Myles Cody
Lance Corporal
20-Dec-2006

 
Pineville
Sweeney III, Robert Wesley
Sergeant
10-Jan-2005

 
Raceland
Comeaux, Kurt J.
Sergeant 1st Class
06-Jan-2005

 
Ruston
Olivier, Nicholas J.
Sergeant
23-Feb-2005

 
Shreveport
Barnhill, Edward C.
Command Sergeant Major
14-May-2004

 
Shreveport
Fell, Robin V.
Sergeant
19-May-2005

 
Shreveport
Hale, John Edward
Lance Corporal
06-Oct-2006

 
Shreverport
Jones, Gussie M.
Captain
07-Mar-2004

 
Sibley
Madden, Joshua B.
Sergeant
06-Dec-2006

 
St. Tammany
Hayes III, William S.
Specialist
05-Feb-2006

 
Thibodaux
Gauthreaux, Jay R.
Sergeant
04-Dec-2006

 
Thibodaux
Sanders, Ronnie L.
Staff Sergeant
03-Feb-2007

 
Tickfaw
Kinchen, Levi B.
Specialist
09-Aug-2003

 
West Monroe
Powell, Chad W.
Corporal
23-Jun-2005

 
West Monroe
Barnes, Matthew Ron
Lance Corporal
14-Feb-2006

 
West Monroe
Deal, Lee Hamilton
Petty Officer 3rd Class
17-May-2006

 
Winnsboro
Wallace, Terry O.P.
Sergeant 1st Class
27-Jun-2006

 
Zachary
Crouch, William J.
Specialist
02-Jun-2007

AlphamaleB4u's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-11

Listen, nobody gets out of this alive.  Whether the guys wearing a turbon or a baseball cap sieways...we're all gonna' die.
Quite worrying/debating it, get on the horn and slam ham: Die rich.
allla achbar!!
 
 

troll's picture
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Mandoman wrote:mikebutler222 wrote: <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
About "me"? You're still pretending I'm a Jihadi and not someone who, unlike you, actually knows something about what motivates them?

YOU asked me a question and when I answered it, YOU told me that the Jihadis don't care what I think.  Since YOU answered my response by telling me what the Jihadis think, I could only presume that YOU are the Jihadis.  YOU were not speaking for them?  My misunderstanding.
Ditz. I suggest you simply read what the leaders of Al Qaeda have written about what motivates them. It’s no secret. And they don’t care what you think about their motivation. They’re rather clear on the subject.
Mandoman wrote:[Of course, YOU know what motivates them.  Perhaps you should take your confidence to Mr. Bush and provide some insight of these people.  We, as a nation/government, can't seem to figure them out and I am sure your assistance would be appreciated.
The only people confused about the aims of the terrorists are the hyper-partisans who are willfully ignorant on the subject. Again, I can only suggest you read bin Laden’s letters to his followers, or Al-Zawahiri’s correspondence to the late head of Al Qaeda in <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Iraq.
Mandoman wrote:I didn't think you could answer my questions, since they probably aren't on whatever 'speaking points' list you are using.
Address a question to me and I’ll answer it. Play the cuteis “are you a Jihadi” game and I’ll simply ridicule you.
Mandoman wrote:When you have served our country, come back and then we all can talk about patriotism a bit.
 

 
 
I never mentioned patriotism, but it’s tell how often the Left throws that issue up, as if someone’s slighted them on the subject.
 
For what it’s worth, I have served my country, been there, done that. Thanks for asking. Oh, and if it means anything else to you, I had a nephew lose his life in Al-Anbar province last year. Not that his sacrifice of my military service are meant to be clubs that I intend to beat you with. I simply mention them both because you asked.
 
 

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Mandoman wrote:Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
BondGuy wrote:
Unfortunately for all of us, the same crew that brought us the bungled Katrina clean up

What does the Mayor of New Orleans have to do with the War in Iraq?

Louisiana
74
 
 
 
 

