Ditching Jury Duty

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doberman's picture
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Well, here I go again. I just received my "Jury Duty Summons" for October 24th. I thought I settled this last year when, upon receiving the summons, I declared myself self-employed and that it would represent a severe financial burden on my family to have to attend. (Not to mention the fact that if the market moves while I'm sequestered, what the hell are my clients supposed to do?)
Well, this time I'm going to declare that I'm self-employed..., again. And I'm also going to state that I believe in the right of "Jury Nullification" (JN). (JN) is a legal term that basically says that, in a criminal case, if the juror believes that the law (under which the defendant is charged with violating) is unconstitutional, then the juror can find the defendant not guilty.
When I brought up this term to an attorney, in public, he shushed me! Apparently, this is a term the legal profession does not want the public to be aware of. Defense attorneys are prohibited from mentioning this term in court, from what I gather. (By the way, I really do believe that the government should not regulate the behavior between 2 or more consenting adults.)
Anyone else have any suggestions for ditching jury duty? And please, spare me the "it's your patriotic duty to attend" argument. I'll be glad to attend when attorneys, doctors, teachers, nurses, etc. are also required to go.
Doberman- a registered, dues paying Libertarian Party member for 15 years. 
 

blarmston's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-26

Just go there, sit down, and about ten minutes in stand up and scream that you are racist, homophobic, sexist, and full of every imaginable prejudice. You'll be out of there within 15 minutes....

noggin's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

How about do your duty as a citizen you moron! I love your copout on the duty, I will do it when others are required to. Catch a clue, you live in a country where you apparently take your freedoms for granted and then when asked to do one simple thing, you want to beg off of it. I am certainly glad our forefathers didn't have your attitude. You are certainly a fine example of a citizen......

thetick's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-12

doberman wrote:
I'm also going to state that I believe in the right of "Jury Nullification" (JN). (JN) is a legal term that basically says that, in a criminal case, if the juror believes that the law (under which the defendant is charged with violating) is unconstitutional, then the juror can find the defendant not guilty.
When I brought up this term to an attorney, in public, he shushed me! Apparently, this is a term the legal profession does not want the public to be aware of. Defense attorneys are prohibited from mentioning this term in court, from what I gather. (By the way, I really do believe that the government should not regulate the behavior between 2 or more consenting adults.)

I have also heard that we don't have to pay taxes because the flag is a gold fringed maritime flag.
http://www.midcoast.com/~martucci/neva/fringe.html
I would do a little more research before I use the "Jury Nullification" excuse.

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

Having been on the other side of the process (picking the jurors) it is a fascinating process. I was personally involved in a jury trial as the plaintiff side. The questions asked, how the jurors responded and even their body language was an issue. We were trying to read their minds to see if they might be for or against our case. It was like playing an advanced game of chess with each attorney trying to make the best moves to get the jury that would be favorable to our cause. 
The jurors, not knowing what the heck the case was about, were sometimes confused by the questions.  But I can tell you that neither side wants a visibly angry and reluctant juror who is going to be pissed off at the entire proces.  However, sometimes a juror with strong political leanings can be desired. We were about a property dispute so your libertarian leanings would have made you an ideal juror.
On the other hand you could just sit here and grossly pick your nose and make rude body noises.  That might get you off.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

noggin wrote:How about do your duty as a citizen you moron! I love your copout on the duty, I will do it when others are required to. Catch a clue, you live in a country where you apparently take your freedoms for granted and then when asked to do one simple thing, you want to beg off of it. I am certainly glad our forefathers didn't have your attitude. You are certainly a fine example of a citizen......
 
I knew we'd agree on something  

menotellname's picture
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doberman wrote:
Any suggestions for ditching jury duty? And please, spare me the "it's your patriotic duty to attend" argument. I'll be glad to attend when attorneys, doctors, teachers, nurses, etc. are also required to go.
Doberman- a registered, dues paying Libertarian Party member for 15 years. 
 

