Hartford VA

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BankFC's picture
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Ok, I have to do this.  I was going to let this little thing Mike the Butler started to stay between me and him...but he is to stupid to admit when he is wrong.
Mike says the Hartford VA does not have a lifetime income rider that does not require annuitization. 
It definitely does, and it is called the Lifetime Income Builder.  I welcome ANYONE to look it up.  It is 5% with annual review to step it up, never goes down, and is FOR LIFE, not just return of principle.
Sometimes people just don't know how to say they are wrong.  Mike is one of those people.

BankFC's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-27

Mikey...

troll's picture
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BankFC wrote:
Ok, I have to do this.  I was going to let this little thing Mike the Butler started to stay between me and him...but he is to stupid to admit when he is wrong.
Mike says the Hartford VA does not have a lifetime income rider that does not require annuitization. 
It definitely does, and it is called the Lifetime Income Builder.  I welcome ANYONE to look it up.  It is 5% with annual review to step it up, never goes down, and is FOR LIFE, not just return of principle.
Sometimes people just don't know how to say they are wrong.  Mike is one of those people.

I already detailed how the Lifetime Income Builder works. I quoted the prospectus to you. Read it again and pay attention to the SECOND phase of payments. BTW, the FIRST phase is treated as a surrender and is deducted from the contract value.

BankFC's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-27

Little Mikey...
In your Primerica office today or working from home again?

troll's picture
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BankFC wrote:
Little Mikey...
In your Primerica office today or working from home again?

No, today I'm driving a Transit bus in  NYC, but I have my crackberry handy  

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

In case anyone following this boring thread is still hanging around;
The Hartford's Lifetime Income BuilderProvides a single Benefit Amount payable as two separate but bundled benefits which form the entire benefit. In other words, it is a guarantee of the Benefit Amount that can be accessed two ways: a Withdrawal Benefit that offers both Benefit Payments and Lifetime Benefit Payments and a Guaranteed Minimum Death Benefit. Depleting the Benefit Amount by taking Withdrawal Benefits or Surrenders will reduce or eliminate the Guaranteed Minimum Death Benefit.
https://online.hartfordlife.com/acb_help/hol_helpgloss.htm

dude's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-15

Proof of how sh*tty these VA's are:
I received a hypothetical from Hartford today (Hartford Leaders product) showing the performance since 11/30/96 of their VA using the Franklin Founding Funds Strategy (for those not in the know, it's a 3 fund blend: Mutual Shares Franklin Growth and Franklin Income fundt; that is roughly allocated like a balanced fund, except with a heavy weight in high yield).
Anyway the illustration ONLY included the M&E and admin expenses, not the Optional .50 bps guarantee.
Here's the results, confirming every thing I detailed in the earlier debate:
Starting value: $125,000
VA ending value: $219,572
Annual compunding return of 6.27%
Hypothetical of JUST the funds (A shares)
Starting Value:$125,000
Ending Value: $271,287
Annual compounding return: 8.64%
The VA ate up 2.37% in returns a year w/o the guarantee, imagine how much worse it would have been with an extra .50bps tacked on!!!
Keep in mind that this 9 year period (I asked Hartford for a 10 year hypo, I guess they're not very smart over there) also includes one of those "disasterous" markets that the guarantee is designed for. (will 2nd worst bear market in history work for you?)
Verdict:  Not needed.  Better off with bonds, especially with the guarantee dragging on performance.
Also, It's my understanding that Hartford is among the less expensive VA's, I could be wrong since I'm not too excited about these products.
pwn3ed, it's all I can say.

Mike Damone's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

Dude, it's Templeton Growth, not Franklin Growth that makes us 1/3 of the Franklin Founding Funds strategy.

BankFC's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-27

What you guys that hate VA's don't understand, and nver will obviously, is that a lot of clients don't care about that 2.37 percent they missed out on because they would rather make less and FEEL safe than make more and feel unsafe. 
Better off in bonds than a VA?  News Flash...the yield curve is flat.  anything you sell today is going to be worth less as interest rates continue to rise.
By getting bond-like safety (guarantees) and a diversified portfoilio return (minus expenses of guarantees), you can get income guarantees PLUS not as much risk by being diversified.

dude's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-15

BankFC said:
Better off in bonds than a VA?  News Flash...the yield curve is flat.  anything you sell today is going to be worth less as interest rates continue to rise.
Reply:
Perhaps you're as good as the Economists at predicting interest rates, who get it right maybe 30% of the time. 
Bank FC said:
By getting bond-like safety (guarantees) and a diversified portfoilio return (minus expenses of guarantees), you can get income guarantees PLUS not as much risk by being diversified.
Reply:
VA's not as risky as bonds?  You're smokin' some good stuff.  Liquidity risk, credit risk of the VA issuer.  Sounds like a bond to me except with better pay .  Actually, now that I think about it maybe I'll start selling VA's as the bond portion of my asset allocation, yeah..... I've been looking for a way to juice my production while doing the client a favor.  Balanced portfolio now equals 60% stocks 40% VA w/100%equities and a full no hastles money back guarantee!!!
Thanks for convincing me of my wayward ways.  I'm on board guys!

BankFC's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-27

Who sells a VA with 100% equities...???

Mike Damone's picture
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BankFC wrote:Who sells a VA with 100% equities...???
I do for some clients depending on their risk tolerance, time horizon, goals, etc.  As for my own VA contract I'm 100% equities.

dude's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-15

why wouldn't you?  It's guaranteed, right?

BankFC's picture
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I agree if it is your risk tolerance.
Dude was trying to compare apples (a moderate/conservative portfolio) to a VA with all equities (an aggressive portfolio) for a near retiree.
When guys on here can't make a valid argument, they resort to making things up...
 