 
Albany
Persing, Charles C. "C.C."
Private 1st Class
19-Jul-2004

 
Avondale
Cothran, Derrick J.
Lance Corporal
15-Apr-2006

 
Batchelor
Ramsey, Christopher J.
Sergeant
28-Jan-2005

 
Baton Rouge
Kirk, Jeffrey L.
Sergeant
12-Dec-2004

 
Baton Rouge
McCurdy, Ryan S.
Lance Corporal
05-Jan-2006

 
Baton Rouge
Heltzel, Paul M.
Sergeant
15-Mar-2005

 
Baton Rouge
Barnett, Christopher W.
1st Lieutenant
23-Dec-2004

 
Bogalusa
Stewart, David S.
Corporal
03-Aug-2005

 
Bossier City
Nelson, Craig L.
Sergeant
29-Dec-2004

 
Bossier City
Sembly, Bernard L.
Sergeant
19-May-2005

 
Bossier City
Atkins, Julia V.
Sergeant
10-Dec-2005

 
Bossier City
Burrows, Joshua C.
Private
26-Nov-2006

 
Bunkie
Lewis, Bryan A.
Staff Sergeant
13-Mar-2006

 
Columbia
Dantzler, Torey J.
Private 1st Class
22-Jul-2004

 
Covington
McLeese, Justin D.
Lance Corporal
13-Nov-2004

 
Crowley
Trahan, Seth R.
Sergeant
19-Feb-2005

 
Crowley
Cain, Marcus A.
Corporal
14-Sep-2006

 
Dubach
Bowman, Jon Eric
Lance Corporal
09-Oct-2006

 
Felixville/Clinton
Murray, David Joseph
Sergeant
09-Jun-2005

 
Ferriday
Partridge, Willard Todd
Sergeant
20-Aug-2005

 
Franklinton
Villar, Linda J.
Civilian
03-Jun-2005

 
Gonzales
Chism, Johnathan Bryan
Specialist
20-Jan-2007

 
Houma
Frickey, Armand L.
Sergeant
06-Jan-2005

 
Houma
Babin, Christopher J.
Sergeant
06-Jan-2005

 
Houma
Bergeron, Bradley J.
Sergeant
06-Jan-2005

 
Jeanerette
Ayro, Lionel
Private 1st Class
21-Dec-2004

 
Kaplan
Mallet, Toby W.
Staff Sergeant
09-Apr-2004

 
Kinder
Manuel, William F.
Staff Sergeant
10-Jan-2005

 
Krotz Springs/Opelousa
Reed, Jonathan Ray
Staff Sergeant
28-Jan-2005

 
Lafayette
Thibodeaux III, Joseph C.
Corporal
01-Sep-2004

 
Lafayette
Burridge, David Paul
Private 1st Class
06-Sep-2004

 
Lafayette
Teeters, Brandon L.
Sergeant
12-May-2006

 
Lafayette
McMillan, Jacob G.
Staff Sergeant
20-Dec-2006

 
Lafayette
Graham, Mark W.
Private
07-Mar-2007

 
Lafayette
Celestine Jr., Willie P.
Corporal
26-Apr-2007

 
Lake Charles
Bellard, Wilfred Davyrussell
Private 1st Class
04-Apr-2003

 
Lake Charles
Edwards, Chase A.
Private 1st Class
06-Apr-2006

 
LaPlace
Fassbender, Huey P. L.
Sergeant
06-Jan-2005

 
Mandeville
DuSang, Robert L.
Specialist
30-Jun-2004

 
Marrero
Murphy, Warren A.
Sergeant
06-Jan-2005

 
Marrero
Evans II, Michael S.
Sergeant
28-Jan-2005

 
Metairie
Hahn, Peter J.
Sergeant 1st Class
24-May-2005

 
Metairie
Vosbein, Matthew J.
Sergeant
29-Aug-2006

 
Morgan City
Bordelon, Michael J.
1st Sergeant
10-May-2005

 
Mount Hermon
Wells, Larry L.
Lance Corporal
06-Aug-2004

 
Natchitoches
Sinclair, Isiah J.
Sergeant
26-Mar-2005

 
Natchitoches
Champlin, Donald E.
Lance Corporal
27-Aug-2006

 
New Orleans
Godbolt, Lee M.
Sergeant
26-Mar-2005

 
New Orleans
Lambert, James P.
Private 1st Class
25-May-2004

 
New Orleans
Williams, Taft V.
Sergeant
12-Aug-2003

 
New Orleans
Heines, Jeremy M.
Specialist
26-Jun-2004

 
New Orleans
Knox Jr., Rene
Sergeant
13-Feb-2005

 
New Orleans
Schelbert, Jens E.
Staff Sergeant
01-Oct-2005

 
New Orleans
Dumas Jr., Joseph C.
Corporal
17-Oct-2006

 
Olla
Knighten Jr., Floyd G.
Sergeant
09-Aug-2003

 
Opelousas
Davis, Craig
Staff Sergeant
08-Jan-2004

 
Opelousas
Sebastien, Myles Cody
Lance Corporal
20-Dec-2006

 
Pineville
Sweeney III, Robert Wesley
Sergeant
10-Jan-2005

 
Raceland
Comeaux, Kurt J.
Sergeant 1st Class
06-Jan-2005

 
Ruston
Olivier, Nicholas J.
Sergeant
23-Feb-2005

 
Shreveport
Barnhill, Edward C.
Command Sergeant Major
14-May-2004

 
Shreveport
Fell, Robin V.
Sergeant
19-May-2005

 
Shreveport
Hale, John Edward
Lance Corporal
06-Oct-2006

 
Shreverport
Jones, Gussie M.
Captain
07-Mar-2004

 
Sibley
Madden, Joshua B.
Sergeant
06-Dec-2006

 
St. Tammany
Hayes III, William S.
Specialist
05-Feb-2006

 
Thibodaux
Gauthreaux, Jay R.
Sergeant
04-Dec-2006

 
Thibodaux
Sanders, Ronnie L.
Staff Sergeant
03-Feb-2007

 
Tickfaw
Kinchen, Levi B.
Specialist
09-Aug-2003

 
West Monroe
Powell, Chad W.
Corporal
23-Jun-2005

 
West Monroe
Barnes, Matthew Ron
Lance Corporal
14-Feb-2006

 
West Monroe
Deal, Lee Hamilton
Petty Officer 3rd Class
17-May-2006

 
Winnsboro
Wallace, Terry O.P.
Sergeant 1st Class
27-Jun-2006

 
Zachary
Crouch, William J.
Specialist
02-Jun-2007

I'm sure that makes sense to someone, somewhere. Nice use of the dead, btw.
 

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

How many people from Louisiana died in World War Two?
How about Viet Nam?
Anybody want to wager that it was more than 74?
STOP WHINING!

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MandomanGroupieJoined: March 07 2007Location: United StatesPosts: 45

Posted: July 23 2007 at 1:10pm | IP Logged

mikebutler222 wrote:

I'm sorry to be the one bringing you the bad news, but the Jihadi's really don't care about your views on US foreign policy, they don't care about diplomacy, they don't care about what you call arrogance. All they care about is their twisted version of Islam, reestablishing it, Islamic government and Shir’a law across the old Caliphate map, and killing non-believers. They’re not just a group of misunderstood “Patriots” who happen to have every view in common with the average NPR listener except the how to change the course of US policies.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O />
You don't have to believe me, simply read what they've said themselves. And, if after you're read their words, if it still bothers you to accept the world as it is, please have the courtesy to step aside and let others who don’t shrink back from the grisly nature of our enemy do what needs to be done keep you and the other sheep safe from it.
No offense.

 

You asked, so I answered.  You asked and Jihadi's don't care what I think.... So, how long have you been a Jihadi?
What does the Natural Products Report (NPR) have to do with any of this????  You Jihadis are very confusing, always diverting attention elsewhere.
Was Sadaam a Jihadi?  I thought he was a cultural nationalist.
Let me be the first to inform you, we are working on kicking your Jihadi ass.  Eventually, you will come to the table.
MikeB,
Your reference of patriots, ie patriotism, is in blue.  My questions you have not answered are in red.
I am sorry for the loss of your nephew and thank you for your service.