 
Hmmmm...
I would hardly describe myself as a "patriot".  However, I was last called to jury duty a little less than ten years ago.  At the time I was going through law enforcement training and sent a letter to the clerk of courts explaining my situation and that I could not miss class or I would not graduate from the rookie school.  The clerk kindly sent me a response excusing me from jury duty.  I promptly got called again about 3 months later, after I had finished my training.  I sent a letter explaining that I felt my duty was to "protect and serve" out on the streets and that I would be in the court room for my cases.  The clerk of court disagreed.  They scheduled my jury duty in the middle of my "long week" (five 12 hour shifts in one week).
Long story, short.  I went.  Served.  Was selected as part of a jury for a civil trial.  During questioning from the plantiff's attorney my occupation was revealed.  As such, the other members of the jury selected me as foreman.
Only in America...right Mr. Butler?
 

doberman's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

noggin: How about do your duty as a citizen you moron! I love your copout on the duty, I will do it when others are required to. Catch a clue, you live in a country where you apparently take your freedoms for granted and then when asked to do one simple thing, you want to beg off of it. I am certainly glad our forefathers didn't have your attitude. You are certainly a fine example of a citizen......
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I am a fine example of a citizen.
If jury duty is so important, why isn't everyone required (oops, asked) to serve?
I take my freedoms for granted? If I don't show-up for jury duty, people with guns will come looking for me. That's freedom? They are not (as you have stated) asking me to serve, they are requiring me to serve at gunpoint.
I don't recall our forefathers forcing people, at gunpoint, to serve as jurors.
As for the concept of "jury nullification", there isn't a damn thing they can do about it. If a person has been charged with violating a law I believe to be unconstitutional, I will find him/her innocent. Neither the judge or police can force a juror to arrive at a particular verdict.
As long as your behavior and/or activity doesn't hurt anyone else, have at it. That, my friend, (in a nutshell) is freedom.

doberman's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

blarmston: Just go there, sit down, and about ten minutes in stand up and scream that you are racist, homophobic, sexist, and full of every imaginable prejudice. You'll be out of there within 15 minutes....
---------------------------------
Maybe I should wear my Green Beret t-shirt that states:
Kill'em all, let God sort'em out. 

noggin's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Doberman- That has got to be the weakest argument I have ever heard..... My 22 month old daughter makes more sense... By the way, I have recieved a jury summons and unlike Mr FINE citizen will actually want to serve. The country I belong to actually had people who ACTUALLY endured financial burdens so that this country would be a better place for their fellow citizens. You CAN'T even sit in a courtroom for a week...... I hope that you don't reproduce....

executivejock's picture
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Joined: 2005-06-29

Say you are a big Rush Limbaugh fan.. He says this works.

doberman's picture
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noggin:That has got to be the weakest argument I have ever heard..... My 22 month old daughter makes more sense...
Doberman: I would suggest that you look-up the definition of freedom, then tell me where in the term "summons for jury duty" I have the freedom to opt out.
Noggin: By the way, I have recieved a jury summons and unlike Mr FINE citizen will actually want to serve.
Doberman: Good for you. I hope the market and/or your clients' investments don't take an unexpected tumble while you're sitting for a divorce case because the husband couldn't keep it in his pants.
noggin: The country I belong to actually had people who ACTUALLY endured financial burdens so that this country would be a better place for their fellow citizens. You CAN'T even sit in a courtroom for a week...... I hope that you don't reproduce....
Doberman: A week of sitting for a jury would cost me at least $10,000, plus opportunity costs. That's not a financial commitment? And who says it would only be for a week? What if I end up on a jury hearing about some rich, white guy (Example: Michael Jackson ) who is charged with molesting boys? That could take months!  
Before lecturing me on freedom, be sure to check the definition first. 

doberman's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

executivejock: Say you are a big Rush Limbaugh fan.. He says this works.
-----------------------------------------------
Hey, I like that!  But I prefer Glenn Beck, who broadcasts out of Philadelphia. That guy is a hoot!!

cend's picture
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Joined: 2005-08-18

Doberman,
Were you born in this country? It's abundantly clear you're clueless in addition to being painfully selfish and self absorbed. Please do me a favor and stay away from the southern states.
By the way...are you sure you're not a lawyer???  You know...what's brown and black and looks good on an attorney?  Answer: A doberman.  Noggin, you're right, what a moron.

derekgaddy's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-18

Doberman let me guess - you're a member of the ACLU? You're a moron. This is a registered rep. board don't you have anything else to do other than bother people you don't even know about jury duty.