Mike Damone's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

dude wrote:
why wouldn't you?  It's guaranteed, right?

Funny.  Actually, I could careless about the 5% GMIB rider (the guarantee) which I will never use.  Personally, I don't believe any of these gaurantees will actually be used but they do give the client a little extra confidence which in turn allows me to increase their equity exposure.

BankFC's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-27

dude wrote:
why wouldn't you?  It's guaranteed, right?

The income is guaranteed.  That is right. 
Why don't you put all your clients in equities???  Over time, they'll get more return, right???
See how stupid you sound?
 
By the way, I LOVE how some guys on here keep bringing up how it is such a possibility that AAA insurance companies could default...but that it is SO FARFETCHED to imagine a "balanced portfolio" ever going down 20% or more...
LOL

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

BankFC wrote:
By the way, I LOVE how some guys on here keep bringing up how it is such a possibility that AAA insurance companies could default
Correcting you is just about a full time job, FC. The Hartford isn't a AAA insurance company. It's a A+/AA-/Aa3 insurnace company, depending on who you ask. Those are fine ratings, but if you're selling your butt off push a "guarantee", you'd better be sure the thing BEHIND the guarantee is stable. That rating is no less important than the rating s of bonbs you might be selling as "secure".
Have you found that balance, diversified, long term portfolio that took the 30% loss yet? We're all still waiting... 
Oh, one more thing. Which should I buy, the Hartford annuity with the promise of a 5% payout or the 7 year Hartford bond with the 5.25% payout? 
 

dude's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-15

Mike said:
Oh, one more thing. Which should I buy, the Hartford annuity with the promise of a 5% payout or the 7 year Hartford bond with the 5.25% payout? 
Reply:
Way to put this into perspective Mike. 

dude's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-15

Bank FC said:
Dude was trying to compare apples (a moderate/conservative portfolio) to a VA with all equities (an aggressive portfolio) for a near retiree.
Reply:
I was not.  I was making a joke.  I was observing that a VA w/ guarantee is kinda like a bond as far as risk/reward, so why not sell the VA(w/ all equities and guarantee) as the bond portion of a clients portfolio and make some SERIOUS COIN BABY!!!!  AAAHH YEAH!!

Greenhills's picture
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Joined: 2005-07-26

I love watching midgets fight 

maybeeeeeeee's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-24

dude wrote:
Proof of how sh*tty these VA's are:
I received a hypothetical from Hartford today (Hartford Leaders product) showing the performance since 11/30/96 of their VA using the Franklin Founding Funds Strategy (for those not in the know, it's a 3 fund blend: Mutual Shares Franklin Growth and Franklin Income fundt; that is roughly allocated like a balanced fund, except with a heavy weight in high yield).
Anyway the illustration ONLY included the M&E and admin expenses, not the Optional .50 bps guarantee.
Here's the results, confirming every thing I detailed in the earlier debate:
Starting value: $125,000
VA ending value: $219,572
Annual compunding return of 6.27%
Hypothetical of JUST the funds (A shares)
Starting Value:$125,000
Ending Value: $271,287
Annual compounding return: 8.64%
The VA ate up 2.37% in returns a year w/o the guarantee, imagine how much worse it would have been with an extra .50bps tacked on!!!
Keep in mind that this 9 year period (I asked Hartford for a 10 year hypo, I guess they're not very smart over there) also includes one of those "disasterous" markets that the guarantee is designed for. (will 2nd worst bear market in history work for you?)
Verdict:  Not needed.  Better off with bonds, especially with the guarantee dragging on performance.
Also, It's my understanding that Hartford is among the less expensive VA's, I could be wrong since I'm not too excited about these products.
pwn3ed, it's all I can say.

I am loving the Franklin Founding funds too.  You are the only other person here who has talked about it.  What are your thoughts.

BankFC's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-27

Mike, you're such a douche bag I don't even know where to start.
In fact, I'm not going to...I just finished my 2006 business plan, and posting throughout the day on RR just doesn't fit in.
I intend on doing 500K this coming year (c'mon Mike, lets here how 500K is small potatoes, blah blah blah), and spending any amount of time with pikers like Mike the Butler (who works at Primerica) and Dude won't get me there.
 
 

dude's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-15

maybeeeeeeeeeee,
It's a simple story, quality package with a long history.  Franklin is a great company.  Expense ratio is good for a fund of funds product.

dude's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-15

Amen BankFC.  I agree completely. I hope you hit your goals, we can agree to disagree on the technicalities of product, but let's agree that at the end of the day we all should support each other in being successful.  We all should spend less time here and more time doing business.

BankFC's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-27

Agreed.
Merry Christmas

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

dude wrote:Amen BankFC.  I agree completely. I hope you hit your goals, we can agree to disagree on the technicalities of product, but let's agree that at the end of the day we all should support each other in being successful.  We all should spend less time here and more time doing business.
 
I agreed. Merry Christmas to both of you, in fact, to all of us. 

dude's picture
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Joined: 2005-11-15

SonnyClips:
I choose the FFALX one ticket drop because of simplicity.  Franklin will take care of rebalancing and I suspect they are as good as I would be in this regard so why not let them do it?  One thing I'm learning is that keeping it simple is important.  Your question is valid though.  In my opinion there is not much difference, so why not keep it simple?
As far as the other funds, they are definitely in the rock star category.  I just like the simple "balanced" fund approach for a good portion of my clients in a convenient package with the nice marketing brochure which makes selling it easy.
It's hard as hell getting appointments right now.  My cold calling is on ICE lately.
I also thought the Hartford bond comments showed insight. 

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Greenhills wrote:I love watching midgets fight 
roflmfao!

troll's picture
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joedabrkr wrote:
Greenhills wrote:I love watching midgets fight 
roflmfao!

If nothing else, we are entertaining

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