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mikebutler222 wrote:
 
No one said "blame Islam". We've all been pretty clear that we're talking about Islamic extremists. Those would be the people who believe their religion calls them to establish the dominance of their religion over all others, to kill non-believers and to fly planes into buildings.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 
 

You call them Islamic extremist yet you don't blame Islam? That's a contradiction.
Why not call it Helter Skelter? Madmen convincing the uneducated and easily led to commit murder through the use of twisted reasoning? Manson used the White Album, bin Laden the Quran, Same thing.
They are extremist who have hijacked Islam for their own twisted purposes. If Catholicism had been the major religion on their section of the planet they would have hijack it. They use the religion only to mislead and control. Manson used the White album to do the same thing.
To make your statement close to true it would have to read  "those people who are misled to believe their religion calls them to establish dominance..."
 
 

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Snipped the tasteless flogging of dead soldiers for your own use to score points in an internet argument.
I'm sure that makes sense to someone, somewhere. Nice use of the dead, btw.
This is what really bothers me about these types of arguments and especially those from the leftists.  First, you use the names of dead soldiers, some one's private pain, so you can do gotcha on the internet.  If I were to see my relative or friends name used as a checker on a board so you can get one up in an argument, I would want to hunt you down and kneecap you.
You guys always throw out the "we care about the soldiers" smoke screen, when it is obvious that you don't care about them in the flesh, just the abstract.  If you did, you wouldn't be supporting the people who are trying to kill them (and us) by giving verbal encouragement to continue fighting..... after all....we are just about to run tail and hide.
Same situation goes with calmly discussing pulling out of the Middle East with out any real feeling or actual concern for what is going to happen to the people we are abandoning.   I don't care to rehash all the fine points leading up to where we are now.  That's pointless. 
In trying to score gotcha points on your opponents, you (generic you meaning leftist..nothing personal...yet) ignore the certainty that millions of real living, breathing people with hopes and dreams are going to be slaughtered.   Even Obama is up with genocide as long as it helps him win an election.  This is despicable.
This endless bickering about things in the past, blind refusal to acknowledge the present and future consequences of our actions and obstructionism is going to be the end of our country.  We have a Congress right now that is as usless as tits on a boar ( old family saying)  They are screwing around trying to find an impeachment needle in a haystack and accomplishing nothing.   Well, not exactly nothing, they have earned the contempt of the American People and have the lowest regard EVER for Congress.  You do know what happens when the majority of the people hates their own government don't you?

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BondGuy wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
 
No one said "blame Islam". We've all been pretty clear that we're talking about Islamic extremists. Those would be the people who believe their religion calls them to establish the dominance of their religion over all others, to kill non-believers and to fly planes into buildings.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 
 

You call them Islamic extremist yet you don't blame Islam? That's a contradiction.
Not in the least. I blame RADICAL Islam. For all I know mainstream Islam doesn't advocate killing non-believers and doesn't favor flying planes into buildings.
Again, your burning desire to play down the fantical religious nature of their motivation makes no sense.

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mikebutler222 wrote:
I'm sure that makes sense to someone, somewhere. Nice use of the dead, btw.

Maybe I am mistaken, but I still have hope that elected officials care about the people they represent.  What does the Mayor of NO have to do with Iraq?  He has lost some of the people he represents there.  He represents the families of those who have been lost there.
If we don't recognize the sacrifices made, then they have died in vain.  This is a hero list of those from Louisiana who died defending your right to be free.  I should have reduced it down to the New Orleans heroes in response to your question.

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Mandoman wrote:

MandomanGroupieJoined: March 07 2007Location: United StatesPosts: 45

Posted: July 23 2007 at 1:10pm | IP Logged

mikebutler222 wrote:

I'm sorry to be the one bringing you the bad news, but the Jihadi's really don't care about your views on US foreign policy, they don't care about diplomacy, they don't care about what you call arrogance. All they care about is their twisted version of Islam, reestablishing it, Islamic government and Shir’a law across the old Caliphate map, and killing non-believers. They’re not just a group of misunderstood “Patriots”
I use the word patriots here not to slight you, but to use the term people like Micheal Moore use to describe Jihadis.
who happen to have every view in common with the average NPR listener except the how to change the course of US policies.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O />
You don't have to believe me, simply read what they've said themselves. And, if after you're read their words, if it still bothers you to accept the world as it is, please have the courtesy to step aside and let others who don’t shrink back from the grisly nature of our enemy do what needs to be done keep you and the other sheep safe from it.
No offense.

 

You asked, so I answered.  You asked and Jihadi's don't care what I think.... So, how long have you been a Jihadi?
What does the Natural Products Report (NPR) have to do with any of this???? 
I thought you were kidding on this one. NPR refers to National Public Radio. Again, I was referring to the Western framework so many of the Left try to apply to terrorists to make sense of their agenda. They refuse to see it for what it is, regilous fanticism, and want to see it as the usual laundry list of complaints they've harbored about US foreign policy forever. IOW, the Jihadies only differ from the stereotypical NPR listener in that the listeners wouldn't use violence to change US policy.
You Jihadis are very confusing, always diverting attention elsewhere.
Was Sadaam a Jihadi?  I thought he was a cultural nationalist.
He was a Baathist. A Pan-Arab nationalist. However, the enemy of his enemy was the US (and Isreal, which is why he funded suicide bombers). That's why, even before the invasion, there were Al Qaeda members and members of other terrorist groups that had killed Americans taking refuge in his tightly controlled nation. Know where the people behind the first WTC bombing in 1993 ran to? Iraq.
Let me be the first to inform you, we are working on kicking your Jihadi ass.  Eventually, you will come to the table.
MikeB,
Your reference of patriots, ie patriotism, is in blue.  My questions you have not answered are in red.
I am sorry for the loss of your nephew and thank you for your service.

