Fair? My prospect split with sr.rep to manage

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OrDieTrying's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-06

I brought in a prospect with a decent NW, not pikers, was going to have another broker help out with managing, since my time is spent prospecting more than actively managing.  He has a good track record with performance, and if the performance on the first small portion is good for a bit, they will bring the rest over.He wants to split 50-50.  Is that fair?

dedub01's picture
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Joined: 2006-02-10

We do 40% to the asset manager, 60% to the asset gatherer. the latter is simply more important.

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

I was thinking 60/40 would be more "fair" - but at the same time, the "fair" split is whatever you're both willing to accept.  If he demands 50%, or "the deal is off" and you really don't want to, or can't, manage the account - 50% is fair. 
 
If you aren't willing to do 50%, then tell him 40% is your limit - take it or leave it. 
 
Not sure why you'd EVER give away any of your production to another FA to "manage" - toss some ideas around on this site.  Talk to someone on here, or in real life, that you trust.  Defer the management to a third party manager through your firm if you have to - they'll probably do a better job, and charge you less. 
 
 

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

ICE, actually, a lot of teams are structured this way.  The "prospector" doesn't really have day-to-day involvement in the managing of the assets.  Even if you would jsut defer management to 3rd party managers, you still have to sit with clients, determine their needs, risk, etc., monitor performance, keep in touch with clients, etc.  The prospector is just out prospecting and bringing in new clients 100% of the time.

HAAIC's picture
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OrDieTrying wrote:I brought in a prospect with a decent NW, not pikers, was going to have another broker help out with managing, since my time is spent prospecting more than actively managing.  He has a good track record with performance, and if the performance on the first small portion is good for a bit, they will bring the rest over.He wants to split 50-50.  Is that fair?
Is this a fancy way of saying that you are a cold caller and that you want to know if you're getting screwed? 50/50 is more than fair. Get back on the phone and do it again.

BondGuy's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-21

A traditional hunter/skinner relationship! I like it!
 
As the hunter you are in control. And you are the more valuable part of the team with the harder task. Finding the money and getting the money in house is the hardest part of our business. Think not? The only thing seperating most of the people on this board from higher production is a lack of more money to manage. Why is that?
 
No one ever flucked out of this business because they couldn't manage the money.
 
At a 50/50 split you are giving up the leverage you gain by not having to manage the money yourself.

Mishigun's picture
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Joined: 2009-04-16

When  I started, I set up a 50/50 split with a few senior advisors for a few reasons.
 
1. Learn how other people work, learn what they know, how they talk to clients ( still "your" client, you sit in all the meeting and talk to them).
 
2. Don't blow the case.
 
3. Make money. Get the fish in the boat.
 
 
Years later, even personalities and office locations changed. I had a chance to take back my half, but always honored my commitment to a split.
 
Honor the split, through thick and thin, probably taught me the most. Learning how to talk to clients, hearing the voice of experience, early on in my career, is what still puts food on my table (beans tonight).

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

B24 wrote:ICE, actually, a lot of teams are structured this way.  The "prospector" doesn't really have day-to-day involvement in the managing of the assets.  Even if you would jsut defer management to 3rd party managers, you still have to sit with clients, determine their needs, risk, etc., monitor performance, keep in touch with clients, etc.  The prospector is just out prospecting and bringing in new clients 100% of the time.
 
He never mentioned being on a team.  He mentioned bringing on a Sr. guy to help manage this particular case.
 
Like BondGuy said - the prospecting is the hardest part of the job, nobody flunks out for not being able to put together a half assed OK portfolio.  The guy who brings in the money is in the driver's seat, technically.
 
 

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

Yeah, I may have misread the post. 
 
Looking back, I read it as "I'm new and handle mostly small accounts.  I managed to land a Big Tuna and I'm afraid of f'ing it up, so I want a better money manager to help me manage the account."
 
But maybe I'm wrong again....

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

Your version is a lot more entertaining to read! 

Gaddock's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

I don't know ... 50% and all he does is ...???????? You've done 99% of the job by getting them to this point.
 
80 / 20 would be more like it.

OrDieTrying's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-06

I am a new FA, just a few months of production, and a meager book just over a mil, and these people could be a good sized acct. I'm not a Cold caller, had no luck with that yet, but I'm always out talking to people, and these folks were a referral.I too think that getting them in is most of the battle, and they flat out want to do business with me.   I am not formally on a team, though it would be nice.  Right now I do indeed need the assets and gross.In my mind was a 75/25 split.  seemed fair to me.  I may try to re-angle it as 'watch over me' (no, I don't want to screw up, and I will be honest, at least with myself, that I am learning... also this is a different sort of account than I have done to this point)

today1's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-07

why dont you have a wholesaler, your branch manager, or any other internal partner (ie. sales manager, product specialists) help you to close it so you wouldnt have to split anything.  when i was a rookie i used my branch manager a couple of time to help me close larger accounts and work with me on how to manage the money.  if this person is a referral they are doing business with you because someone they trusted referred you to them.  they are not doing business with you because of performance.  i would look to other resources that are free before giving up 50% of the revenue on a big fish.  i think the issue is your confidence level with dealing with bigger fish since it is new to you.  there are other avenues to take, and resources available, that would help to boost your confidence in meeting and you can defer more complex questions to.

