Imas

Apr 12, 2007 9:25 pm

[quote=csmelnix]

Now that's BS. My socioeconomic status doesn't give Jesse, or the Reverend or any other black or non white person a blank check to say anything they wish about white people because they aren't benefiting from today's economy. Maybe if those same two put that much effort into improving the family dynamics that is so absent in their own culture we might all be better off. They curse those in their own culture however that bring that up to - i.e. Bill Cosby.

I raise the BS flag w/ that statement Silouette - sorry!

[/quote]

No worries. BS might be a little strong. Capitalism, by nature, requires a social net. I'm not saying anyone is entitled, and I certainly admire Cosby's position. And I could not agree with you more about the potentially negative affects of any culture gone off track, and specifically, white and black " trash ".

You will find me to huge advocate of positive culture, and not the kind of respectful and productive behaviour that is enforced by rules and consequences - rather, positive peer leader. I'm a hypocrite, and try to recognize the need to try to help clean up around me.

Apr 12, 2007 9:28 pm

[quote=silouette] Capitalism, by nature, requires a social net. [/quote]

We have one, often to the determent of people held by it.

[quote=silouette]

You will find me to huge advocate of positive culture,.....

[/quote]

Aren't 99.9% of us?

Apr 12, 2007 9:31 pm

silouette wrote:

We may feel frustrated about a double standard, but we are also just about the only people in America right now that are benefiting from the stable and expanding economy. On the golf course, we can recharge, count our blessings, and come back ready to help move our broader society forward.

Just wtf does that mean?

Well, after I say this, Joe will likely come in and attack me for riding the white horse or wearing white gloves or something. But, in my experience, when you truly appreciate what you are blessed with, like good health and income, at some point it occurs to you that you may be in a minority ( most people in the world live in poverty, and many in fear). And then, you think, since someone here needs to stop the cycle of negativity, maybe that should be me.

Just my personal opinion, I don't think it can be either proved or defended.

Apr 12, 2007 9:32 pm

Holy crap!<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Why must there ALWAYS be a "But what about them?"

I don't make my judgment of Imus' comments based on what Sharpton says. And neither should you. Sharpton is irrelevant "rap artists" are irrelevant, so is Mick Jagger screaming You're a Far Stucker far stucker far stucker far stucker FARRR (meaning, the rap community has no patent on the degradation of women).

What Imus does is wrong! What alot of people do is wrong. This is just an adjustment of the market. This "Us V. Them" mentality that comes out each and every time something like this comes up is exactly what we claim the other side is doing without realizing that "our side" is doing the same damned thing! The irony is that it freezes the market, so that the pendulum can not swing back. We divert the issue from the issue and focus ad hominem instead.

This is ridiculously predictable! And it's juvenile! You should be ashamed of yourselves for even perpetuating the "logic!"

A lady was on Today during this who wrote a book titled something like "Why We Can't Talk About Race" . The impression I got was that someone had finally argued against the instant accusation of "Racist" any time a white person tried to talk racism. The thing is, the white community does the same thing every time a black person wants to talk about racism too. The evidence of this is in numerous posts above this one.

Free speech has ALWAYS been subject to public standards. We don't let people use the 7words on TV, we don't show pornographic movies on TV, you can't have nude pictures on the sidewalk promoting your shop (what ever the shop). What Imus did was he used barroom humor on the public airways. Hopefully this will act as a reminder to people in their general lives. Don't yell out "AW SH!T!" when you drop your ice cream cone on the sidewalk in a big crowd. That language doesn't belong there!

Yeah, there ought to be thought police, each of us ought to self police our own thoughts. That's the difference between being juvenile and being a mature adult.

Apr 12, 2007 9:34 pm

[quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=silouette] Capitalism, by nature, requires a social net. [/quote]

We have one, often to the determent of people held by it.

[quote=silouette]

You will find me to huge advocate of positive culture,.....

[/quote]

Aren't 99.9% of us?

[/quote]

Well, building the projects in the 60's might not have been the brightest idea.

I think you know, with regards to here, about the 99.9% positive question. Can you say, " elements of insidious negativity"?

Apr 12, 2007 9:41 pm

I'm asking where "Rev. (racial slur)" comes from. Maybe I missed it here. I confess to being a skim reader.

Whomit has laid all of this out pretty eloquently here. We are talking about how language and logic perpetuate even our own ignorance.

I would only add, from an economic point of view, the evolution of all of this moving forward is inevitable, painful, but hopeful.

Apr 12, 2007 9:44 pm

[quote=silouette]

silouette wrote:

We may feel frustrated about a double standard, but we are also just about the only people in America right now that are benefiting from the stable and expanding economy. On the golf course, we can recharge, count our blessings, and come back ready to help move our broader society forward.

Just wtf does that mean?

Well, after I say this, Joe will likely come in and attack me for riding the white horse or wearing white gloves or something. But, in my experience, when you truly appreciate what you are blessed with, like good health and income, at some point it occurs to you that you may be in a minority ( most people in the world live in poverty, and many in fear). And then, you think, since someone here needs to stop the cycle of negativity, maybe that should be me.

Just my personal opinion, I don't think it can be either proved or defended.

[/quote]

I recognize often how lucky I am with health and income, family, etc.. When I consider those things I’m fortunate to have and consider those who don’t, I don’t have a particular ethnic or racial group in mind. I’ve seen all sorts of people who’re unfortunate in some area or another where I’ve been blessed. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I agree with your comment about ending a cycle of negativity, but I don’t feel the need to inject white guilt to get there. Charlatans, regardless of race or ethnicity, should be identified as such. It’s a form of racism, as I see it, to coddle one variety and condemn another by using race as a mitigating factor. That’s why I think Imus should have been fired AND I think it’s the height of cowardice for the decision makers behind firing Imus to allow thugs and shakedown artists like Jackson and Sharpton to appear to have made the decision for them.