No problem, and thanks.

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You call them Islamic extremist yet you don't blame Islam?
Well then, I blame Islam just as I blame the Catholic Church for the Inquisition and the Protestants in Salem for burning witches.   When a religion goes off the rails and the members of the religion don't stop or protest the actions of their religion, they are just as much to blame.   
If Muslims want to be distanced from the extremists and bring their religion back to a more sane and humane form they need to get off their butts and do something.  The fact that they don't tells me that they agree with what is being done in the name of their religion and that they consider jihad a part of their religion
So, yes. I blame Islam as a religion and all of the participants until they show some action that proves otherwise.

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Are you stupid because you're a leftist, or are you a leftist because you're stupid?
The reason Mayor Nagin came up was because one of you dimbulbs tried to link the Hurricane Katrina fiasco with the War in Iraq.
Those of us who think know that what happened in New Orleans is the fault of the Mayor and the Governor--that the Federal government had no responsibility for what happened because dealing with storms is a state and local issue.
As it should be.

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Mandoman wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
I'm sure that makes sense to someone, somewhere. Nice use of the dead, btw.

Maybe I am mistaken, but I still have hope that elected officials care about the people they represent. 

 
You have to be kidding. Devil's Advocate counter's Bondguy's cheap shot about botched Katrina by mentioning the man most resposible for making New Orlean's agony the nightmare that is was, the mayor who left school buses to flounder and sent poor people to the Superdome instead, and you chime in with a list of dead troops from Lousiana like it says something about Nagin?

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Dust Bunny wrote:
So, yes. I blame Islam as a religion and all of the participants until they show some action that proves otherwise.

A huge percentage of Muslims believe that killing Americans is a worthy goal of Islam.
Yet in cities all over the country Mosques are being built to spread their particular brand of hatred.
This country is extremely screwed up.

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Dust Bunny wrote:
DB, i luv ya but
Snipped the tasteless flogging of dead soldiers for your own use to score points in an internet argument.
I'm sure that makes sense to someone, somewhere. Nice use of the dead, btw.
This is what really bothers me about these types of arguments and especially those from the leftists.  First, you use the names of dead soldiers, some one's private pain, so you can do gotcha on the internet.  If I were to see my relative or friends name used as a checker on a board so you can get one up in an argument, I would want to hunt you down and kneecap you.
And the right (or is it rightist?) tell us the U.S.Body count in Iraq is only 4000 and to stop whining. Ok for the right ot pull in the dead to 'Gotcha" but not the left? At least the left (I believe it to more the centered view) isn't so cold as casually say it's only 4000 what's the big deal?
You guys always throw out the "we care about the soldiers" smoke screen, when it is obvious that you don't care about them in the flesh, just the abstract.  If you did, you wouldn't be supporting the people who are trying to kill them (and us) by giving verbal encouragement to continue fighting..... after all....we are just about to run tail and hide.
I'm tired of the "we're helping them win the war" by doing no more than exercising my right to free speech. Their leaders are the ones giving them encouragement. I'm speaking out about the mismanagement of a war that should have been mopped up by now. And i'm screaming mad my leaders have gotten us into this mess. It will be the critics of this administration who force change for the better, not those who go along with the status que. Note i didn't say we should pull out of Iraq. How about we stop the half assed prosecution of the war? Lets start there.
Same situation goes with calmly discussing pulling out of the Middle East with out any real feeling or actual concern for what is going to happen to the people we are abandoning.   I don't care to rehash all the fine points leading up to where we are now.  That's pointless. 
We are not responsible for these people. From their POV we don't have a better way. 
In trying to score gotcha points on your opponents, you (generic you meaning leftist..nothing personal...yet) ignore the certainty that millions of real living, breathing people with hopes and dreams are going to be slaughtered.   Even Obama is up with genocide as long as it helps him win an election.  This is despicable.
This endless bickering about things in the past, blind refusal to acknowledge the present and future consequences of our actions and obstructionism is going to be the end of our country.  We have a Congress right now that is as usless as tits on a boar ( old family saying)  They are screwing around trying to find an impeachment needle in a haystack and accomplishing nothing.   Well, not exactly nothing, they have earned the contempt of the American People and have the lowest regard EVER for Congress.  You do know what happens when the majority of the people hates their own government don't you?
Yep, we elect a guy whose only success was turning a profit with a baseball team by stealing people's property. He made out very well. The people who lost their homes and businesses, not as well. That's what happens when someone tries to find an impeachment needle in a haystack, spends millions doing it, and finally comes up with something that 50 years ago wouldn't get a second nodd. That's what happens. The people turn off, forget it's not about who's blowing who and and make a tragic mistake. one we'll pay for for a long time.
That said, this congress is no bargain and Hillary will be the next president

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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
Are you stupid because you're a leftist, or are you a leftist because you're stupid?
The reason Mayor Nagin came up was because one of you dimbulbs tried to link the Hurricane Katrina fiasco with the War in Iraq.
Those of us who think know that what happened in New Orleans is the fault of the Mayor and the Governor--that the Federal government had no responsibility for what happened because dealing with storms is a state and local issue.
As it should be.

And what makes you think that I am a leftist?  Because I don't see success occurring with the Iraq situation?  So, Domenici (NM), Gregg (NH), Alexander (TN), and Hagel (NE) are leftist, too???  [Okay, maybe Hagel is a bit, but the others?]
Many of you have made way too many assumptions today.  If anyone is of the resolve that, "If you don't agree with me, you are an idiot/leftist/terrorist supporter" then you really need to sit back and reflect on what it is to be an American and what it means to live in a democracy.  This is not a dictatorship, not a communist country, it is a democracy and it is okay for others to have other opinions.  It doesn't make them the enemy.
I voted for George W. two times.  I have been disappointed and thought things would be quite different during his second term.  The turmoil within the administration is very questionable, in my mind.  The continued escalation of the war, even when not in the advice of advisors, is questionable, in my mind.  Does this make me a leftist?
No matter what you think I am, I know one thing for sure.  That is, I'm not a puppet and can think for myself.  If you don't agree with me, fine - convince me how I am wrong.  Resorting to name calling isn't very convincing.
Enough of my ramblings.  I hope each of you have a good night.
God bless you (right or left) and God bless America!

