[quote=bankrep1]30 companies. Not really if a compnay starts to look bad they will replace it. Think about all of the moves they have made in the past.[/quote]

So you're saying that the Dow Industrials is a manipulated stock index and cannot be relied to as an indicator of anything?

Who do you suppose is manipulating it?

Tell us again, how many hours has it been since you entered the business?

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

[quote=bankrep1]30 companies. Not really if a compnay starts to look bad they will replace it. Think about all of the moves they have made in the past.[/quote]

So you're saying that the Dow Industrials is a manipulated stock index and cannot be relied to as an indicator of anything?[/quote]

Don't tell me Putsy thinks the Dow 30 has been the same stocks since inception....

Putsy looks like you need an edamacation:



According to Dow Jones, the industrial average started out with 12 stocks in 1896. For all of you trivia buffs out there, those original stocks and their fates are as follows: American Cotton Oil (traces remain in CPC International), American Sugar (eventually became Amstar Holdings), American Tobacco (killed by antitrust action in 1911), Chicago Gas (absorbed by Peoples Gas), Distilling and Cattle Feeding (evolved into Quantum Chemical), General Electric (the only survivor), Laclede Gas (now Laclede Group but not in the index), National Lead (now NL Industries but not in the index), North American (group of utilities broken up in 1940s), Tennesee Coal and Iron (gobbled up by U.S. Steel), U.S. Leather preferred (vanished around 1952), and U.S. Rubber (became Uniroyal, in turn bought by Michelin). The number of stocks was increased to 20 in 1916. The 30-stock average made its debut in 1928, and the number has remained constant ever since.



Here are some of the recent changes.



On 17 March 1997, Hewlett-Packard, Johnson & Johnson, Travelers Group, and Wal-Mart joined the average, replacing Bethlehem Steel, Texaco, Westinghouse Electric and Woolworth.

In 1998, Travelers Group merged with CitiBank, and the new entity, CitiGroup, replaced the Travelers Group.

On 1 November 1999, Home Depot, Intel, Microsoft, and SBC Communications joined the average, replacing Union Carbide, Goodyear Tire & Rubber, Sears, and Chevron.

Between 1999 and 2004, several stocks in the index merged and/or changed names: Exxon became Exxon-Mobil after their merger; Allied-Signal merged with Honeywell and kept the Honeywell name; JP Morgan became JP Morgan Chase after their merger; Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing offically became 3M Corp; and Philip Morris renamed itself Altria.

On 8 April 2004, American International Group, Pfizer, and Verizon joined the average, replacing AT&T, Eastman Kodak, and International Paper.

Does this look manipulated to you? Or could it just be a broad measure of our economy going forward. To say 6000 is to say, no area of our economy will be making money more so than today. I don’t buy it.

[quote=bankrep1]Does this look manipulated to you? Or could it just be a broad measure of our economy going forward. To say 6000 is to say, no area of our economy will be making money more so than today. I don't buy it.[/quote]

The Dow has been cut in half several times.  I watched it drop from +/- 1,000 to about 575 in the 1970s--in the previous decades the declines were even greater.

It is nonsense to believe that it is not possible for earnings to decline.

Tell us again, how many minutes have you been in the business?

Just a few and I have managed to acquire more knowledge than you’ll ever have. First no one should invest in the DJIA with their portfolio so who really cares, my point is if the index is falling consistently for reasons more than the fear of a bear market they will address the issue. Don’t you think things are a little more proactive today than in the past?



That is like saying don’t put your money in a bank because I was around for the depression. or stocks are a bad investment because one day in 1987 people lost alot of money.

[quote=bankrep1]Just a few and I have managed to acquire more knowledge than you'll ever have. First no one should invest in the DJIA with their portfolio so who really cares, my point is if the index is falling consistently for reasons more than the fear of a bear market they will address the issue. Don't you think things are a little more proactive today than in the past?