OS's picture
OS
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Joined: 2008-11-03

Doesn't your firm have some sort of PM program with auto-reallocation where you can do the allocation and let professional managers do the rest? Then all you have to do is call every few months and meet once or twice a year.

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

today1 wrote:why dont you have a wholesaler, your branch manager, or any other internal partner (ie. sales manager, product specialists) help you to close it so you wouldnt have to split anything.  when i was a rookie i used my branch manager a couple of time to help me close larger accounts and work with me on how to manage the money.  if this person is a referral they are doing business with you because someone they trusted referred you to them.  they are not doing business with you because of performance.  i would look to other resources that are free before giving up 50% of the revenue on a big fish.  i think the issue is your confidence level with dealing with bigger fish since it is new to you.  there are other avenues to take, and resources available, that would help to boost your confidence in meeting and you can defer more complex questions to.
 
I like this advice...

OrDieTrying's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-06

The problem isn't closing them.  They were up to do business after the first meeting, I was just short on time.  The second was to go over stuff and finish the first meeting really.  Super nice people, and easy to talk to.My problem was making sure I was doing the best thing.  I'm not wild about our managed money platform that is firm run, I am find with managing myself, but there are a lot of details I don't know, and I really wanted another set of eyes... plus I question if I have enough time with prospecting and the mountains of paperwork (no assistant yet) to do a genuinely good job for them.  I really want to do my very best for my clients.The other guy came in and kinda bulldozed everyone, had a question on realestate (he's very knowledgeable in that area), but then he kinda launched into his pitch... the same product I had talked about... but I kinda wanted both of us to do the management...

Morphius's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-21

If the main question in your mind after what you describe is what percentage split might be appropriate, I'm afraid you've missed the forest for the trees.
OrDieTrying wrote: The problem isn't closing them.  They were up to do business after the first meeting, I was just short on time.  The second was to go over stuff and finish the first meeting really.  Super nice people, and easy to talk to.
They were ready to do business, but you were "short on time?"   What in the world could be more important than closing them? If they were ready to do business but had to leave because the meeting ran so long then you're just getting in your own way, probably because you've mistakenly decided that you have to follow some preset agenda or series of steps/meetings.

Remember the purpose of all those steps is simply to figure out what they need and convince them that you are the one to help them. Sometimes they come into the meeting convinced and all you need to do is close them, and finish your fact-finding later. If so, great - shut up and get ink on paper! Once they are ready, forget the rest for the time being and close them. If you don't learn to do that quickly, the rest of it won't matter at all.

OrDieTrying wrote:My problem was making sure I was doing the best thing. 
Which isn't surprising given your lack of experience. That is precisely why virtually every b/d offers a range of turnkey managed product choices. Use those resources. You're paying for them already.
OrDieTrying wrote: I'm not wild about our managed money platform that is firm run, I am find with managing myself, but there are a lot of details I don't know, and I really wanted another set of eyes...
Stop kidding yourself. If you were truly fine with managing it yourself, you would have closed them and be managing that money now instead of posting here about how much you should give to someone else to manage it for you.

Stop tilting at windmills and use the resources you firm offers. You may not be "wild about" the managed money platform, but with your combination of inexperience and lack of confidence it is your best option. More importantly, it is your client's best option.
OrDieTrying wrote: plus I question if I have enough time with prospecting and the mountains of paperwork (no assistant yet) to do a genuinely good job for them.  I really want to do my very best for my clients.
More rationalization and self delusion. All you HAVE is time right now! Maybe once you have built a decent book you'll be pressed for time, but that is not your problem now. Your problem now is you aren't sure what to recommend.

If you doubt your ability to handle these clients, even while relying on the internal resources and expertise of your b/d, that's your real issue, because this is holding you back from acting, and not just on this prospect - it will happen again and again and again. You MUST confront this issue once and for all: either you believe you can help people, or you don't believe you can. If you don't believe you can help people, save yourself some time and agony and get into another line of work, because an advisor who can't advise is an not an advisor.

OrDieTrying wrote:The other guy came in and kinda bulldozed everyone, had a question on realestate (he's very knowledgeable in that area), but then he kinda launched into his pitch... the same product I had talked about... but I kinda wanted both of us to do the management...

Now your real problem compounds unnecessarily and perhaps, for you in this instance, fatally.

I assume you invited the other guy in, as I can't imagine how else he got in the room. You may have "kinda wanted" both of you to "do the management" but what you've really done is create a new layer of problems and complications while further reducing the chances that these prospects will see you as the person to help them. And if you did this without knowing ahead of time exactly what he would say or pitch, and what your split would be, you really messed up. Now you have someone else seen as the REAL advisor in your prospects' eyes, little control over what strategy to use AND the loss of a significant portion of the revenues that may eventually come if the prospect is converted to a client.