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Devil'sAdvocate wrote: Are you stupid because you're a leftist, or are you a leftist because you're stupid?
The reason Mayor Nagin came up was because one of you dimbulbs tried to link the Hurricane Katrina fiasco with the War in Iraq.
Those of us who think know that what happened in New Orleans is the fault of the Mayor and the Governor--that the Federal government had no responsibility for what happened because dealing with storms is a state and local issue.
As it should be.

What does FEMA mean to you?

Here's what the FEMA website says:

The primary mission of the Federal Emergency Management Agency is to reduce the loss of life and property and protect the Nation from all hazards, including natural disasters, acts of terrorism, and other man-made disasters, by leading and supporting the Nation in a risk-based, comprehensive emergency management system of preparedness, protection, response, recovery, and mitigation.

Preparedness - wasn't there a book a few years ago that walked through this EXACT scenario & how it might unfold? Emergency preparedness is not - just - a state & local responsiblity.

Also, when there are significant cutbacks in aid to states as there has been in the past 6 yrs, state's do what we would do - deal with the urgent & obvious and cut back on the important and less immediate.

I think that's why a certain Democrat President has FEMA as a cabinet-level agency instead of a line hidden in a much larger agency.

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mikebutler222 wrote:BondGuy wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
 
No one said "blame Islam". We've all been pretty clear that we're talking about Islamic extremists. Those would be the people who believe their religion calls them to establish the dominance of their religion over all others, to kill non-believers and to fly planes into buildings.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 
 

You call them Islamic extremist yet you don't blame Islam? That's a contradiction.
Not in the least. I blame RADICAL Islam. For all I know mainstream Islam doesn't advocate killing non-believers and doesn't favor flying planes into buildings.
Again, your burning desire to play down the fantical religious nature of their motivation makes no sense.

Ok, I'd buy that if there was a such thing as radical Islam. There isn't. There is something called radical Islam that has been created by our media. They have to put a name on it so that's what they call it. What it really is, is terrorist who are miss using religion to build an army of lethal misguided uneducated people to slaughter everyone who doesn't tow the line. The line being whatever they say the Quran says it is.
What's sadly tragic is how many people have bought into this spin. That this is that this is a holy war. At least the poor people of the middle east have an excuse. They are uneducated and their access to the truth is severely censored. Believing what your leaders tell you the holy book says is your only choice when you don't know how to read.  What's your excuse? You are an educated person who is making the same mistake, that it's about religion.
It's about domination.

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Ashland wrote:What does FEMA mean to you? QUOTE]
What did FEMA not do that you think was their responsibiliity?
Was New Orleans aware that they were ground zero for the hurricane?
The answer is yes--and at that point the Federal government was out of the picture.
It was up to the city and state to evacuate the city.  They did not do that.
It was up to the state to mobilize the National Guard.  The governor did not do that for days and days, and when she finally did the situation was out of control.
There is no intellectually honest way to deflect blame for that fiasco from where it belongs--Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco.

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What it really is, is terrorist who are miss using religion to build an army of lethal misguided uneducated people to slaughter everyone who doesn't tow the line.
It's tough to agree with you when there isn't an outcry of Muslims speaking out against the terrorism.

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anonymous wrote:
What it really is, is terrorist who are miss using religion to build an army of lethal misguided uneducated people to slaughter everyone who doesn't tow the line.
It's tough to agree with you when there isn't an outcry of Muslims speaking out against the terrorism.

There is absolutely an outcry from Muslims speaking out against the terrorism. Spend some time with Muslims and you'll see for yourself.
The problem is Muslims have no voice in this country. Most of us don't know any Muslims and don't want to know any Muslims.
I too would love to fall into the "if you want us to stop persecuting you get your people in line" type of thinking but i can go there. It's like asking Christians to stop the KKK or else. Way to easy.
As I said, it's sad that the terrorist have co-opted Islam as their recruitment tool and hammer.
That's not to say that there aren't many Muslims who do hate us. But as far as that goes take a number. Mostly we don't deserve to be hated. But plenty of people do just that. An that hate is non denominational.

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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
Ashland wrote:What does FEMA mean to you? QUOTE]
What did FEMA not do that you think was their responsibiliity?
Was New Orleans aware that they were ground zero for the hurricane?
The answer is yes--and at that point the Federal government was out of the picture.
It was up to the city and state to evacuate the city.  They did not do that.
It was up to the state to mobilize the National Guard.  The governor did not do that for days and days, and when she finally did the situation was out of control.
There is no intellectually honest way to deflect blame for that fiasco from where it belongs--Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco.

Actually DA, you've got something wrong here. Nagin did evacuate the city in plenty of time to get the job done. In fact, if anything went right it was the evacuation.
The city had a plan for those who could not evacuate, put them in the largest and thought to be strongest building the city owned, the Superdome, until the calvary, read FEMA, arrived. The city did that.
That the Superdome fell apart is nobody's fault. It took a direct hit.
That people died in their homes? Their own tragically stupid fault for not evcauating when ordered to do so.
Same for those who we watched in those daring rescues by the Coast Guard. And by the way, the Coast Guard was the only Govt agency worthy of praise.
So exactly what did Nagin do wrong? Nothing!
I don't like Nagin or Blanco but they're not the ones who screwed up here. And with the exception of the one or two Bush admin apologist who missed the split screen CNN shot of Chertoff screen right saying he wasn't aware of any crisis at the Superdome while on screen left streaming live video of said crisis played, the entire nation saw exactly who was to blame. And it wasn't nagin or Blanco.
Of course then there's George W ducking blame saying he wasn't briefed about the storm playing split screen with his briefing of the storm by the head of the Natl Hurricane service. That briefing was released by the Natl Hurricane center to deflect criticism that they had failed to do their job in briefing the Prez. They did brief him and had the tape to prove it. What they could never know was that they would be put in a position to have to prove it by none other than the president himself.
 