Player's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-08

It's your duty JERK.....GO DO IT!

doberman's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

Clearly, most everyone who previously posted, looked up "freedom" in the dictionary and are conceding that I'm right, since no one has taken issue with me on this point. Instead, they have chosen to question my patriotism in their own colorful, emotional, logic-lacking way.
My patriotism extends only to the point at which I am no longer free. If your patriotism extends beyond that, then you are in good company with the Nazi's, the Communists and our lastest edition of freedom haters - religious fanatics. And before someone else, who barely passed U.S. history, responds with a rant-filled post questioning my loyalties, please review your dusty history books. You'll find that our forefathers authorized the people to change any oppressive government.
Unless someone else presents facts to back their opinions, this will be my last post on this subject.

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

Ok, this has nothing to do with this topic but I can't stand it any more!!!!
Their = belongs to them   "It is their right to be obtuse"
There = over there, not here  "There is the biggest idiot of all."
They're= they are,  a contraction "They're not going to believe a word you say."
Your = belonging to you  "Your ass is on the line."
You're = another contraction = You are   "You're totally confused."
And while I'm at it---- site and sight and scene and seen are not the same things.   Sight is the ability to physically see something  Site is a place.  Web site = a place on the web, not a thing you see on the Web  There is a scene in the movie.  I have seen that scene in the movie.
Loose and lose are not the same. Loose is the opposite of tight. and Lose is what you get when you go to Las Vegas. 
God help us!  If you are going to be arguing about anything at least be literate.  You can't be credible if you are unable to write a coherent sentence.
Exceptions made for typos  --- and for typing tipsy.

Starka's picture
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"Where public spirit prevails, liberty is secure."
                                           ---George Washington

doberman's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

rrbdlawyer:
I know I shouldn't but this one is driving me nuts . . .
Doberman, you say folks should base their opinions on facts.  Fine, I'll take up that challenge because your facts are wrong.  You started this thread off complaining that lawyers don't get call for jury duty.
My friend, let me give you a newsflash.  I have been called twice in the last four years... 
----------------------------------------------------
I live in South Georgia. Attorneys don't get called for jury duty. Neither do teachers, nurses, doctors, or government workers.
I'm self-employed. I could suffer serious financial setbacks and/or lose my business, if I'm stuck on some bonehead case for any length of time. And I'm willing to bet that not one of you (who question my patriotism) would be willing to suffer the same. So, rant and rave all you want, I know the truth.

Starka's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Is your business model so fragile that two weeks of not being in the office during weekdays would cause you irreperable harm???  A bad cold can last longer than that, and you would be too sick to work at night.
Stay out of drafts.

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

When we were in the midst of our jury trial, the teachers (there were two in the pool) were automatically excused because school was in session and one of them was a special ed teacher. I guess they felt the disruption to the "challenged" students would be too much. Also dismissed was a long haul independent truck driver who would lose his contracts if he couldn't haul for a few days.  Government workers who might have knowledge of our case were also excused.   A pregnant lady who was about to pop was excused because the judge didn't want to see her give birth in the jury box.
Other than that we had a smattering of self employed people, retired people, employees of other companies and unemployed students.  I'm sure it was a huge inconvenience for all of them to be there for so long. Our trial took 4 weeks.  It was a huge inconvenience for myself and my husband who are also both self employed. Financially it cost us a lot, as I'm sure it did the jurors.  We felt that they all took our little case very seriously and were grateful for that.  As I said before, the entire process was fascinating and something that I hope never to repeat.
And Sonnyboy, I don't correct people's speech. However, when you write something, people (not just you) should know some of the basics.  We can't look you in the face on the internet or when you send a letter to someone, but your grammer, or lack of, is a reflection of you.  Sure people make mistakes in spelling and grammer. After all we are only human and are in a hurry to post.  You were complaining about the LOL, ROFLMAO, BTW, and other l33t sP34k in this forum as being childish and out of place.  We are "supposed" to be financial professionals and as such we should hold ourselves to a higher standard and at least know the difference between your and you're.
End of Ms. Grammer rant