Apr 12, 2007 9:53 pm

Moving forward, the Imus incident makes everyone accountable. It raises the standard, this is how social progress in achieved. ( Even Adam Smith was in favor of that.)

No it doesn't. The only people who's feet are held to the fire are white America. I think it lowers the standard by not making all groups accountable for the same actions. Twana Brawley anyone? It also lowers the standards when one group can cry foul and demand others bend to their whims while yet another group is shushed up for doing exactly the same things.

Imus is judged solely in the context of his sponsors, career reputation, specific attack on college women and so on. And the market judges harshly.

Well, that would be true if the market had actually judged. Instead it was a rush of political activists complaining and forcing sponsors to remove themselves from his program. Who wants to be the last company to wait and see if this latest tempest calmed down? Personally I don't give a rip about Imus. I think he is a boor and probably does deserve to be fired, but it shouldn't be because the victim merchants are using extortion and strong arming the network.

We may feel frustrated about a double standard, but we are also just about the only people in America right now that are benefiting from the stable and expanding economy.

Oh baloney. There are a lot of people benefiting from our economic expansion. We are having an economic expansion in spite of some people. You bet I'm frustrated by the double standard. I'm sick of the political correctness that has turned a whole generation of people into mindless spineless twits. You can't make a joke at work that might offend some ones sensitive gender, ethnicity or dog. People have no sense of humor anymore.

On the golf course, we can recharge, count our blessings, and come back ready to help move our broader society forward.

I don't care about moving our broader society forward. You seem to think that this latest fiasco is a step forward. Again. I see it as a step somewhere, but not forward.

On the golf course, on a day like today, I imagine the ball is the back of someone's head and then smack the he## out of it. That recharges me.

Apr 12, 2007 9:57 pm

[quote=silouette]

I'm asking where "Rev. (racial slur)" comes from. Maybe I missed it here. I confess to being a skim reader. [/quote]

It comes from <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Jackson's own comments. You know, it isn't just that he used the term towards individuals and added "town" to the end of it when he referred to NYC, it was the way his first response was to attack the black reporter for "spilling the beans", as if he was obligated, since they were both black, to some loyalty about closeted racism.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Let me be clear about this, because there seems to be some misunderstanding. I don’t think Imus should have been able to keep his job because of Sharpton and Jackson’s personal past. Imus’ comments SHOULD have cost him his job. Their presence in this uproar didn’t amount to mitigation of Imus’ conduct.

OTOH, Jackson and Sharptons personal pasts SHOULD have disqualified them from leading the assault on Imus. People weighing the issues around Imus’ comments SHOULD have been able to swat those two away as the irrelevant mosquitoes that they are. In fact, long ago those two should have been swatted away by serious people. The same swatting should be directed at politicians who look for a microphone to go after Imus AFTER it’s obvious he’s lost his job and public sentiment is against him (but not a moment before) and who will be sucking up to some rap star tomorrow, ignoring the massive waves of misogyny coming from that corner.

Apr 12, 2007 10:15 pm

We agree. You know, Jackson and Sharpton have been around for a long time, I think most of us see them for what they are - to the extent that perhaps these fellows have impeded all of us.

And now these old warhorses, along with the radical left, are having their time in the sun.

It's just another form of good old boy crap. Frankly, I see some of that here from time to time. It gets disguised as "tough love". It may be fun for the " club ", but it really doesn't raise the consciousness of the forum. So then it becomes a game of defining the rules, defining the " culture ".

Now Joe is going to say, " you always turn the discussion to this point". You know what, Joe, too bad.

But what I see is the next generation getting hurt sometimes. Whoomit has really nailed, and what he is saying is, if I got it right,
" it all starts right here, with our own thoughts, and language."

A generation ago, they were saying, feelings like anger need to be brought out and dealt with. Now they are saying, anger is not really a useful emotion, and you might consider just shutting it off in your brain when it starts. And there are plenty of other crappy emotions that can be shut off, like building yourself up while putting others down, albeit joking.

If there is anything true about what Whomit says above, all of this stuff is tied up. We don't have to wait to evolve.

Just my moralistic, white horse, preachy point of view. Please forget it about it.

Apr 12, 2007 10:19 pm

SHARPTON VOWS MORE: 'It is our feeling that this is only the beginning. We must have a broad discussion on what is permitted and not permitted in terms of the airwaves'...

And so it begins. The thought police are going to tell us what we can say, how we can think and it better not be offensive to the new self appointed arbiters of society.

It is evidently OK to offend Christians with the Piss Christ and Dung Mary. God forbid we have a cartoon of Muhammed. It is ok to refuse to let students celebrate Christmas on campus but we will install foot baths for Muslims to wash their feet before praying on campus. Now we are sending students to conferences to learn about white privilege and just how bad white people are. http://www.cwsworkshop.org/resources/WhitePrivilege.html

How about instead we teach the kids how to read, write, history, science and do math?

To further illustrate the hypocrisy and double standard, you will find that Imus is now being listed as a conservative. Puuleeeze. He endorsed Kerry and hates the Bush administration. Imus is a bleeding heart liberal who happens to be a foul mouthed jerk and redneck.. Of course we must label him as a conservative, because he doesn't fit the approved politically correct mold for the liberal agenda's idea of a Democrat.

Apr 12, 2007 10:22 pm

[quote=babbling looney]