That is like saying don't put your money in a bank because I was around for the depression. or stocks are a bad investment because one day in 1987 people lost alot of money.[/quote]

What do you mean when you use the word "proactive?"  Are you suggesting that decision makers will simply replace underperforming stocks with others simply because they are underperforming?

When Kodak was dropped from the Dow did that mean that people who were invested in Kodak lost even more, or did they lose less--why do you suppose Kodak was dropped at all?

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

[quote=bankrep1]30 companies. Not really if a compnay starts to look bad they will replace it. Think about all of the moves they have made in the past.[/quote]

So you're saying that the Dow Industrials is a manipulated stock index and cannot be relied to as an indicator of anything?

Who do you suppose is manipulating it?

Tell us again, how many hours has it been since you entered the business?

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

It is nonsense to believe that it is not possible for earnings to decline.

[/quote]

No one's ever said it wasn't possible, but don't let that stop you, old timer.

On 17 March 1997, Hewlett-Packard, Johnson & Johnson, Travelers Group, and Wal-Mart joined the average, replacing Bethlehem Steel, Texaco, Westinghouse Electric and Woolworth.

In 1998, Travelers Group merged with CitiBank, and the new entity, CitiGroup, replaced the Travelers Group.

On 1 November 1999, Home Depot, Intel, Microsoft, and SBC Communications joined the average, replacing Union Carbide, Goodyear Tire & Rubber, Sears, and Chevron.

Between 1999 and 2004, several stocks in the index merged and/or changed names: Exxon became Exxon-Mobil after their merger; Allied-Signal merged with Honeywell and kept the Honeywell name; JP Morgan became JP Morgan Chase after their merger; Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing offically became 3M Corp; and Philip Morris renamed itself Altria.

On 8 April 2004, American International Group, Pfizer, and Verizon joined the average, replacing AT&T, Eastman Kodak, and International Paper.



This really opens one’s eye’s. ‘’’’???

[quote=bankrep1]

According to Dow Jones, the industrial average started out with 12 stocks in 1896. For all of you trivia buffs out there, those original stocks and their fates are as follows: American Cotton Oil (traces remain in CPC International), American Sugar (eventually became Amstar Holdings), American Tobacco (killed by antitrust action in 1911), Chicago Gas (absorbed by Peoples Gas), Distilling and Cattle Feeding (evolved into Quantum Chemical), General Electric (the only survivor), Laclede Gas (now Laclede Group but not in the index), National Lead (now NL Industries but not in the index), North American (group of utilities broken up in 1940s), Tennesee Coal and Iron (gobbled up by U.S. Steel), U.S. Leather preferred (vanished around 1952), and U.S. Rubber (became Uniroyal, in turn bought by Michelin). The number of stocks was increased to 20 in 1916. The 30-stock average made its debut in 1928, and the number has remained constant ever since.

Here are some of the recent changes.

On 17 March 1997, Hewlett-Packard, Johnson & Johnson, Travelers Group, and Wal-Mart joined the average, replacing Bethlehem Steel, Texaco, Westinghouse Electric and Woolworth.
In 1998, Travelers Group merged with CitiBank, and the new entity, CitiGroup, replaced the Travelers Group.
On 1 November 1999, Home Depot, Intel, Microsoft, and SBC Communications joined the average, replacing Union Carbide, Goodyear Tire & Rubber, Sears, and Chevron.
Between 1999 and 2004, several stocks in the index merged and/or changed names: Exxon became Exxon-Mobil after their merger; Allied-Signal merged with Honeywell and kept the Honeywell name; JP Morgan became JP Morgan Chase after their merger; Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing offically became 3M Corp; and Philip Morris renamed itself Altria.
On 8 April 2004, American International Group, Pfizer, and Verizon joined the average, replacing AT&T, Eastman Kodak, and International Paper. [/quote]

It's really wild to see it all listed out like that.  Sometimes I forget just how often it does change.  Thanks Bank.