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

Ok So I can't spell grammar.    I just proved my own point.

executivejock's picture
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I thought is was grammer.

babbling looney's picture
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It isn't just this board.  This is just my pet peeve and favorite hoppy horse. You guys have really very good writing skills.  I worry about the younger generation though.  Some of the crap you read on the game boards is just terrible (yes I admit to the guilt of playing on line games. ) .  They don't even try to write in any recognizable form of English and furthermore they don't care.  I fear for them when it comes time to write up their resumee or fill out a job application.   
It's a small thing when we are fooling around here, but unfortunately people who were educated beginning in the 70's and especially more recently in the 80' and 90's, have no idea  how to write, much less use math skills. Don't get me started on the appalling lack of knowledge about history. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/05/10/histo ry.scores.ap/  Years ago when I was an officer at a bank branch, we had a  hell of a time trying to find anybody who could write a decent letter or even count change back to the customers!! 
It's no wonder the country is falling apart and things don't get done.  We have raised a generation of boobs!

Starka's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Starka wrote:
"Where public spirit prevails, liberty is secure."
                                           ---George Washington

errata..
The author of this quote was actually Noah Webster, and not George Washington.
My apologies.

ezmoney's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

F@$k jury duty! ..........Let's get back to a real topic!

Duke#1's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-06

Doberman, as Starka said, if you're afraid of the hurt to your business by serving, then you're already in trouble.  Don't you have any staff support?  Don't you have a cell phone?  Don't you have a laptop?  Don't you have a strong enough relationship with your clients who will understand that you won't be as readilly available as normal?  Aren't you with a strong enough b/d where they can provide support in your absence?  (I'm self-employed as an indy, and my b/d has desks of registered home office service associates who can take trades from clients for me, answer client questions, etc. during absences.) Sure, you'll be inconvenienced, but your practice should be organized enough where you can attend to pressing business matters in the early AM, lunch breaks, & in the evening.
What do you do when you go on vacation?  Or is your business so fragile that you can't even do that?
And, freedom comes with a price.  Part of that price is carrying out our responsibilities as citizens.  Besides wanting to dodge jury duty, I guess you also don't pay taxes!

zacko's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

So....no one's gonna help the poor guy out then?  I was sorta hoping for a long list of good excuses I could use to help avoid doing whatever I could.

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

Ok here are some...
This is my Federal Inmate number...that will stop them cold.
I have to report to my parole officer weekly. Is this thing going to take long?
My mom/child/wife/husband/dog is tied to the bed and if I can't be home to feed her/him/it at least every other day she /he/it is going to starve.
Can I bring my kidney dialysis machine into the jury box?
You know Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pott/Kazinski had the right idea!!!  (Mutter this really loudly and often, and make sure your eyes bug out and the veins in your forhead look like they are going to pop.)
Exibit Tourette's Syndrome.  Random outburst of profanities and severe body ticks.
Actually some real excuses. 
"I will lose my job if the trial is longer than X days." You do have to prove this.  Can't make it up.  Just experiencing financial difficulties is not going to cut it.  It has to be catastrophic.  For ex. you can't make the house payment because you are living paycheck to paycheck and you will lose your home.  I doubt that us successful stock broker types are going to believed if that was the excuse.....even if it could be true
You have a baby/small child and don't have any child care available or can't afford to hire a babysitter.  Single parents can use this one.
You have a child or other dependent with physical disabilities that needs you to be there daily and hourly for personal medical assistance.
You have a physical disability and can't sit for very long.  You need a note from your doctor just like High School. 
You have an operation scheduled and it cannot be put off or rescheduled.  Note required.
And of course the standard question: Do you know someone who is involved with the trial and therefore cannot be objective?  or "Do you know anything about the issue coming up for trial that would predjudice you?"  In our trial, because we are a small area and the issue was fairly well known, a lot of jurors got off on that one.
 