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BondGuy wrote:Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
Ashland wrote:What does FEMA mean to you?
What did FEMA not do that you think was their responsibiliity?
Was New Orleans aware that they were ground zero for the hurricane?
The answer is yes--and at that point the Federal government was out of the picture.
It was up to the city and state to evacuate the city.  They did not do that.
It was up to the state to mobilize the National Guard.  The governor did not do that for days and days, and when she finally did the situation was out of control.
There is no intellectually honest way to deflect blame for that fiasco from where it belongs--Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco.

Actually DA, you've got something wrong here. Nagin did evacuate the city in plenty of time to get the job done. In fact, if anything went right it was the evacuation.
The city had a plan for those who could not evacuate, put them in the largest and thought to be strongest building the city owned, the Superdome, until the calvary, read FEMA, arrived. The city did that.
That the Superdome fell apart is nobody's fault. It took a direct hit.
That people died in their homes? Their own tragically stupid fault for not evcauating when ordered to do so.
Same for those who we watched in those daring rescues by the Coast Guard. And by the way, the Coast Guard was the only Govt agency worthy of praise.
So exactly what did Nagin do wrong? Nothing!
I don't like Nagin or Blanco but they're not the ones who screwed up here. And with the exception of the one or two Bush admin apologist who missed the split screen CNN shot of Chertoff screen right saying he wasn't aware of any crisis at the Superdome while on screen left streaming live video of said crisis played, the entire nation saw exactly who was to blame. And it wasn't nagin or Blanco.
Of course then there's George W ducking blame saying he wasn't briefed about the storm playing split screen with his briefing of the storm by the head of the Natl Hurricane service. That briefing was released by the Natl Hurricane center to deflect criticism that they had failed to do their job in briefing the Prez. They did brief him and had the tape to prove it. What they could never know was that they would be put in a position to have to prove it by none other than the president himself.

Nonsense.   Mayor Nagin allowed dozens of school buses sit idle while people were walking out of town.
The governor could not stop playing Hamlet regarding the National Guard.
It is not the role of the Federal government to deal with hurricanes and the immediate after effect.  The Federal government is to declare the area a disaster zone, if appropriate, and to support state and local authorities.
For an indication of how it should have been done look to the east.  In Mississippi there were entire towns blown away and/or sucked out to sea.
In Mississippi Governor Barbour reacted quickly, ordered the Guard into the affected areas, asked for FEMA assistance and got about fixing things.
There was also the private sector.  There is a story that a Waffle House along the coast somewhere was without power so they brought in a generator and went about their business on the day after the storm passed.
Meanwhile in New Orleans Mayor Nagin was whining and Governor Blanco was frozen in place like a deer in headlights.

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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:BondGuy wrote:Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
Ashland wrote:What does FEMA mean to you?
What did FEMA not do that you think was their responsibiliity?
Was New Orleans aware that they were ground zero for the hurricane?
The answer is yes--and at that point the Federal government was out of the picture.
It was up to the city and state to evacuate the city.  They did not do that.
It was up to the state to mobilize the National Guard.  The governor did not do that for days and days, and when she finally did the situation was out of control.
There is no intellectually honest way to deflect blame for that fiasco from where it belongs--Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco.

Actually DA, you've got something wrong here. Nagin did evacuate the city in plenty of time to get the job done. In fact, if anything went right it was the evacuation.
The city had a plan for those who could not evacuate, put them in the largest and thought to be strongest building the city owned, the Superdome, until the calvary, read FEMA, arrived. The city did that.
That the Superdome fell apart is nobody's fault. It took a direct hit.
That people died in their homes? Their own tragically stupid fault for not evcauating when ordered to do so.
Same for those who we watched in those daring rescues by the Coast Guard. And by the way, the Coast Guard was the only Govt agency worthy of praise.
So exactly what did Nagin do wrong? Nothing!
I don't like Nagin or Blanco but they're not the ones who screwed up here. And with the exception of the one or two Bush admin apologist who missed the split screen CNN shot of Chertoff screen right saying he wasn't aware of any crisis at the Superdome while on screen left streaming live video of said crisis played, the entire nation saw exactly who was to blame. And it wasn't nagin or Blanco.
Of course then there's George W ducking blame saying he wasn't briefed about the storm playing split screen with his briefing of the storm by the head of the Natl Hurricane service. That briefing was released by the Natl Hurricane center to deflect criticism that they had failed to do their job in briefing the Prez. They did brief him and had the tape to prove it. What they could never know was that they would be put in a position to have to prove it by none other than the president himself.

Nonsense.   Mayor Nagin allowed dozens of school buses sit idle while people were walking out of town.
The governor could not stop playing Hamlet regarding the National Guard.
It is not the role of the Federal government to deal with hurricanes and the immediate after effect.  The Federal government is to declare the area a disaster zone, if appropriate, and to support state and local authorities.
For an indication of how it should have been done look to the east.  In Mississippi there were entire towns blown away and/or sucked out to sea.
In Mississippi Governor Barbour reacted quickly, ordered the Guard into the affected areas, asked for FEMA assistance and got about fixing things.
There was also the private sector.  There is a story that a Waffle House along the coast somewhere was without power so they brought in a generator and went about their business on the day after the storm passed.
Meanwhile in New Orleans Mayor Nagin was whining and Governor Blanco was frozen in place like a deer in headlights.

A few years ago Hurricane Charley missed my west coast Florida house by thirty miles. That is, my house was 30 miles south from the ground zero U.S. Landfall of a cat three hurricane. Houses at ground zero were ripped off the planet. Houses 20 miles from GZ were total loses. My house? A ripped screen. My east coast Florida house sustained a direct hit from Hurricane Frances later that same summer, again with almost no damage. That's the advantage of not being directly on the water. Then in 2005 Wilma made landfall 30 miles south of the west coast house and again we escaped unscathed.
My point: Don't tell me stories about hurricanes.