Now ask yourself honestly: exactly how was this option better than the managed product platform that your b/d offers?

I'm sorry to be so blunt with you, but if you are to have any hope of saving these prospects and turning them into your clients - or indeed any future prospects like this - you need a quick wake up call, and you need to decide and act quickly and decisively.

Even if it is too late for these prospects, what about the next ones like these? Figure out your strategy for helping future prospects like this using all your internal resources and expertise NOW, not after you find them.

Good luck. We were all where you are once upon a time, so don't get defensive or beat yourself up - just WAKE yourself up, get after it, and all will be fine.

BondGuy's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-21

Morph- good post!

OrDieTrying's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-06

Morphius wrote:If the main question in your mind after what you describe is what percentage split might be appropriate, I'm afraid you've missed the forest for the trees.
They were ready to do business, but you were "short on time?"   What in the world could be more important than closing them? If they were ready to do business but had to leave because the meeting ran so long then you're just getting in your own way, probably because you've mistakenly decided that you have to follow some preset agenda or series of steps/meetings.
First meeting was getting to know them, it was a referral, and I was told they were shopping for an advisor, so I didn't push it at all, and they had a real estate question.  We talked, they weren't totally in at that point, and I had a Dr's appt for meds that I was running out of.  Yes, I could have done that better.
Morphius wrote:Remember the purpose of all those steps is simply to figure out what they need and convince them that you are the one to help them. Sometimes they come into the meeting convinced and all you need to do is close them, and finish your fact-finding later. If so, great - shut up and get ink on paper! Once they are ready, forget the rest for the time being and close them. If you don't learn to do that quickly, the rest of it won't matter at all.

First meeting I didn't have forms with me, yup, learned from that too.  Second was just a friggen abortion of a meeting.. but I'll talk more about that later.Morphius wrote:Which isn't surprising given your lack of experience. That is precisely why virtually every b/d offers a range of turnkey managed product choices. Use those resources. You're paying for them already.
Stop kidding yourself. If you were truly fine with managing it yourself, you would have closed them and be managing that money now instead of posting here about how much you should give to someone else to manage it for you.
True. and True.
Morphius wrote:Stop tilting at windmills and use the resources you firm offers. You may not be "wild about" the managed money platform, but with your combination of inexperience and lack of confidence it is your best option. More importantly, it is your client's best option.

yes, and no. We have 2 guys that suck at prospecting, that are awesome at managing, and have long track records of doing well.Morphius wrote:More rationalization and self delusion. All you HAVE is time right now! Maybe once you have built a decent book you'll be pressed for time, but that is not your problem now. Your problem now is you aren't sure what to recommend.

I know what to recomend, I wanted help on that though, another set of eyes, an experienced set... if not I would not have brough the other fa in at all. Morphius wrote:If you doubt your ability to handle these clients, even while relying on the internal resources and expertise of your b/d, that's your real issue, because this is holding you back from acting, and not just on this prospect - it will happen again and again and again. You MUST confront this issue once and for all: either you believe you can help people, or you don't believe you can. poetically well put.  You're right. That line there has opened my eyes, and I didn't mess around with another client today, and acted certainly, and I entirely stand by the advice I gave.morphius wrote:If you don't believe you can help people, save yourself some time and agony and get into another line of work, because an advisor who can't advise is an not an advisor.

sounds like tough love :) you're right on this, but I am facing the issue, not solved, but coming alongmorphius wrote:Now your real problem compounds unnecessarily and perhaps, for you in this instance, fatally.

I assume you invited the other guy in, as I can't imagine how else he got in the room. You may have "kinda wanted" both of you to "do the management" but what you've really done is create a new layer of problems and complications while further reducing the chances that these prospects will see you as the person to help them. And if you did this without knowing ahead of time exactly what he would say or pitch, and what your split would be, you really messed up. Now you have someone else seen as the REAL advisor in your prospects' eyes, little control over what strategy to use AND the loss of a significant portion of the revenues that may eventually come if the prospect is converted to a client.

Now ask yourself honestly: exactly how was this option better than the managed product platform that your b/d offers?

I'm sorry to be so blunt with you, but if you are to have any hope of saving these prospects and turning them into your clients - or indeed any future prospects like this - you need a quick wake up call, and you need to decide and act quickly and decisively.

Even if it is too late for these prospects, what about the next ones like these? Figure out your strategy for helping future prospects like this using all your internal resources and expertise NOW, not after you find them.

Good luck. We were all where you are once upon a time, so don't get defensive or beat yourself up - just WAKE yourself up, get after it, and all will be fine.
Again, you're right.  I totally screwed the pooch.  I firmly believe I had communicated to the other advisor, lesson learned.This is salvageable, I'll see what I can do, we have another appt scheduled this week. I'll keep you guys posted.  Good or bad I learned, and I have a much better idea of how to deal with this stuff in the future.This is a humbling business, and I have a lot to learn, that's why I'm asking, that's why I appreciate the input, even...no, especially the 'tough' input.Thank you.

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