 

doberman's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

"Only The Paranoid Survive" - Quote from the former head of Intel (I've forgotten his name).
Oh yeah, I'm paranoid about my business. It's what gives me the juice to get up out of bed every morning. It's what tells me to exercise at 5AM and be at my desk by 6:30AM. It's what tells me to read several quality several newspapers every day to know more than my clients. I don't play golf or have any other hobbies. My clients don't pay me to waste time, they pay me to know this stuff.
Oh sure, a day or two in jury duty won't hurt my business. But can you guarantee only a day or two? Ever hear of cases going on for weeks? Months? Grand juries, down here, go on for weeks, typically. I can't take the chance of "maybe" I'll get lucky and only get tied-up for a day of two. I'm not taking any chances. I'm going to try and nip this jury duty thing in the bud.
Cell phones and laptops are not allowed to be possessed by jurors. You are cut-off from the outside world.
If I am still required to show-up for jury duty, I have one final ace to play, in hopes of shortening my forced attendance and it's the legal term: jury nullification (Google it). Just stating that I believe in the term (which I really do), should get me thrown off many cases. Maybe I'll get a reputation as a troublemaker and they won't ask me back!
 

noggin's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Doberman- Give it a rest moron...

Starka's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Hey,boy.  Vietnam put a two year dent in my plans.  Longer than that, for many of us.  The difference being that we all had a sense of honor and duty, while you clearly do not.
So stop snivellin', and suck it up.
Sheesh.  Two weeks.  Some hardship.

frumhere's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

i didn't read the whole thread, but i just don't respond and if anything comes up in my life, i just say i never received it

doberman's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

noggin: Doberman- Give it a rest moron...
----------------------------------------
Hmmm, me a moron? Who continues to click on this category and read the posts? And you're telling me to give it a rest? If I stopped posting, you might have get back to work! 

noggin's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Doberman- Look at the time stamp....

frumhere's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

Gulp.  Does this mean I will need to start to pay taxes as well?

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-31

My sister, an orthodontist, received a jury summons a few years back.  She recalled from a jurisprudence class or seminar(?) that dentists and veterinarians are exempt in our state because most of them are sole practitioners (oddly enough, doctors are not exempt here).  She had a phone conversation with the clerk about this and the clerk advised her that she wasn't exempt.  After discussing the situation with another attorney from her dental school and being again advised that she was exempt, she made a decision to keep all of her appointments and not show for duty.  Her husband, not being the sharpest crayon in the box, went down to the courthouse and proceeded to get in a shouting match with the clerk, informing her that the judge did not make the law, but rather enforced the law.
The judge, overhearing the conversation, became incensed about having his authority questioned and the next thing my sister knew, a deputy was standing in her clinic demanding that she come with him.  She was held in a small room connected to the courtroom and guarded by the deputy from 9:00 am until about 12:30, like a hardened criminal.  I forgot to mention that she was about halfway through a pregnancy at the time.
At any rate, when the jury was selected, the judge finally called her out and proceeded to lecture her about her civic duty.  At this point, she was humiliated and crying and explained to the judge why she did not appear.  The judge (erroneously as it turned out) told her that the exemption had been repealed.  Turns out that the exemption still exists today and sis reports happily now that she's never received a summons again.
The moral of this story?  Don't screw with the judge, even if you know he's wrong...and don't show your dimbulb spouse your jury summons...

frumhere's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

Lawyer...I guess you did not take "Sarcasm 101" in law school.  Lighten up.

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