I think what I mean by proactive is that in todays world we don’t wait and see what happens. Sometimes this is good and sometimes it is bad. There is no argument that the index changes have occurred more frequently in the last 10 years than the prior ten and the ten before that and the ten before that. This is a trend you will continue to see as the Dow marches on upward.



Kodak shareholders didn’t need any help losing money, they were a victim of technological change and the company failed to respond to those changes fast enough. It was no longer a top business and replaced with something with a rosier future.

[quote=bankrep1]I think what I mean by proactive is that in todays world we don't wait and see what happens. Sometimes this is good and sometimes it is bad. There is no argument that the index changes have occurred more frequently in the last 10 years than the prior ten and the ten before that and the ten before that. This is a trend you will continue to see as the Dow marches on upward.

Kodak shareholders didn't need any help losing money, they were a victim of technological change and the company failed to respond to those changes fast enough. It was no longer a top business and replaced with something with a rosier future.[/quote]

So you're saying that the Dow is a manipulated index--if a company's future appears bleak just take it out of the index altogether, that way everything is always upbeat.

What happens when all the companies in the country experience declines in sales because the country is in a recession?  Is it wrong to conclude that stocks will go down because earnings go down?

Oh wait, I forgot.  Earnings never go down.  My bad.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]Has the Dow hit 12,000?[/quote]

Yes...but it was a short stay this morning.  Long enough to say the banker was right, though.

[quote=Indyone]

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]Has the Dow hit 12,000?[/quote]

Yes...but it was a short stay this morning.  Long enough to say the banker was right, though.

[/quote]

If you're playing tennis and have your opponent down five games to love, and forty love in the final game--but end up losing do you get credit for the win because you were close enough for a few minutes?

The Dow will be considered to have been at 12,000 if it closes there, until it does intraday celebrations are meaningless.

Is 12,000 going to become a support zone, next stop 20,000? 

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone][quote=Indyone]

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]Has the Dow hit 12,000?[/quote]

Yes...but it was a short stay this morning.  Long enough to say the banker was right, though.

[/quote]

If you're playing tennis and have your opponent down five games to love, and forty love in the final game--but end up losing do you get credit for the win because you were close enough for a few minutes?[/quote]

You might not have noticed this, Putsy, but unlike tennis, the market "game" never ends.

Why not have the grace to admit you were wrong and that the young whippersnapper was right? When he made his call the air was thick with "older, wiser" reps (who are now strangely quiet) giving lessons on how they were preparing for the coming decline and how everyone with a positive market outlook was a fool.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[quote=mikebutler222]

You might not have noticed this, Putsy, but unlike tennis, the market "game" never ends.

Why not have the grace to admit you were wrong and that the young whippersnapper was right? When he made his call the air was thick with "older, wiser" reps (who are now strangely quiet) giving lessons on how they were preparing for the coming decline and how everyone with a positive market outlook was a fool.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[/quote]

There are three ways to look at the Dow Industrials--the close, the intra-day high, and the theoretical high.

The standard by which it is measured is the close.  It has yet to close at 12,000.

If it does should we all just forget about the downside--there will never be a decline, so it's not necessary to consider defensive strategies?

Will a bell be rung to let us know when to sell?  Should we ever sell, or should we just hold on because earnings always go up so the market will always go up?

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

If it does should we all just forget about the downside--there will never be a decline, so it's not necessary to consider defensive strategies?[/quote]

Why change the subject to a strawman of your own creation, Putsy? No one ever said forget the downside.

Give the kid his due, you bitter old low-level management blood sucker.

[quote=mikebutler222]

Why change the subject to a strawman of your own creation, Putsy? No one ever said forget the downside.

[/quote]

Do you agree with the kid, that the Dow will NEVER decline 50%?

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

[quote=mikebutler222]

Why change the subject to a strawman of your own creation, Putsy? No one ever said forget the downside.

[/quote]

Do you agree with the kid, that the Dow will NEVER decline 50%?

[/quote]

He never said that.

Are you saying that it will never go to 20,000?  Or are you just rolling on the floor puking blood because you shorted the market?