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BondGuy wrote:
A few years ago Hurricane Charley missed my west coast Florida house by thirty miles. That is, my house was 30 miles south from the ground zero U.S. Landfall of a cat three hurricane. Houses at ground zero were ripped off the planet. Houses 20 miles from GZ were total loses. My house? A ripped screen. My east coast Florida house sustained a direct hit from Hurricane Frances later that same summer, again with almost no damage. That's the advantage of not being directly on the water. Then in 2005 Wilma made landfall 30 miles south of the west coast house and again we escaped unscathed.
My point: Don't tell me stories about hurricanes.

Let me see if I have this right. 
You were almost affected by hurricanes three times and that makes you knowledgable about what happened in New Orleans?
One day I was almost hit by a Ford pickup truck, and on another occasion I was almost run over by a NYC cab, and one time in San Francisco I barely got out of the way of a cable car.
Does that make me an expert on the Department of Transportation?

Dust Bunny's picture
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I live in California, between two volcanoes and near an earth quake fault.  It was my choice.  If all he&& breaks lose should I expect that the government should rush to rescue my stupid a$$ and spend tax payer dollars when I knew I was putting myself in danger.  NO!!
Governments have 3 functions and 3 only. 
1. Protect us from foreign invaders and secure the borders with a standing army and maintain a military  pretty crappy job on the borders so far, I must say.
2.  Protect us from each other. Prosecute crimes against persons and property.   This doesn't include telling us what to eat, to wear seat belts, where to smoke cigarettes, what kind of light bulbs we can use, when to spay our pets or who to marry.
3. Finance public works that are too burdensome for local groups that benefit the whole.  For example communities can't build Hoover Dam or create an interstate highway system.  BUT we can take care of our own local schools and determine if we want to allow people to fish, farm or ....ahem.. in the wilderness.
That's i!!.   Otherwise the government is intrusive into our day to day life and impedes our freedoms. 
So....back to New Orleans.   People there are living below sea level and you expect the federal government to wipe their noses when the inevitable happens; instead of holding the population and (more to the point) the local government accountable for their lack of preparedness and prevention.   Sorry.... you live on the slopes of a volcano don't be surprised when you get burned.

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Scurry bunny, scurry!

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Dust Bunny wrote: I live in California, between two volcanoes and near an earth quake fault.  It was my choice.  If all he&& breaks lose should I expect that the government should rush to rescue my stupid a$$ and spend tax payer dollars when I knew I was putting myself in danger.  NO!!
Governments have 3 functions and 3 only. 
1. Protect us from foreign invaders and secure the borders with a standing army and maintain a military  pretty crappy job on the borders so far, I must say.
2.  Protect us from each other. Prosecute crimes against persons and property.   This doesn't include telling us what to eat, to wear seat belts, where to smoke cigarettes, what kind of light bulbs we can use, when to spay our pets or who to marry.
3. Finance public works that are too burdensome for local groups that benefit the whole.  For example communities can't build Hoover Dam or create an interstate highway system.  BUT we can take care of our own local schools and determine if we want to allow people to fish, farm or ....ahem.. in the wilderness.
That's i!!.   Otherwise the government is intrusive into our day to day life and impedes our freedoms. 
So....back to New Orleans.   People there are living below sea level and you expect the federal government to wipe their noses when the inevitable happens; instead of holding the population and (more to the point) the local government accountable for their lack of preparedness and prevention.   Sorry.... you live on the slopes of a volcano don't be surprised when you get burned.

Yeah! Right now, we need to pull all of those federal fire fighters out of CA and let those homes burn! Arny needs to deal with the fires, not my tax dollars!

Whew, talk about whining if that happened! Ha!

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BondGuy wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:BondGuy wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
 
No one said "blame Islam". We've all been pretty clear that we're talking about Islamic extremists. Those would be the people who believe their religion calls them to establish the dominance of their religion over all others, to kill non-believers and to fly planes into buildings.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 
 

You call them Islamic extremist yet you don't blame Islam? That's a contradiction.
Not in the least. I blame RADICAL Islam. For all I know mainstream Islam doesn't advocate killing non-believers and doesn't favor flying planes into buildings.
Again, your burning desire to play down the fantical religious nature of their motivation makes no sense.

Ok, I'd buy that if there was a such thing as radical Islam. There isn't.
As I said in the beginning, and you denied, you don't think these people exist.

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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:BondGuy wrote:Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
Ashland wrote:What does FEMA mean to you?
What did FEMA not do that you think was their responsibiliity?
Was New Orleans aware that they were ground zero for the hurricane?
The answer is yes--and at that point the Federal government was out of the picture.
It was up to the city and state to evacuate the city.  They did not do that.
It was up to the state to mobilize the National Guard.  The governor did not do that for days and days, and when she finally did the situation was out of control.
There is no intellectually honest way to deflect blame for that fiasco from where it belongs--Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco.

Actually DA, you've got something wrong here. Nagin did evacuate the city in plenty of time to get the job done. In fact, if anything went right it was the evacuation.
The city had a plan for those who could not evacuate, put them in the largest and thought to be strongest building the city owned, the Superdome, until the calvary, read FEMA, arrived. The city did that.
That the Superdome fell apart is nobody's fault. It took a direct hit.
That people died in their homes? Their own tragically stupid fault for not evcauating when ordered to do so.
Same for those who we watched in those daring rescues by the Coast Guard. And by the way, the Coast Guard was the only Govt agency worthy of praise.
So exactly what did Nagin do wrong? Nothing!
I don't like Nagin or Blanco but they're not the ones who screwed up here. And with the exception of the one or two Bush admin apologist who missed the split screen CNN shot of Chertoff screen right saying he wasn't aware of any crisis at the Superdome while on screen left streaming live video of said crisis played, the entire nation saw exactly who was to blame. And it wasn't nagin or Blanco.
Of course then there's George W ducking blame saying he wasn't briefed about the storm playing split screen with his briefing of the storm by the head of the Natl Hurricane service. That briefing was released by the Natl Hurricane center to deflect criticism that they had failed to do their job in briefing the Prez. They did brief him and had the tape to prove it. What they could never know was that they would be put in a position to have to prove it by none other than the president himself.

Nonsense.   Mayor Nagin allowed dozens of school buses sit idle while people were walking out of town.
The governor could not stop playing Hamlet regarding the National Guard.
It is not the role of the Federal government to deal with hurricanes and the immediate after effect.  The Federal government is to declare the area a disaster zone, if appropriate, and to support state and local authorities.
For an indication of how it should have been done look to the east.  In Mississippi there were entire towns blown away and/or sucked out to sea.
In Mississippi Governor Barbour reacted quickly, ordered the Guard into the affected areas, asked for FEMA assistance and got about fixing things.
There was also the private sector.  There is a story that a Waffle House along the coast somewhere was without power so they brought in a generator and went about their business on the day after the storm passed.
Meanwhile in New Orleans Mayor Nagin was whining and Governor Blanco was frozen in place like a deer in headlights.

Exactly. Let's not forget the talking points that came from those two incompetents, that the Iraq war kept them from having the National Guard they needed, and that the Bush administration had shortchanged the levy system. Both of those lies were heralded while people in New Orleans drowned.
Nagin was an absolute disaster (and continues to be to this very day) and Blanco not only impeded the use of the National Guard in a timely fashion, the video shows SHE reported in conference call HOURS after the levy breech that they were intact and holding. FEMA isn’t expected to be onsite within hours (I can tell you from personal experience, having been through a CAT V hurricane), especially when roads and bridges aren’t passable. FEMA supplies can’t be put in the path of a storm, and have to be brought in after it’s passed. That’s the local officials and their propositioned supplies. That’s another area where Nagin failed miserably. He should have been able to care for the people he abandoned in the Superdome for 24-48 hours, but he wasn’t prepared. So much for the claim that it was a smart plan to put people there.
If there was one failure of FEMA it was that they weren’t there to save the day from Blanco/Nagin quicker. Instead of relying on reports from those two nitwits, FEMA should have had CNN on a monitor to see what was really happening on the ground. They should have been there 24 hours earlier. But that’s the entire extent of their response failure. They didn’t put people in peril, that was Blanco/Nagin, the two that go unmentioned in the “Bush screwed New Orleans because he hates black people” fable.
The rest of the mythology about how Nagin/Blanco did a fine job fighting the incompetence of the Bush administration is the very same sort of mythology hyper-partisan Democrats hold as sacred text, just as they hold on to the “stolen election” fantasy against all facts and every investigation.

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BondGuy wrote:That the Superdome fell apart is nobody's fault. It took a direct hit.
 
The Superdowm didn't "fall apart" and it didn't take a direct hit. The issue at the Superdome was that Nagin didn't have supplies and facilities there for the people he abandoned there. They went without food, water and medical attention. All the things that he SHOULD have had in place and prepared to hold people over for 24-48 hours until FEMA could arrive.

troll's picture
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It should concern people that fools who can't understand what happened in New Orleans--or refuse to believe it--are advising others about their money.

troll's picture
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Another legacy of the Nagin approach is the abandoned car issue.
There were thousands of abandoned cars after the water went down.
A guy from Texas showed up offering to buy them and haul them off--if I remember he was going to pay something like $5 million total for all the cars.
Mayor Nagin was too smart to fall for that.  Instead he paid something like $25 million to have them hauled off.
There is inconclusive evidence--isn't it always--that the Mayor received what amonts to kick backs from the firm that was hired.
How bright do you have to be to know that being paid $5 million to get rid of abandoned cars is a better idea than paying $25 million to do the same job?

troll's picture
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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
One day I was almost hit by a Ford pickup truck, and on another occasion I was almost run over by a NYC cab, and one time in San Francisco I barely got out of the way of a cable car.
Does that make me an expert on the Department of Transportation?

I don't know what it says about you and the Dept of Transportation, but it may suggest you need glasses. 

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Oldproducer wrote: Dust Bunny wrote:
I live in California, between two volcanoes and near an earth quake fault.  It was my choice.  If all he&& breaks lose should I expect that the government should rush to rescue my stupid a$$ and spend tax payer dollars when I knew I was putting myself in danger.  NO!!
Governments have 3 functions and 3 only. 
1. Protect us from foreign invaders and secure the borders with a standing army and maintain a military  pretty crappy job on the borders so far, I must say.
2.  Protect us from each other. Prosecute crimes against persons and property.   This doesn't include telling us what to eat, to wear seat belts, where to smoke cigarettes, what kind of light bulbs we can use, when to spay our pets or who to marry.
3. Finance public works that are too burdensome for local groups that benefit the whole.  For example communities can't build Hoover Dam or create an interstate highway system.  BUT we can take care of our own local schools and determine if we want to allow people to fish, farm or ....ahem.. in the wilderness.
That's i!!.   Otherwise the government is intrusive into our day to day life and impedes our freedoms. 
So....back to New Orleans.   People there are living below sea level and you expect the federal government to wipe their noses when the inevitable happens; instead of holding the population and (more to the point) the local government accountable for their lack of preparedness and prevention.   Sorry.... you live on the slopes of a volcano don't be surprised when you get burned.
Yeah! Right now, we need to pull all of those federal fire fighters out of CA and let those homes burn! Arny needs to deal with the fires, not my tax dollars! Whew, talk about whining if that happened! Ha!
Those fall under item #3 for extenisive wild land fires. Projects athat are more than any single community could fund.  The local fires for houses etc are able to be funded and handled by the local volunteer fire depts (which is all we have) and small municipal controlled departments.  CDF  California Forestry Department, (which has just changed its name to Cal Fire) is othewise known locally around here as Can't Deal with Fire
Try again.

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